home biodiesel refining

[mattg]

www.azurebiodiesel.com
I saw this link on the home page for the turbo diesel register and couldn't help but be curious. It may be a couple thousand for the set up, but with the way pump prices are now it wouldn't take too long to pay for itself. I don't know much about biodiesel so I was hoping that those who are wiser than I could answer a few questions.
1) How would this work in a truck with some performance enhancements?
2) What does it gel at, and is it compatible with the standard (power service) anti-gels on the market?
3) With fuel prices the way they are is this an answer to our prayers :greenange or just another version of snake oil?
4) In general what are the benefits, and what are the drawbacks?
5) Will the constant smell of cooking french fries make me gain more weight?

I can't help but be attracted to the idea of brewing up my own fuel at home in my spare time and only paying 70 cents a gallon. On top of that I know a number of guys that if this is the real deal will likely jump all over this. I did a search and saw that wildman was working with biodiesel before. Is it worthwhile to look at this, or forget the idea altogether?
Thanks for any answers you have. This really got my intrest going and I want to know more.

[John DiMartino]

Bio diesel is great,they say you should start out with B20,and after a few tankfuls ,go up in %. The biodiesel is only a problem in older trucks with dirty fuel systems,it clean everything,and the fuel filters will need replacing, once you start running it,after a few filter changes, the system will be clean,and you can run it as trouble free as straight diesel.I dont know about the gelling point of it.With the price of fuel,I am considering making some myself.Just remember,Ford/GM and Dodge will not warranty the fuel system of the diesel pickups with biodiesel,it isnt approved yet as far as i know,so if your running it in a newer truck under warranty ,your on your own.

[mattg]

Any opinion on the refining system that link leads you to? Is it worth the cost, or is it something that a guy with some knowledge and ambition could build himself for a lot less?

[wls]

http://forums.biodieselnow.com/

they have alot of info on this site.

[T-Zab]

Here is one home built unit.
http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/appleseedprocessor/
Pretty cool.
Todd

[mattg]

Wow!!! They sure don't like the fuelmeister unit. After reading for just a bit though they make several good points as to what is wrong with it. Thanks for the various links. I have knee surgery tomorrow and plan to spend some of my down time reading up on this. There seems to be quite the wealth of information on that forum.
Thanks again.

[wls]

There's a outfit that sells the setup, utilizing the hot water tank, actually they have it on ebay also. I can't think of the site, but reading the various links you'll find it.

[Lawngodfather]

http://i22.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/e5/e8/da_1_b.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/30-GAL-INSULATED-BIODIESEL-PROCESSOR-BIOFUEL_W0QQitemZ4573907122QQcategoryZ6755QQrdZ1QQ cmdZViewItem)

http://i19.ebayimg.com/02/i/03/fd/47/fb_1_b.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BIODIESEL-DVD-HOW-TO-SVO-WVO-DIESEL-BIO-DIESEL-vw-ford_W0QQitemZ7998177857QQcategoryZ6762QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem)

http://i12.ebayimg.com/04/i/04/79/35/20_1_b.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-DIY-Biodiesel-Processor-Kit-Bio-Diesel-NR_W0QQitemZ4572506425QQcategoryZ6755QQrdZ1QQcmdZV iewItem)

http://i12.ebayimg.com/04/i/04/d3/ca/ae_12_sb.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BioDiesel-Processor-Diesel-Bio-tdi-WVO_W0QQitemZ4572053669QQcategoryZ6755QQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem)

[EZSnow]

First thing you need to know is:
fuelmeister, bad
appleseed, good

Second thing you need to know is that Bio-Diesel is Bio-Diesel... *not* WVO. WVO is SVO, but SVO is not necessarily WVO. If you're talking about the Jetta project, I believe wildman was tinkering with a SVO/WVO system, which requires more work to convert the vehicle, but less work to process the fuel. The Bio-Diesel is simply run in the trucks tank, and requires no vehicle modifications, but requires more work and cost per gallon to "make" fuel.
WVO: Waste Veg Oil
SVO: Straight Veg Oil

You can make you own appleseed processor for not too much money- under 4 bills from all I have seen- and you'll have a much better processor to boot. I'm going WVO here pretty soon- I'll keep you guys posted.

Theres a very active bio/wvo forum over at The Diesel Stop, and much of it is ford-specific, but certainly not all of it. Lots to learn.

[mattg]

Thanks for all the tips. I've been laid up the last couple of weeks and have spent a considerable amount of time learning about biodiesel. It looks to have a very bright future, and I am seriously considering jumping into that particular ring, in fact a friend of mine has suggested splitting the cost on getting an operation going for the two of us to tap off of. Thanks for the points that you brought up EZ. Most of that I had already learned, and no I'm not looking at the jetta project, I'm looking for something I can put in the tank with no modifications, that will save me money and thus increase the profits. If you can think of any other places with more information please let me know. Thanks again.

[Plow Babe]

Steve was reading something about burning all sorts of stuff in a diesel motor, ratio 2/3 diesel fuel and 1/3 whatever: used motor oil, ATF, corn oil, etc. - no modifications to the truck and nothing done to the other liquids other than filtering them. This guy said he had been doing this for two years in his diesel truck, put on about 35,000 miles per year, and had no problems.

This definitely raised our eyebrows a bit :nope but it is intriguing. That would be one way to recycle our used motor oil, since we do our own oil changes!

Have any of you heard of this / done this? What are your thoughts? :feedback
Thanks!
Karen

[FCLC]

Before I switched over to synthetic oil, I mixed a couple gallons of my used dino oil (summer months) with my diesel and truck ran like a champ. You can also mix 2 stroke oil with your diesel as it has good lubercating properties and very low ash.

