Blizzard Vs. Vee Plow

[GeeMC]

Hello Everyone!

Wow...I just re-found you guy's tonight. Nice to see familiar names:waving

What happened?

Anyway, we are a few storms away from buying our second rig and was looking for some input for a plow. The truck will either be a 3/4 or 1 ton (still researching) and be used mostly for lots and maybe some town and city work. We will continue to use the 1/2 ton for residential work.

I was considering a v-plow but someone recommended a Blizzard 810 and after looking at thier site, was wondering how well the expandable wings held up. Just trying to weight the differences.

Thanks,

Bruce

[Lazer Man]

Go with the Blizzard 810, you will be glad you did. Great plow, while ours has only one storm under it's belt I'd give it a thumbs up. Moves tons of snow. Just do a search or check out the Blizzard section below on the main forums page.

Bob :D :D :burnout :burnout

[GeeMC]

Something from the past tells me these are/were problematic though. No doubt they can move allot of snow and reduce time, but reliability is a concern for me. One because the only dealer around here is an hour away and two because of higher costs associated to repairs.

Does anyone have a ballpark price for the 810?

Thanks,

Bruce

[PineIsland]

We bought two 810's at an early season price in the fall of $3750 installed. Average around here is $4200- $4400 installed.

Do a search on ******** if you need to to see the history of our Blizzard issues and others. Suffice it to say, even knowing the history of the early ones, we feel confident the company has responded and greatly improved the original design, and fixed the problems. The advantage definately is there over any other plow design for large jobs.

We felt confident enough in them to buy two this season.

[PineIsland]

2

[4evergreenlawns]

Tom,

That is funny you say there were problems only because how everyone is saying how great the plows are even with the draw back that if you do not buy one in April you will not have one in November. They look great but that is also what I thought about the Vee Pro 8000. Can you just share a quick list of what the problems were and do they still exist? I am really thinking about getting a 8611, and a 810.

BTW nice to see you over at SIMA I just joined.

[PineIsland]

Well, there were some 1999 plows I believe that had poor design on the wings, and were getting tweaked when hitting something, and actuall bending parts. I dont remember all of the details of the inner workings of the old wing style, but they listened and fixed the problems. Same thing with an old issue of ice/packed snow/gravel getting into the channels, they seemed to have made improvements to eliminate that. The old hydro setup was apparently much tougher to get at to work on, ,,etc....

Though I hate to recommend anyone go to ********, since it really sucks lately, you could do a search and see some of my old pics of the problems.

I honestly believe that they have solved those problems, and last year I know of 7 Blizzards run by personal friends who all had nothing but good to say of the plow.

My sub who had the old 810 with problems, replace it with an 8611 on his F350. It is quite a rig ! He sure can produce....

The supply issue I think is probably pretty common for young companies, who obviously have a hard time predicting demand. I dont hold it against them, but if the problem still exists 5 years from now, then I will wonder if its intentional....

[Pelican]

I was one of the first to buy a Blizzard from the other site, even after all the nay saying I encountered. First time out, it saved me 2 hours off a 12 hour run, that being totally unfamiliar with the controls and new truck. Since then I've shaved off another 2 hours after learning how to use the plow to its full potential.

I blew a couple hoses in that time by hitting raised basins, and cracked the wing moldboard as well. I blame this on driver error, any plow would have had damage from the shots I gave the plow, in fact I was surpised that was the only damage.

I never had any failure whatsoever with the pump/manifold assembly, the most complex part of the plow. It worked immediately every time I hooked up. This is the area the early plows had problems and started a poor reputation for Blizzard. The manifolds are outsourced and their original contractor had poor quality control, resulting in a number of faulty units. Blizzard has since changed contractors and gone through one redesign of the manifold and have eliminated the quality problems. They've also increased the pump capacity for a faster operating plow.

They've also redesigned the wing assembly for this year, eliminating 2 pistons and the 4 hoses that serviced them. These were the wing tilt pistons and were a bear to replace hoses on. This was a shop job, not something to be performed in the field. Now they don't exist and the plow functions as well as before.

The manifold is also the limiting factor in production numbers. Since it is outsourced, they try to anticipate the number that they'll need, but once the manifolds are used up, they can not produce any more plows for the season. For the jobber to retool the machines again for a short run of manifolds would make the plow too expensive for sale. Last I heard Blizzard was investigating making the manifolds in house.

