Are you a SIMA Member?

[Chuck Smith]

Just wondering how many Members we have here?

~Chuck

[snowplowjay]

I have been a SIMA member for several years now........

I was put on as a member of the Communications Committee but due to working circumstances I am not able to attend any of the conference calls. Hopefully this summer I will be able to become more active in the Communications Committee..........


Jay

[Pickering Snow]

I voted no Sima is not really at least that i know of made it up here its kinda funny to cause this is snow country i was thinking maybe Mark O is he is over on the west side of the state , i have read about Sima and its not that i cant learn we learn everyday in life its just i dont see were any of my comppetion or myself my company would gain or loose from it mostly because if tomarrow i was to put Sima decals on the snow trucks people wouldnt know what it meant. It kinda reminds me of Ase certifcation i remember when it meant alot to be a national certifed auto tech i have passed just about every cert Ase offers from master auto to master truck and master heavy truck and two years ago i took the certs for body and refinish iam proud of my Ase certifcations its just even with the signs on the shop and on the service truck people still ask what is that???? This is probley more of a question to all members than anything how many members loose contracts or gain contracts because of your being a member or not of Sima just curious?

[snowjoker]

Same circumstances here Fred. Sima would be a waste of my money in this area, since there is not alot of snowplowing work out there. So my vote is no also.

[Mike Nelson]

I am proud to be a member and Board of Director for SIMA. If not for SIMA and its members I would never have known how to grow our snow business to the level it is at now. I agree SIMA is not for everyone, but just imagine if we had all the snow contractors in SIMA. We could have a lot of say in insurance, plow laws, buying power, etc.

We are working on our marketing to the public( our clients) to help spread the professionalism of the industry. Don't forget we are only 8 years young and still growing. I would love to have feed back on how we can make it better or what you would like out of a membership. Please email me at mnelson@nysnowpros.com

Fred, Michigan has 79 members and NY has 106. Total SIMA has about 1,300

Thanks Again

[Mick]

I "used to be". When I started plowing, I gained a lot of useful information and the networking did help me get get started. I avoided several potentially costly mistakes by asking questions. But, after that, the cost was simply not justified. I also greatly enjoyed the St Louis symposium, but again the cost, which ran a couple of thousand by the time I got back, was not justified. I got the impression that SIMA was catering more to the bigger outfits and really wanted to be shed of the "one man shows". When I thought about it, that only made sense since SIMA would want to attract sponsors and advertisers. They could do this by showing they cater to the larger contractors.

In the end, it all comes down to money. The deeper pockets, the more attention you get.

[cat320]

I voted no i'm a one guy operation too .I do think that all these organizations do cater more towards the bigger outfits as to why i never joined any.In the end I think all the dues paid far out way what you may get out of them.It's almost like the BBB. you pay them so they can tell people that your ok so if you have a complaite against you do they still say your ok even though you pay them?. I agree with Mick you probably can pick up some good tips but for a small one guy opertion in my opinon it does not justy the cost to have the name on your flyer.

[crashz]

I'm not a member because, as of yet my snow business is really nil. I plowed for somebody else, using their equipment last year. This year is a toss up because of my present job. Its likely that my GMC will not plow again this coming year, but that depends on where I'm at in October. Obviously with this kind of instability, I would not benefit from being a SIMA member. It would only be another expense that I front with my primary income.

[JCurtis]

I am a one man operation with hopes of sustained growth. I learned alot from SIMA and the annual membership dues are not out of the ordinary. I paid more for other trade organizations I used to belong to.

I did buy the books for the CSP course and attended the Denver Symposium, maybe one day I will take the CSP exam.

I intended to get to Buffalo, Minneapolis, and Louisville, but Life happens and things come up, so my plans had to change.

I am anxious for next years symposium since it is supposed to be in Hartford, CT ( I hope that they don't change their minds)

I would say to those who are one man operations, don't dismiss SIMA, it CAN help, especially if you don't want to be a one man operation forever. If you have a Bad taste in your mouth about SIMA because of the recent troiuble with John Allin and the Symbiot Buyout of SMG, I would just say that although John Allin was instrumental in Starting SIMA, he hasn't been organizationally involved in quite some time. Don't let his past involvement or any ill feelings you may or may not have toward him personally or with SMG as a whole influence your decision to become a member of SIMA.

