The Plow guy hit it.

[paulsoccodato]

I need some advice. I plow several apartment complexes, and twice this season, I've had two different management companies tell me that one of my trucks has hit one of the tenants cars.
I'm fully insured, I employ experienced drivers, who are also cautious while plowing. Accidents do happen, I understand that, but how can I possibly protect myself from b/s claims? If my driver says they haven't hit anything, and I have a tenant who says I did, and they have damage to their car, who's to say? I would not admit guilt to anything that we didn't do, but I did not see anything, nor did the tenants.

I'm really at a loss with this and I'm at my wits end with it. I do believe that honesty is the best policy, but where does it end? Pretty soon every car with a scratch is going to be the plow guys fault? How can issues like this be resolved without looking like a scumbag in the eyes of the management company? I can argue with these tenants until I'm blue in the face, you did it, I didn't do it, That doesn't work.

So what Then?

[hlntoiz]

Deny, deny, deny. They have to prove it was you. Line up the dents on the cars to the areas of the truck. etc. CSI stuff!

[Plow Dak]

Paul
Unfortunately that's the nature of our times.

blame it someone else. The only thing i can think of is if there are cameras to view that could help. But you can't admit to anything just because someone said you did something. Unless they can prove it and not just say you did it they don't have a leg to stand on.

I was accused of something similar with the flat bed. Said i backed into a car. Never did. Wasn't even in the same area of the lot. They insisted i did. said they saw me. boss asked me and i said if i did i would have told you. Went to the neighborhood asking about cameras, found one on another building pointing to the parking lot. Guy was real nice and let us scan the video. Car was never touched and you can barely see the nose of my truck.
no apology, no nothing.

It's a parking lot..... It's snowing. People don't clean off there cars, they back up. BANG and drive away without a second thought.

Unless they find hard evidence, you got to stand your ground.

If you roll over every time a issue like this comes along you won't have insurance any more.

[JD PLOWER]

Originally Posted by hlntoiz

Deny, deny, deny. They have to prove it was you. Line up the dents on the cars to the areas of the truck. etc. CSI stuff!

I'm with Matt on this. You could be responsible for everyone that has an accident during a storm or even after a storm if you're not careful. We put in all our contracts that any claims made about damage to personal property of tenants, customers or guests must be made within 48 hours after cessation of snowfall, and that any claims made after that time frame are the responsibility of the property owners/managers. Does it prevent people form filing claims? No. It's just one more thing we put in the way of all the people looking to run a scam that we point out to our insurance company. Some insurance companies will pay almost every claim that comes their way and then expect you to pay in higher premiums. Run from these companies. Your fight isn't with the tenant, it’s with the insurance company. Luckily for us many of the places we plow now have camera's attached to the exteriors of the buildings so now it's "lets go to the tape time" for most claims.

[cat320]

I agree with Matt and JD first they have to prove it if you can line up the damage match paint or what ever if they didn't see it who is to say it happened there and if they did see it why didn't they go up to the truck and say hey you just hit my car ? marks on a car could of happened at any place. deny and have them prove it.

[OSCLandscaping]

Some will be obvious that it wasn't caused by you, those, stand firm with the management company, that it wasn't you.

The others I would turn over to your insurance company and let them fight it out. This is another reason we don't constantly price shop insurance. We have been with the same company for 20 years, they know our record and they know we are professional, and I expect the same from them. They don't just pay every claim that comes across their desk, if I tell them we didn't do it they thoroughly investigate it.

I will every couple of years compare our #'s with several other carriers and this company has always been with in a couple of % of other reputable companies.

[T-Zab]

Do you trust your drivers ?
I would ask my driver point blank if he hit something, and in the same breath casually mention there is a camera. If he stands his ground, after being given an out, I would go after the person filing the claim. I would make the Management company aware that you plan to file a civil case to recover any, and "all damages" that you incur against the person filing the claim. **** em, if they want to play hardball, so can you...