If you look at the structure of the Blizzard, it's boxed steel, similar to what modern heavy equipment uses in their construction. In fact, another division of Blizzard makes dozer blades of the same design to fit D5 and D6 sized dozers, so the concept is proven.

Even with the few problems I've had, I'd buy another Blizzard for the time savings. I'm finished plowing 4 hours earlier, and customers have remarked at how well the plow cleans up. It's easier on me and my truck than the straight blade I had, this adds up to a better overall procedure with less fatigue.

I can't report vs. a V, but I was considering the purchase of a Boss V before I discovered the Blizzard.

[Bonzai]

Hi, GeeMc
I just bought a Blizzard 810 this year and have only used it a couple of times but I can tell you that this is a fantastic plow and time saver. We run 8 MVP plows so I can talk from expeience that the time savings are substantial and this plow cleans snow way better then any V plow. V plows always seem to leave more snow on the asphalt then straight blades which requires more salt to get rid of it. The Blizzard also back drags great, this plow has such a steep attack angle that a back drag edge is not required. We do 800 driveways each snow storm and this, not cleaning well of the V plow, has always been a thorn in my side. Hope this helps you in your decision. :drinkup

[NovaLC]

Originally posted by Bonzai
We do 800 driveways each snow storm

omg Holy crap, leave some for the rest of us! :D:salute

[Bonzai]

Hey Nova
All of our driveways are townhouse complexes, some have 200 in one complex:eek: Plus we do all the lanes also. Sounds worse then it is it takes us 4-5 hours to do all the drives in a normal storm, not to bad. I think I saw you the other day at Bayview and Weldrick, I recognized the truck.:burnout

[NovaLC]

Originally posted by Bonzai
Hey Nova
All of our driveways are townhouse complexes, some have 200 in one complex:eek: Plus we do all the lanes also. Sounds worse then it is it takes us 4-5 hours to do all the drives in a normal storm, not to bad. I think I saw you the other day at Bayview and Weldrick, I recognized the truck.:burnout

That's not bad at all. It takes me 4-6 hours to do 50 driveways.

Bayview & Weldrick, that's my area, but I don't remember being up there except on Monday. Anyway, I assume you do the complex at Bayview/7? I used to pass an enclosed Bonzai trailer on Bayview a few times a week during the summer. I can't remember what kind of truck was pulling it because that trailer really gets your attention!

[Honest Mike]

Wow, 8 trucks do 800 driveways? :eek: Thats alot, that means, if you average it out, that each truck is doing 100 driveways each storm. Must be a nice account to have, a real money maker. :cash Mike :shades

[Snowtime]

Tom

you have a sub that has an 8611 on a f350?

[PineIsland]

Yep ! It's quite the rig ! He sold it this summer, much to my dismay, and then yesterday I found out the guy he sold it to is a friend from church, who is in construction, and doesn't plow commercially, so maybe..... I will still have it in "the fleet" this year ?

[Snowtime]

The 350 held up with that plow on it. How did it push? Any extra springs or timbrins? Or if you know what rear end did it have in it?

[Pelican]

Jerre Heyer and Mike Nelson both run the 8611 on their F-350s. Give them a shout!

[urethane dino]

Bottom line is this, if you want to put a plow on truck this season unless you look long and hard, you will be hard pressed to find a blizzard. Come april you will up to your armpits in blizzard plows, but that doesnt help ayone right now does it. If you really want one, look into an area of the country that hasnt seen alot of snow yet, and pay for the shipping out east. I still dont understand the reasoning from blizzard to short the market. Its not like the valve bodies have a shelf life. Will they go bankrupt if thy have an extra 100-200 valve bodies on the shelf.
Can you imagine telling your ustomer I cant plow your lot, I underestimated the amount of snow we were going to get, and so I cant plow anymore. It i just ludicris. All the other plow makers including meyer are still making plows.
That all being said, look into the fisher x blade or western pro plus. Get some wings and go plow some snow. Lets face it, any plow is more effecient than no plow.
Blizzard = no plow right now
See youn the spring with truck loads of them.
Dino

[Snowtime]

It's not a problem of getting an 8611. I have 3 in stock. I was just curious on how the 350 that Pineisland sub's pushed with it on.

[urethane dino]

I was responding to Bruce's question, however it is good to know that some blizzards are still avaiable.
Dino

[mikegamb]

Snowtime


your a blizzard dealer???


if so are there any Ford dealerships you deal with directly.the dealer im working with only works with new haven body.which means i can only get a crapy fisher blade

[urethane dino]

Mike your ford ealer can work with anyone you like.Its still your money, through ford, so just let them know what you want.
Dino

[GeeMC]

Wow! Thanks for all the responses guy’s. Some great stuff here.