Remember, even SMG started out as a one man operation !!!!!!!!!!!

[snonut12]

I used to be a SIMA member. Reason is because it seems to me that it would benefit the larger businesses just like what everyone else said. I am one-man operation and intend to keep it that way. Also the cost is hard to jusifty to continue the membership, it is just some money to waste on something that I won't get more out of it than what I put in. Another reason is because I am not happy with the staff at the office. At two separate times I made a phone call to the office for some questions/comments that I had and they said that they will look at it and get back to me. Well, they never did! I don't understand why that happened but to me it seems unprofessional of them so it definitely does not satisfy me. I did not get alot of resource there as I expected.

Honestly the best and the most valuable resource in snow and ice industry would be IMO, the Snowplowing-Contractors.com! ;) I have learned tremenously alot of stuff and of course continue to learn more new stuff every day, the resource here is outstanding! Thank you Chuck! :usa

[Mick]

Honestly the best and the most valuable resource in snow and ice industry would be IMO, the Snowplowing-Contractors.com! ;) I have learned tremenously alot of stuff and of course continue to learn more new stuff every day, the resource here is outstanding! Thank you Chuck! :usa

Very true, Stephen, especially for the small operator.

[John Banks]

I used to be. I agree that it did offer some great information, but as for the networking and forums, I feel that this board is by far the best! I paid my dues, which were reasonable and was able to use some of the information. A big part of my decision to leave was John Allin, and I know Mr. Curtis' comments. I have spoken with a few people at SIMA about this and I honestly feel that they understand where I'm coming from. I understand their position too in trying to boost membership. Maybe one day we'll join again.

[Pelican]

I have never been a member and never considered it with the affiliation to someone John mentioned. I've been looking at SIMA again though, as I kick around the idea of becoming more aggressive in snow removal, plus SIMA has been trying to clean up some of the riff raff. So who knows? Maybe I'll become a member in the future?

[Pickering Snow]

Well know the the A word is spoken i would have to say this last year in Erie when we all got together for the first time i learned about MR A and i left erie feeling like if this snake came to my area how would i kill it. Somewere along the line i guess i put MR A amd Sima together and after hearing what i had heard would have no part of it.


I understand and belive people and companys change I have a great Amount of respect for Mike Nelson after meeting him last year and perhaps when Sima gets more people like Mike in the upper end pehaps i would consider becoming apart of such a org. Mike has far has Mich having 79 members none are from the what i consider the snow belt areas of Mich in this Area has far has Midland is conerned iam probley around the 3rd or fourth largest operation by fall due to the Death of my best friend who had the second largest operation i may very well merge operations the merge is becoming more real has Jeanie the wife of my friend says theres no way she will consider the bidding and contracts by herself has it stands know do to a non compete clause i signed on my north end sale this spring i would have to and will legally sign in has Vp of the company to allow myself to run that area if everything goes has planned my brother will run my operation and i will run Waynes making us close to if not the largest snow contractors in midland i would never say never to becoming part of or learning from a Org like Sima if people like Mike step up to the plate and help dust off the somewhat graphic images of MR A

[JCurtis]

Currently the leadership of SIMA ( President and Vice President) are Alan Steinman and Bob St. Jacques. Alan is a successful contractor from Massachusetts, and Bob St. Jacques is a successful contractor from right here in Connecticut (Windsor) I have met both of them and they are honest,decent hard working guys like those of us here at LTS.

I am sure that many of you know them from your past affiliations with SIMA since they have been members for quite a while. The current issue of Snow Business magazine has an article on them and their pictures on the cover.

Many of you who have attended SIMA events or John Parker's BBQ in Poughkeepsie may have met or talked to Bob St. Jacques as he is usually in attendance. I met Alan at the Denver Symposium at a breakfast meeting.

I understand the reluctance on some of your parts, and I don't blame you in the least. I too considered dropping out of SIMA for many of the same reasons you all did... but I have never been a quitter ( not that any of you are) but once I invest in something whether it be time or money, I usually am in it for the long haul.