[BSDeality]

just as was said. Deny it and bring the truck with plow over and see if it lines up. Look for paint transfer too.

We have an ex client who fired me (when I was a solo op) for running into her light pole (8' off the driveway). She called me up yelling and screaming how could you have hit it! I said no way I hit anything, told her i would definitely remember hitting an aluminum light pole hard enough to crease it and knock it down. I hooked the plow up and went over to her house, no chance my plow could hit it, the dent was too high and there was black paint on it (yellow plows) Told her to ask her garbage man or anyone else she could think of with a big truck. Still got fired though, guess she didn't like to be proven wrong.

[hlntoiz]

Originally Posted by T-Zab

I would make the Management company aware that you plan to file a civil case to recover any, and "all damages" that you incur against the person filing the claim. **** em, if they want to play hardball, so can you...

"Slander" right? problem is you have to prove losses. Just playing devils advocate.

[AmerilawnOfWisconsin]

Maybe you could ask other tennants if they saw anything? I was able to help out the guys that plow my complex a few years ago just because I happened to be looking out the window. Plow truck was waiting to back up but stopped and some hot shot in a car is coming along too fast and needlessly swerved and nailed a big boulder along the road. The driver claimed the plow truck was backing up into the road and he had to swerve off the road to avoid hitting him. When the police showed up I was able to set the record straight since I happened to see the whole thing.

[Chuck Smith]

People are idiots. When you hit things that don't move, you are an idiot. When I lived in a condo I can't tell you how many times in a winter another tennant backed into my plow. I even had one that was parked next to my truck that was backed into a space. I saw the can opener effect and yellow paint on the car, and my plow was slightly angled. Never heard a word about it, but I know what happened. Used to find the blade moved slightly all the time, and if it sat long enough, the rust line from the edge would be at a different angle than the blade after a hit.

The rust line here at the shop was a dead giveaway that somebody hit the plow on my Brother's beater out in the lot.

My landlord has a fleet of vans, and last winter I had 5 trucks here for repairs on the plows, overnight. I ended up parking some of them down near his end of the lot, I backed them in to spaces. Two of the trucks had 9' blades on them.

A couple of days later one of the guys asks me if a crease on one of the vans looked like a plow did it, not really. No paint/powdercoat transfer onto the the white van.... Found out a week later one of the idiots backed into those 9' blades early one morning in the dark. Never told me either. Good thing the plow he hit was pretty beat up already. It is just the point. People hit things that don't move.

I was doing a landscape job at my uncle's house years ago, and had a mini excavator there. He has a circular drive. I had it off to the side, running, forget what I was doing.... His wife comes out and gets in her car, and backs into the excavator track! She pulls up, gets out, looks at it and the damage, gets back in the car, and misjudges it again, and hit the track again in a different place! I ran over and moved the machine. It was on the grass, and she was on the pavement. Not sure why she hit it, but she is a blonde! People get used to things being a certain way where they park, they are habitual.

Years ago my Brother came home, and was going right back out, I forget why. He pulled in the driveay, ran in the house, and got ready, or did whatever he came home to do. The landscaper shows up across the street. Leaves a 5 x 10 trailer at the end of our driveway across the street, with a yard or so of mulch in it. Black trailer, black mulch, no cones, not hooked up to the truck. My Brother comes running out of the house, jumps in his truck, backs out of the driveway in a hurry, and rams the trailer up onto the lawn! LMAO, the guy's son was standing there and watched it, he was rolling when my brother got out and yelled at him for leaving the trailer there. Then they both had a good laugh. The guy never parked at the end of our drive again. He also got a new trailer My brother was driving his 79 Sno-Commander when he hit it.

So my point is people hit parked plows and equipment all the time in parking areas, probably more often than plows hit parked cars IMO. People are just too embarrassed to take the blame for being idiots! Years ago my buddy's wife came home from work with a gash in the side of her 83 Cutlass, almost at the roofline! My buddy flipped, and she didn't know where it came from. He figured it out. She parked next to the dumpster at work, and when she backed out, she caught the "pipe with the huge washer on the end" where the dumpster locks in on the back of the garbage truck to be dumped.

