alternative to sandblasting?

[valmet12]

I've been doing a good deal of fabrication with new steel. I've been sandblasting the steel to prep it for paint but its getting expensive and time consuming. I am planning on taking on a large project and sandblasting is not really an option. Are there any alternitive anyone knows about that would get rid of mil scale and get the steel ready for paint? All the paint reps (sherwin williams, international...) tell me that the only way to do it is sandblasting down to white metal. I know theres got to be an easier way but the paont reps can't gaurntee their paint unless it is sandblasted. any help would be appricated thanks

[Snowboy]

Soda blasting, grinding.

Dont think there is any better way.

Dave.

[PSDF350]

I had some steel made up for me recently by my welder. This is what he told me to do to clean it to get it ready for painting. Windex thats right just spray it with windex and wipe clean. It can take a little elbow grease, sometimes more than one application but worked like a charm.

[Pickering Snow]

Sandblasting is one form of prep there are many ways to prep for paint but what type of paint are you wanting to use?

Steel if it is etch primed prior to paint will be fine. Sandblasting on some metals can cause warpage which could wreck a good piece of metal.

Example i had a truck box shipped up from TX for my 60 Ford there was no rust per say like we get on panels up here but it really needed to be striped i did this with 24 grit grinder wheel the 36 grit then started repairing. Had i used a local sandblaster i would of risked warping the panels causing a mess I.E low spots high spots. If your talking about pure white metal stripping in order for paint to stick its bull just the paint companys CYA programs. Like i said invest in a good quality Etch primer you will be fine.

[BRL]

I don't know what etch primer is & if this is the same thing or not but I did try something called "rust treatment" made by Permatex last year when repainting one of the tailgate spreader frames. There were too many little nooks & crannies to fit the grinder into so I sprayed this stuff on since we couldn't get the rust out of the corners. You wait 24 hours after spraying this before painting. The metal where it was sprayed changes to black & looking like it was primed, dissolving the rust I guess. We then painted & it worked well enough.

[valmet12]

thanks guys, yeah I was thinking along the lines of an etching primer, i am probubly going to be useing an epoxy based paint. The problem that I am dealing with is getting the paint to stick to the mill scale that is on new steel. I am not dealing with rust yet

[Ole JIM]

I DONO?--about this Sand Blasting?-as New Steel don*t need any Blasing!-most of my Equipment is Older--& realizing You can*t Beat RUST!--as its a normal Chemical Reaction!--I Grind the Worst OFF--& Paint ON--a Rust Re-Tarder!--which Turns Black over Night--& Apply by Brush--POR-15--as They Regomend!--it goes ON Good--it flows Out Great--& looks like it was Sprayed ON!--Smooth & Shiny--& Both the RUST Re-Tarder & POR-15 Cost a Little More than average Paint!--but--They WORK!--as Advertised! the POR-15-bonds to Metal & makes the RUST become the Adhegen< spelling?--Agent?--I Do All my Frames & under Bodies w/IT!--Its Slow--& the Worse part is Grinding!--very Dirty! JOB--but--Well worth all that Effort in the END!--as It looks Great & Lasts for many Yrs!--but--They Don*t want It Sprayed ON!-I Useually give What-ever?--Two Coats!--& a Gallon goes a Long Way!--Ole JIM--

[T-Zab]

Why cant you spray the por 15 on ? Is it to thick ?
Just wondering, I need to do the frame for the SnowEx in a few weeks and was considering useing the por 15.
Todd

[Ole JIM]

Why cant you spray the por 15 on ? Is it to thick ?
Just wondering, I need to do the frame for the SnowEx in a few weeks and was considering useing the por 15.
Todd
YES! You can Spray it ON! & some DO!-but-they Recogmend You Brush it ON!--a they Claim?-it penetrates Better?-- I have used IT-Brushed ON--& it looks like it was Sprayed!-Nice-No brush marks!-& goes On easy--I have gone in all Directions!--UP & Down & Side to Side--still it looks Good no matter how You do IT!--& the Finish is Great!--I have only used Black--but-it comes in a number of Colors--I*M gonna Do the Wrecker Bed in a light Gray! the 72 KW is White--w/ Purple Booms & front Bumper--& Spoke front wheel--it came w/ Chrome Sims on Rear!--& what really gets ME is it has Crushed Leather high back Seats--Factory--wood Grained Dash & Fancy door Panels--Pretty Fancy for a 72 heavy--WE have made a List of Fancy stuff--& will add as WE get It--but--WE in looking it over Real Good!-Noticed the Radiator--Aluminum--it Don*t Leak!--but I Dono? Why?-as All the cooling fins are dam near Gone!--just the Tubes Left!--so a Radiator Core is a Must GET!--WE priced a New ONE!--Big BUCKS!-& were Hopeing to Find a Good Used ONE? as there Must be One out there Some-Where?--behind some ones Barn?--You know! an Ole KW tractor thats had the Engine Removed & they Saved the Radiator?--& Tilt Nose! I*M told many yrs will Fit?--so Were Looking!--Ole JIM--

[T-Zab]

So Jim any old brush work ?
Todd

[Ole JIM]