I am not promoting SIMA for any personal whatsoever. I think it is a good organization that even with all its faults is still vital and worthwhile. Remember, any organization (Even LTS) is only as good as its members. So if SIMA needs to change, then we need strong leadership and a strong member body to effect those changes. That is one reason why LTS exists today, because change was needed at that other site and the owner of that site was inflexible to the needs and necessary changes being suggested by membership. Thanks to Chuck Smith for being the strong leader he is and for creating LTS for all of us.

Now I will get off my :soapbox , but before I do I would just say to those former SIMA members, Give SIMA another look, you might like what you see.

[Chuck Smith]

I must say, IMO that SIMA has the best Board of Directors yet. I have met and talked to almost all of the current Board over the years, and they (those I have met) are all down to earth honest, successful guys. They know where they came from, and don't have the attitudes that some of the past board members have had. They don't care if you are a 1 truck operator, or a 50 truck operator. That is a big help in moving the association forward.

~Chuck

[Mike Nelson]

He are some of our benifits we offer at SIMA

Certification program
Mentoring program
Training materials
Supplier discounts for members
Discounted car rental rates
Discounted long distance telephone service
Free subscription to Snow Business magazine
SIMA publications
A hyperlink from our website
and more

WORKING TOGETHER
SIMA promotes unity and a cooperative forum. Our members work together to help each other. If you are in need of information you can count on SIMA for help. Whether it is bidding procedures or contract writing, we have the information you need.


KEEPING YOU INFORMED

We are please to offer Snow Business magazine to all SIMA members. This quarterly publication is an invaluable resource for the cold weather manager. It features timely stories, product reviews, case histories, profiles of successful contractors and important SIMA news.

Here is the pricing for membership.
General Member - a General Member is any business directly engaged in the management of snow & ice.

Category Description Price U.S/Can
1 Snow Revenue under $250,000 $170/227
2 Snow Revenue between $250,000 and $1 million $240/320
3 Snow Revenue between $1 million and $3 million $275/367
4 Snow Revenue over $3 million $375/500

I thank all that have replied to this thread. I emailed this thread to all of our Board members to give them a chance to reply.

Again please don't hesitate to email me if you have any questions or have suggestions to make SIMA better.

Sincerely

[Lawngodfather]

Here is my take on it. SIMA is now big enough that it can throw these shindigs without the members paying such a high price to attend like the trade show.....Those people there pay for their space, whay charge someone to go in?

In order to attend the symposium you gotta pay???? If you don't attend a seminar then you should not have to pay anything.

Next, those that are in it tell me all they get is SIMA trying to always sell them something.

Next, no one around here but the 5-6 memebers actually know what SIMA is.

As of today, I am not a member of any assosition or group and have never been.

I thought it would be great to have SIMA member and CSP on my business card and advertising, but it would cost me almost $4000 to become one. Joining, attending symposium taking test travel expences etc.....

I also thought it would be great to be part of PLCCA and Missouri Turf Grass Assosiation and the other ones, but never joined them either.

I do belive in educating yourself, but time plays a big factor in my routine. SIMA isymposiums are not real conveinent to attend being in PEEK season in the green industry.

I do wish I could of went to the one in Louisville, but I hurt my back and could not attend, I was willing to fork out the money to go, but could not make it.
I missed the one here in ST. Louis also, MN, and Buffalo.

If there was more recognision where I am at, I would coisider it and becomeing a CSP a whole lot more, but untill then, I gotta do whatI gotta do.

I hope it goes a lot further, and wish SIMA and its members the best of luck.

[John DiMartino]

I was a SIMA member,but no longer am. At this time i believe this site is the better resource for information.The SIMA website when i was a member was very slow ,with little activity.The free sites were the place you'd get your questions answered much faster. In my market,the reality of SIMA is no one acknowledges ,cares,or even know what SIMA means in the real world as of now.IMO,the plowing certifications and other things SIMA is pushing now should be included for members,but there cashing in on them,selling them. As far as "certifying" a contractor or company.The sales pitch implys that this certification is worth something to the contractor,while in some markets this may be true,the reality is my customers dont care,and i wouldnt include it in a contract I was trying to get,it would just add confusion as to who they are . As for the symposiums and the learning you get from them,I cannot attend them anyway,they do not fit with my summer work. To be honest I'd like to rejoin SIMA one day,and with guys like Mike Nelson taking charge, Im sure it wont be long before SIMA is bigger,and better than ever.