~Chuck

[paulsoccodato]

Ive been doing this for a long time now, and just like Dak said, this is the nature of our times. It just gets worse every season. I do go through the obvious "csi" analysis, lining up dents, looking at the scaratched paint, etc.. Lets face it, a plow blade does a certain type of damage, and thats easy to spot.

I do trust my drivers, and they do call and tell me whats going on at each account. I have even gotten to the point of putting a digital camera in each truck, so they can take pictures, if need be.

I dont know of any other way of fixing this problem, other than having the property manager sit in the truck with you, as you service the acount. This type of stuff just takes the "taste" out of this business.

[T-Zab]

Originally Posted by hlntoiz

"Slander" right? problem is you have to prove losses. Just playing devils advocate.

Losses include lost work, legal fee's, and pain and suffering
The slander could be a bonus.
Point I am trying to make is if the want to play games, I am more then willing to fling crap right back in there face.
I am always more then happy to pay an attorney to fight (when you know your in the right) then to rollover for some douche bag lunch grabber...

[mhoff65]

We do the college lots in town and we try to set up a time where everyone must move there cars so we can come in and clean the lot. It put an end to every ding being our fault. Might not work for every place every time but it is worth the coordination effort. And as far as putting a digital camera in the truck you are on the right track but to be better off use those one time use kodak cameras. With a digital image someone can say that the photo has been altered but not with the throw away 35mm.

[Assured Services]

Originally Posted by mhoff65

We do the college lots in town and we try to set up a time where everyone must move there cars so we can come in and clean the lot. It put an end to every ding being our fault. Might not work for every place every time but it is worth the coordination effort. And as far as putting a digital camera in the truck you are on the right track but to be better off use those one time use kodak cameras. With a digital image someone can say that the photo has been altered but not with the throw away 35mm.

In this day and age most cars in apartment complexes never move or could not move without a tow truck if they had the $$.
Many don't have jobs and the rent is based of there income that comes from you and I. (HUD Housing) They are looking for a free lunch. These are the kind of tools that are calling the mgt co.
Have the owners of the junkers made police reports on the damages?

Scott

[empire]

You can deniey it but I had a lady pull me over on an exit ramp and say that a rock hit her windsheild I am a roofer and had no rocks in my truck. my insurance just paid it to shut her up but to this day I know it wasnt me or my rock there was no rock in my truck I was empty and never hauled dirt or fill or anything that would have rocks in it they know how to get paid, shingle pieces wont crack a windsheld.

[empire]

well i take that back about the shingle peices the small dust from shingles would never crack a windshield. thats all that was in my truck.no actual piecces noting bigger than 1 inch but they payed her i told the adjuster that she was full of it but it probably would have cost more to fight it.

[BHISNOWMAN]

Start installing dash camcorders Video, Exact time and GPS included.
www.buswerksinc.com

[TommyMac]

Originally Posted by empire

You can deniey it but I had a lady pull me over on an exit ramp and say that a rock hit her windsheild I am a roofer and had no rocks in my truck. my insurance just paid it to shut her up but to this day I know it wasnt me or my rock there was no rock in my truck I was empty and never hauled dirt or fill or anything that would have rocks in it they know how to get paid, shingle pieces wont crack a windsheld.

Crap flies off your tires & cracks windshields....I drive a tri-axle dump & one day going to the asphalt plant just as I'm pulling onto the highway one of the studs broke & off came flying the nut & dog right into the windshield of the car behind me, cracking the windshield real bad, lucky the windshield didnt shatter

[Dwan]

You pay for insurance for a reason. Sleep at night and let them take care of it. Tell them you did not do it and that is all you have to do. If they raise you insurance find a different co. to deal with. You are the one with the money and they want it.