PineIsland: Thanks for the info. I’ll search out your threads. BTW, nice pic. Big truck, big plow, little boat!

Pelican: Are you still using the original plow you purchased?

Is there a speed/quill adjustment in the new design? I read somewhere that Blizzard plows have slow hydraulics, or at least used to.

In your opinion, how is it easier on your truck than a straight blade?

Do the scoop operations on the wings operate independently or together?

Bonzai: Thanks for the comparison. Cleanup was one of the issues I was concerned about with the mvp.

Dino: We are considering the X-blade also as a straight blade alternative. It has a better attack angle than the regular duty plows, but aren’t they real pricy? Have not looked at that yet.

If there is a supply issue and have to wait then so be it, if this plow turns out to be the one we want. Still got to look for a truck. I’m putting the cart before the horse so to speak. :D

Thanks Again,

Bruce

[Crimedog]

Bruce, the wings operate independently, which is where the 810 really shines, when windrowing. You pivot the leading wing forward, and extend the trailing wing, and you can move more snow than you can shake a stick at!
IMO the only advantage a V has over the Blizzard is busting through big drifts, however in MN, most of our snows are less than 6", with an occasional big storm. Buy, if you are really getting hammered, just plow with the storm. The cleanup is SOOOOO nice with the Blizzard.
Good Luck

[Snowtime]

Dino, by the way I sent you an e-mail . I need to talk to you about a u-edge.

[Pelican]

GeeMC, I had taken my plow to Jerre Heyer to have some upgrades done and the cracked wing repaired, someone made him an offer on my plow while it was there that we couldn't refuse. I have a new plow this season with all the upgrades installed and then some over what I wanted done.

The drop rate can be adjusted, and with the larger pump, the hydraulic speeds are just fine. I think they rival that of the Boss plows, pretty quick.

Crimedog explained the wing function, and with it in the position he describes you only need to make a 6" overlap on consecutive passes with no spillover. It really speeds things up! Plus, you don't have to go back and clean up your trailings.

How is it easier on my truck? I'm doing the same amount of work in 4 hours less time! Some might say the time I am working the truck is working harder with the bigger blade, but it doesn't seem to take any more power to push this plow at 10 than it does at 8', at least in fluffy snow.

[Honest Mike]

Mike, I take it you dont like Fisher plows? Why do you say they are crappy? I thought Fishers were good plows, I never did own one though, so I cant back that comment up, but I do like them. Mike :)

[90plow]

The blizzard is great if there is a dealer nearby that can give support espeacially if you don't have another truck that is on the same route. I wouldn't buy a plow that I can't have serviced in the middle of the storm or at least find parts for.
JMO
Eric

[ratlover]

Outa curiosity......dose the blizzard like to trip if one or both of the wings are in the scoop position? Like if you are windrowing and have the leading edge scooped and the trailing edge just extended?

[Pelican]

Not sure what you mean by "like to trip". Can you clarify?

[mikegamb]

mike


i like full trip plows only.not a big fan of the trip edge

[ratlover]

Just wondering if it will trip or if it acts like a V plow thats a full trip?

On a V I must say I prefer a trip edge.

I must say I bet a Blizzard has got to move some snow but I wonder how hard it is on the truck(if it dosnt like to trip when a wing is scooping)

I do wonder why people would go for the smaller blizzard? They cant weigh that much less or cost that much less right? I'd look the stuff up but my work dosnt like me going to some sites :headwall but the checking software dosnt have a problem with this site :greenange :grinz

[GeeMC]

Originally posted by 90plow
The blizzard is great if there is a dealer nearby that can give support espeacially if you don't have another truck that is on the same route. I wouldn't buy a plow that I can't have serviced in the middle of the storm or at least find parts for.
JMO
Eric

90plow, We do our own servicing so that wouldn't be a big issue. Getting the parts would take a little longer though. If this plow is as good as it appears to be, then that would be a risk for us. I would always keep the essential spares parts, like hoses in my own stock.

[Pelican]

I don't know how a V trips, I've never used one.

The Blizzard will trip just like a Western straight blade, whether it's in the scoop position or not. There are relief valves on the wing pistons that let them straighten out if the blade needs to trip. Same goes if you bump an obstruction with just the wing, the relief valve will open and the wing will open up.