[sonjaab]

:cash GUYS........I am a proud SIMA member.

Sure its not everybodys cup of tea......But which group is?

Is it only good for the big guys with the big budgets and contracts?

Or the little guys that needs advise, contract samples or even straight
answers?

I guess its up to YOU personally and any info. even for a fee or free
like the GOOD stuff thats posted here................

Is belonging to any group any benefit to you or I ?
For some yes.......others no.............

I belong to several local Chamber of Commerce orgs. which advertise
my bar/hotel/motel/rest. operations. My membership $$ also gets me
on the net under many different headings.
My NYS rest. Assoc. membership also gets my name out there........

REMEMBER there is more power and a bigger voice in local and state
gov't. by belonging to a large org. than 1 person fighting city hall !!!

BESIDES.....its all a tax write off anyhoo !!!!........... :cash .....geo

[Mike Fronczak]

I was & got some good contacts from it, at the time was worth the money. Now dues went up & in my area some larger & unscrupulious (billing a Rite Aid for 2 ton of salt/visit), contractors are now members to boost their legitimacy. So I didn't see the point. There are some good people their however.

[Mike Nelson]

"contractors are now members to boost their legitimacy. So I didn't see the point."

Members are there to learn from one another and learn they do. I don't know of any member that is ther only to boost their legitimacy. The members that I have talked to are all looking to help one another. Doesn't matter what size you are, everyone has great ideas and suggestions.

As I said before, feel free to call me or email me with any questions, thoughts or suggestions.

Thank You and have a Great Holiday!

[Mark Oomkes]

I am a member, actually a Charter Member. I was also a member of Snowplowing Association of America, which was only around for a year or two before SIMA was formed. I think it is well worth the investment, although I respect and understand why some are not members. I agree as well that this site is more informative than SIMA's forum, which needs to go back to the old format, because the new one is worthless, IMHO. Can't tell where there are new posts, can't search for new posts.

I have learned tons from the 3 Symposiums and few Regional Training Seminars I have been to. These have also been worth the money invested.

I do not like the fact that just about everything at the Symposiums is an extra cost, now. In Denver almost everything was included in the price. I know this stuff costs a lot and I am assuming that the sponsors of these events don't pick up the entire cost which is why members also have to pay. I do not like this and think it should go back to the old way, JMO. I was also a little disappointed this year because I and a few others thought there was too much time dedicated to the trade show and that there should have been more educational seminars, like the previous Symposiums. I am aware that the vendors want time to show their equipment (especially Epoke :grinz ) but personally, if there are that few educational sessions in the future, I will have to look very hard whether or not I attend.

Mike Nelson, I am sure that just like every organization, there are unscrupulous contractors' that are members that think by saying they are members that it legitimizes them. Hopefully, they will learn that they are doing things unethical and change their ways. That is and was one of the main goals of SIMA, to raise the level of professionalism of the industry and the way the general public perceives the industry. I think SIMA has done a great job of doing that very thing and continues to work at it. Along the way there has been a few rough patches and I think that the new leadership is going to help turn that around as well. I am much more pleased with the current president (even though I know virtually nothing about him) than I was with the the president that just resigned. I heard some negative things about him that changed my opinion of him by a contractor that I know and respect greatly in that market. But I am sure that all organizations have had some problems and have worked through them. I stand behind the Board and the direction they are taking SIMA.

It is also great to meet and network with contractors from all over. Nice to talk with Scott again, even though I had to listen to him talk about how nice the snowfalls are in CO. :grinz Nice to know you can pick up the phone and talk to somebody from just about anywhere in the country and get some help on something if you need it. I know I get the same thing here as well and I appreciate both methods of networking.

I strongly recommend it, but would not force it down anybody's throat. I have benefited from it and expect to continue to benefit from my membership. It is just like anything else in life, if you don't put anything into it, you won't get anything out.