So Jim any old brush work ?
Todd
TODD I use a couple of 2-1/2 inch Cheapies--w/ Hair brissels & an Un-Painted Handel--& Go over the real Bad spots--first--& Then give the first Coat--kinda swirling all around hard to get at Areas!--allow it to Dry over-night--& apply a second Coat--the Next DAY!--& its DONE!--Nice Deep Black & nice & Shiny!--& Por-15 sure beats regular Frame Paint--NO brush Marks & It looks like it was Sprayed ON!--& I assume?--Brushing it ON!--uses a lot Less Paint!--but--TODD getting under any truck body & painting--takes*longer & is harder than than It looks!--but--well worth the Effort--when You finally get it Done!--as I BUY & use Used Equipment--& never have bought NEW! since I was a young Feller--& most of my Freinds that BUY New are allways having some? Problem w/Them!--& seeing I*M from the Ole School--& can*t repair the New Computerized stuff--I don*t Buy any!--I have an Ole Freind that operates a Machine Shop & HE can Build just about any-thing!--& between US--My Tinkering & His Machining--I haven*t had any Problems re-building --instead of Up-Grading w/ New Stuff--Body work--is the hardest for ME!--the Wife & Son say I*M too Fussy?--Dono?--Ole JIM--

[T-Zab]

Thanks Jim, does Napa carry the por 15 ? I have seen it online but dont mind going to Napa and paying a bit more. I love those guys and they allways help me out and actually carry alot of parts for the wifes ol clunker (the 66 mustang ). Seems like It has been getting more then her share of parts lately !
Oh I have boycotted all Auto Zones and Lee auto parts and Pep Boys I refuse to shop at the cutrate stores now, no good help and only have half what I need. I Go to Napa good to go :wink
Todd

[Pickering Snow]

Todd

Being a Napa auto Care center :wink i just checked Dc warehouse in Detroit they have it. Has far has your store depends on demand they may not stock it but they can get it overnight from there Dc .

Has far has Napa is concerned there is a bucket load of parts options for me here but you nailed it when you said counter help being good that makes or breaks a parts store. I have done buss with the local Napa store even back when my dad was still alive the place has gone to diff owners and even though i have my ups and downs with some of Napas parts lines there still the best around here.

When asked why i became a Napa auto care center theres two reasons one is my customers get a piece of mind warr which gets them fixed at any service center nation wide and second i get 4 percent back each QTR on purchase's. Part of the buss i get on the weekends is out of town Napa auto care cust from out of town Napa pays towing and repair expense if its a covered part that fails if its not a related repair i still get the repair and tow so its a win win for me.

[Snowboy]

That Por-15 stuff looks good. Looks like the answear to painting my plow frame. Seeing as i spilled most of my Tremclad on the garadge floor last time i used it.

Can i Tremclad over top of this stuff as well or should i just use there stuff?

Dave. :canada

[cat320]

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[Alan]

Nowhere in the original post was there anything to indicae that Valmet is looking to cover rust. He wants to prepare NEW steel for painting. Since structural shapes and plates are hot rolled they are covered with a layer of scale. This can be "loose" and will respond to wire brushing and sanding, or "tight" which is bonded to the metal and needs more aggressive treatment.

The paint people use a schedule of treatments for preparation. The coatings used in industry usually specify a preparation procedure identifed in this link.

http://www.corrosion.com/prep.asp#SSPC-SP-1

Sandblasting may be spec'd as white metal or it may be brush off clean, all according ro the coating maker.

I have used a coating, similar to POR, called Chassis Saver. I put it on both rusted, blasted, and new, untreated steel. Where there was a surface profile from rust or blasting it stayed put, if it was on tight scale it peeled, taking the scale with it, in a couple years.

On cold rolled steel, which is the preponderence of body and frame metals there is not usually an issue with scale, as the billets are cleaned prior to the final rolling processes.

[cat320]

well every one is posting about por15 and I just happen to see this on eastwood and it was said to be better than that that is why i posted it .

[Alan]

Wasn't pointing at you, Cat, your post just happened to be the one I came in after, sorry.

[cat320]

Not a problem Alan It kinda got me thinking of what to use on some of my machine parts that need something like that .,so i can paint them up.

[wfd44]

I am going to through in my $.02 on rust encapsulation/paint prep.

POR 15 can be sprayed. One of the reasons it is not recommended to spray POR 15 is because it is an isocyanate. Isocyanates harden in the presence of moisture meaning if you managed to inhale the vapors it could very well harden inside your lungs (very bad). This is along with the fact that POR 15 is a two part product is why you can't get it in spray cans.

There is another product called Zero Rust that does the same job (equal to POR 15) but it is a one part product, available in rattle cans (and qts, gallons etc), has a much better shelf life (POR 15 has none once mixed) and requires less prep and is less fussy to apply. A friend of mine is the Northeast Distributor and has used it to paint a gooseneck trailer and to paint the hitch plate on the back of his 1-ton in February at 29 degrees after just a quick wipe down with laquer thinner.

I would think a rust encapsulator like Por 15 or Zero Rust would over the new steel. They both basically seal the steel with an airtight coating.