Why would people go for the smaller Blizzard? I would ask "Why not?" It's a well built plow competitively priced, if the dealer is well established and takes care of business, why shouldn't it be considered?

[mikegamb]

get the free blizzard video showcase.i watch it atleast 10 times a day lol lol

[ratlover]

I ment why would someone go for a smaller blizzard and not the bigger one not why would someone ever buy one. When I bought my V I figured for less than 200$ and 70#'s I was going for the bigger blade. I imagine the blizzard is the same story?

I dont think I would trust the whole wing relieving pressure and folding back and then tripping idea. Oh well, just a down side I guess you gota contend with.......

[John DiMartino]

ratlover,the smaller blizzard plows are a lot lighter than the 810/8611. There are a lot of trucks that cannot take the 1000+lbs they weigh,but they still want a plow.Someone who has an 810 may be able to stick with one brand and buy the smaller Blizzard,keeping the trucks looking the same,and keeping his business in one spot.

[Pelican]

Along the same lines of thinking, ratlover why didn't you install a 11' Frink on your 2500?

Don't trust Blizzard's design? Don't buy one. Watch your competitors plow circles around you, then they will watch you from inside their home sipping a beer while you're still out finishing your route.

Bottom line: My Blizzard 810 has cut my work time by a minimum of 25%, and up to 40% depending on snow conditions. DOCUMENTED! In my book, that would make the plow a worthy investment at even twice the price it actually costs.

[GeeMC]

Originally posted by mikegamb
get the free blizzard video showcase.i watch it atleast 10 times a day lol lol

It's on order:D

[ratlover]

I think you are definatly misunderstanding me here. I am not knocking blizzard. I am actually wondering if I shoulda went that route instead of my fisher.

I am curious about how it trips(or if it does) when in the scoop mode. Mostly outa curiosity, I dont think it would keep me from buying one, it would just mean I would be carefull about when I would use the scoop mode. Like I wouldnt have one the leadinbg wing in scoop mode while windrowing even though it would work very slick just because I drive like a maniac and dont want to blast something and not have it trip. I definatly dont trust a wing to relieve pressure and fold back and then the blade to trip. JMO but if thats what is being relied on then its going to be a violent MF. Thats basicly how a Boss V is supposed to work in theory and in function it can be pretty violent

I was wondering what the price/weight difference was between the 8611 and the 810 and if it was close like it is among the V's why someone would go for the smaller blade?

For the record>>> I'm not knocking blizzard, I'm just curious since one might be in the future. :)

[cutntrim]

When I thought about getting a plow for my new GMC I was concerned with:

1) Reliability
2) Dealer support (i.e. timeliness of service, quality of after-sales service, and proximity)
3) Productivity
4) Price
5) Types of plowing applications blade is required for

I chose between a Fisher 8.6 V, a Arctic 8' poly with "box-type" wings, and a Snoway V. Fisher was my choice because:

1) I read many good reviews on the "other" plowing forum
2) My lawn equipment dealer (who is friend) is now a Fisher dealer
3) I was upgrading from a straight blade with wings
4) I got a competitive price because of my connection with the aforementioned dealer
5) I have a number of properties with narrow laneways and/or parked cars to contend with and a V plow would be beneficial

Blizzard was not considered an option because there weren't any local dealers, reliability has supposedly been a question, and the price would have been greater.

Anyway, there are a lot of factors to consider in buying a new blade so I don't think there's an easy YES or NO that can apply to either the Blizzard or a V-plow.

:canada

[Pelican]

cutntrim, you've hit it exactly.

Each consumer must list their needs and determine which plow will fit them the best. All the questions that have been posed as to "Why?" will receive different answers in each case. No one plow is going to corner the market and eliminate the others, there are too many bases to cover.

ratlover, there are a number of testimonials currently running from Blizzard owners, do a search on them and hear more independant opinions.

I definatly dont trust a wing to relieve pressure and fold back and then the blade to trip.
If you hit something hard enough to break a Blizzard, you will most likely have broken any plow or at least your truck. I've said before, anyone hell bent on destruction will break a Blizzard, along with anything else that they own, but what sense does that make? Perhaps you ought to put more thought into your plowing technique, not being critical, but you're a self-admitted maniac. You'd save yourself a lot of grief in the end.