[EZSnow]

The problem with running "other" oils (waste engine, vegetable, etc) is that they get thick with colder temps. Cutting them with diesel helps, cutting them with winter diesel helps more, but in the end, they will cause fuel-related problems in extreme temperatures.

I haven't read a whole lot of good theory on burning used engine oil. Between all the detergents used in the fresh oil and all the byproducts of combustion, (soot, etc) you don't have a very "clean" fuel. Will your diesel run on it? Yes. Is it good for it? Probbly not.

Bio-Diesel (homebrew or commercial) is VERY good for your engine. It lubricates injectors and IPs FAR better than the low-sulfur diesel that is currently available. It also seems to act as an excellent solvent. This may cause a couple of clogged fuel filters at first, but once your fuel system gets its crud out, it should stay clean on Bio. The powerstroke guys claim it will quiet the injector clatter considerably- I don't know about the other makes.

Straight veggie (fresh or waste) needs to be heated in the climates experienced on this board. Some people in southern states can get by running 75% or better veggie in the summer and 50% blend in the winter... not in the great white north. I'm still putting together my kit to convert to WVO. Most people I tell think I'm nuts... I think they're nuts- paying $3.40 for a gallon of fuel and not doing anything about it.

I have heard of the dodges having some trouble with WVO due to the heated oil. It seems the IP is fuel-cooled, and that 180* oil isn't cooling them too well... I have seen figures that you can make your own Bio-Diesel for somewhere near $.60 per gallon.

[cat320]

I was watching that show Dirty Jobs and they showed Bio diesel being process from the fryolator to the gas tank.

[FCLC]

[QUOTE=EZSnow]The problem with running "other" oils (waste engine, vegetable, etc) is that they get thick with colder temps. Cutting them with diesel helps, cutting them with winter diesel helps more, but in the end, they will cause fuel-related problems in extreme temperatures.

Not necessarly true but I could see how it would happen if you didn't mix it right. I ran 5%/35 gallons of fuel (1.75 gallons) in the summer and 2% (.7 gallons) in the winter. Couple that with the additive I use in the Winter and I had no problems.

The main reason for running the waste oil was to help lube the VP-44 (injector pump) that Chrysler burdened us with and the way today's fuel is formulated it really does a bad job of lubricating the things that need lubricating. The other reason I used it, it was a cheap way to get rid of my waste oil. Now that I've gone to synthetic, I don't burn it anymore because the synthetic won't burn, just drips out the exhaust.

[Z71]

I was reading where they have heaters in the fuel (modify yours) line to avoid this.

Your neighbors might think you have a meth lab running LOL

There is a story on our local paper about a guy who is doing this, seems to require some effort. He talkes about collecting used veggy oil from restaurants etc but the more people decide to do this, that will dry up as a source. All that work to power a VW.


Alternative to the gas pump?

By KURT HAUGLIE, Gazette Writer

DOLLAR BAY - Matt Manders has found a use for vegetable oil other than frying fish or flavoring salad - he'll soon be running a pick up truck with it.
The energy-efficient building and remodeling contractor said he was attending the Midwest Renewable Energy Fair near Stevens Point, Wis., in June and saw a display for a conversion kit manufactured and sold by a Florence, Mass.-based company called Greasecar Vegetable Fuel Systems. After doing a little more research, he decided to buy one. Then he needed a vehicle to put it in.

That wasn't quite as straightforward as it may seem, because the conversion kits are for Diesel-engine vehicles only.

Manders said when engine inventor Rudolf Diesel created his system in 1895, he didn't intend for it to operate only on petroleum products.

"He invented it to run on vegetable oil," Manders said.

When Diesel demonstrated the engine at the 1900 Paris World Exposition, Manders said he powered it with peanut oil.

Manders said he wanted one of Volkswagen's small pick-up trucks to do the conversion on, but the company stopped making them sometime in the 1980s. He finally found one this summer in New Mexico, however.

Manders said he was attracted to the idea of a vegetable oil-powered vehicle for a few reasons. One of the more important is cost. Bought in bulk amounts of 200 or 300 gallons, it costs about $1 per gallon compared to about $2.70 per gallon for unleaded regular gasoline. It may be possible, also to arrange a deal with local restaurants to take away their waste oil for a lower price or even for free.

"There's enough (waste oil) for 3 million people to be driving," Manders said.

Since waste oil has to be filtered before it can be used as fuel, Manders said it's important that it not have too much food waste or water in it.

"You have to make sure you're getting it from a good source," he said.

Another characteristic that drew him to vegetable oil fuel, Manders said, is that its burning releases into the atmosphere a smaller amount of hydrocarbons than does the burning of petroleum. The extracting and refining of petroleum is environmentally damaging. There is also the often difficult international politics of acquiring petroleum, which can in the most extreme cases lead to war.

Lee Briante, customer service representative for Greasecar Vegetable Fuel Systems, said company founder Justin Carven began working on the idea fairly recently at Hampshire College in Amherst, Mass.

"He started playing with the technology in 1998," Briante said.

Carven began developing the business in garages and barns, Briante said. Now the company has a permanent production facility and employs 15 people.

Briante said when fuel prices went up after Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast and damaged much of the petroleum production facilities there, the telephones at Greasecar began ringing more than usual.

"We were getting overwhelmed with phone calls," he said.

Kurt Hauglie/Daily Mining Gazette

[FCLC]

There's a company that also sells separate tanks with heaters in them along with a pump, etc. If I find it I'll post the link. Pricey though, I believe around $800 for the complete system.