[ratlover]

I dont fear breaking a blizzard, I just fear a sudden stop or hard hit that would be avoided if the plow(any plow with any trip mecanism) if the plow triped as apposed to not. I just know that a boss V can be violent at times wear as my fisher just trips and goes on its merry way.

The maniac is mostly in jest....but I definatly dont drive around a open lot with no visible obstructions and no cars at 5 mph. Sometimes you "find" things in a lot that has never been a problem before.....or you forget about obstacles when youve been behind the wheel for 12 hours

I think the blizzard is a good concept and have read all the happy reports and no one seems to be tearing them up. I'm just curious how it trips with the wings in the scooped position. I'm not asking what will happen if I blast a catch basin with one wing at 30mph. I know what will happen and what would happen to any plow. I'm just wondering if your wing/wings were in the scooped position and you hit a slightly rasied manhole at a reasonable speed of around 10mph if its going to trip with a minimum amount of shock or if you are going to be happy you were wearing you seatbelt and be trying to mop up coffee outa your dash or hit it and go over it but wonder to yourself for a few seconds "gee, wonder if I broke anything, that couldnt have been good" I'm just curious since I havent really heard anything on how it trips, I've heard plenty on its time savings and how well it moves snow.

Anyone that has one want to comment on how it trips in the scooping mode compared to the straight mode?

[Pelican]

The Blizzard will trip just like a Western straight blade, whether it's in the scoop position or not. There are relief valves on the wing pistons that let them straighten out if the blade needs to trip. Same goes if you bump an obstruction with just the wing, the relief valve will open and the wing will open up.

???

The blade trips the same in both the scoop mode and straight mode, no difference. When it needs to trip in scoop, the relief valve opens, the wings fold straight, the blade trips. End of story. The timing is unnoticable, everything happens simultaneously.

I had exactly the scenario you describe happen to me twice last season, I hit raised basins with the wing at about 10 mph. I fully expected to find the wing folded back, but the only damage was a blown angle hose, and a dent to the cutting edge.

[Pelican]

Here's an excerpt from a post I have on file:

This plow has taken some pretty hard hits. I plow a subdivision that has yet to be accepted by the town with raised catch basins. I've hit them pretty hard a few times. I think this may have brought on some of the damage I've had, I wouldn't expect any plow to survive that unharmed. I also hit a hidden stump at a new account, so hard I had to climb back off the dashboard after that one.

[ratlover]

That was the kinda info I was looking for :)

[GeeMC]

Originally posted by cutntrim
Anyway, there are a lot of factors to consider in buying a new blade so I don't think there's an easy YES or NO that can apply to either the Blizzard or a V-plow.

:canada

Yes there are allot of areas to consider and that was the meaning of my initial post. I’m not looking for a yes or no answer, just trying to get some info on both sides. So far I am leaning toward the Blizzard because of the expandable wings. I can go from a large lot to a residential and not have to worry about changing trucks or blades, which can give me more scheduling flexibility and save time. It just seems to make more sense at this point of my research, but I have not ruled out a V yet.

We will be doing mostly commercial lots, some larger residential subdivisions, and possibly sub contracting to a town if the price is right. We could actually use 2 more trucks, but we are not there yet financially. This business is growing and being nurtured along and this is just the next step for us.

Thanks for the input,

Bruce

[Lawngodfather]

:headwall :headwall :headwall

Looks like we have a brick wall here....

What don't ya get, any plow with some sort of trip to it should trip when hit.

Well when you get a Blizzard lets us know how it works, untill then, it's all speculation.

[ratlover]

What are some of you guys not getting??? :headwall I think pelican understands were I am coming from now.

I am not knocking blizzard! I am asking a question! Pelican answed it although I havent heard from anyone else so I assume everyones experience is the same.

Its comon freaking sense. If you strike an obstruction with a plow with wings in the scoop mode on a full trip(this even goes for a full trip V) there are only a couple of things that can happen.
1. you stop, tear the blade or part of it of a truck or other bad ****
2. the blade trips forward yet the wing stays rigid and the whole blade raises up in the back pivoting on the front of the wing or otherwise bounces over the top of it
3. the wing gets pushed back and the blade trips like normal and all is right with the world
4. I almost forgot one.....you tear what ever you hit outa the ground

Pelican said its #3 wich is what I was asking and that answers my question.

And about the a plow wityh any sorta trip will work, everything you have ever bought works right? You have never seen a product with a design flaw? :confused: :rolleyes: To make a example that is a little closer to the disscusion.....ever hit something with a boss V with the wings scooping?