PS Bill, even though you weren't there I kept up the tradition for you by wearing shorts all 3 days. :grinz :grinz

[Mark Oomkes]

Looks like I have to change my statement about SIMA's forum. There have been some changes since I last visited. It appears to be much more user friendly now.

[Mike Nelson]

Mark,

I thank you for all your suggestions and ideas. I will bring them forward to the board and the proper committees.

Funny about the trade show, we did cut it back from the previous years. Again they are a huge contribution to our show, but we will survey them again to get their opinion.

Again thank you and all have a great Holiday!

[Mark Oomkes]

Mike, I filled out the survey from the website with the same suggestions. Maybe there were just more educational seminars going on at the same time as the trade show? It just seemed to me and a couple others that all Thursday afternoon and then again Friday morning seemed like a lot. And then with the breakouts finally starting later Friday afternoon, I was a little disappointed when I compared it to the first 2 I attended. Some of the other conferences I have attended I have been almost overloaded with ideas and learning that I was more than ready for the conference to be done. Didn't have that this time. A little bit from my aspect can be attributed to the fact that I have heard Mark Mayberry before, so most of that wasn't new to me, but he was still very good and very motivational.

You have a great holiday as well! :usa

[smallplowguy]

I'm a member and have landed 2 big jobs over the competition because of my membership. It shows your customers you are trying to become the best and are really serious about snow.

[Mike Fronczak]

Sorry it took so long to respond back.
Mike Nelson, I did /have learned a ton from the members her as well as SIMA, not trying to take anything away from that. I had lunch with you in Buffalo, & got some advise from you as to sidewalk units (I now have an Artic cat 500 with a plow & salter that works awesome). What I was getting at is this
1. that the advise I get/give is just as good or better here.
2. I have never been asked anything about SIMA from a customer & did advetise as being a member.
3. Some of the contractor in the area that joined are larger than I am (nothing wrong with that), but will low ball the plowing ($ 40.00 for a Eckerd), plow at 1/2 inch (on a 2 inch contract), then salt, then charge them for 2 ton of salt on a 40,000 ft lot. I understand you need to make money, but where's the honesty & integrity in that. Can I prove it, no, have I seen it happen, Yes. Should they get caught, I don't want to know what would happen, if there luckly they just loose the customer, but I believe send a false bill through the mail is mail fraud, not to mention it is very common place with these guys.
I believe in treating my customers fairly & honestly & don't want any part of that. However I am a contractor not a salesman, (these guys have professinal salesman (or bulls#$ters)), so any referals I may have gotten thus far would of also called them as well.
There are alot of people in SIMA that are fantastic people, do not in any way think I am trying to take away from that.

[AL Inc]

Just joined last week. Even though I've been plowing on my own for about 10 years, I just felt like it was time to get serious about it. It is definitely one area of my business I want to grow. I've learned a lot from reading here, and I just felt joining would be a way to learn more.

[salt shaker]

I've read enough to understand that allot of the replies are from contractors that are not members of SIMA, and I am hearing the same thing in each post, "I am not a member because no-one knows what SIMA is". Well all I can say is this, become a member and promote the group, get the word out, put up signs, banners, tell the world what kind of an organization SIMA is. If nobody speaks about it, no-one will know about it.

What would have happened if nobody said a word about the SMG problem? How would anyone of heard about LTS? How would anyone know about your company if nobody said anything about it? You obviously want good things said about whatever it is that is being talked about, but we all know that it does not always happen. You cannot rely on the organization to promote itself, the members have to do the leg work. Are you the only one promoting your business, our does word-of-mouth help? We all know how expensive advertising is, and that the more you advertise the more you have to make up for that money somehow.

Members have to do their part by promoting the organization, and by doing so can reap the benefits of the Symposiums, networking oppurtunities, and the time that SIMA can devote to the industry. I heard allot of good things at the Symposium, and I hope SIMA can work on some of those things. I know there were allot of people interested in what was being said in Mike Nelsons forms sharing session, and Mike I hope you are able to move forward on some of those ideas that were talked about in regards to tracking, estimating, and the like. Things like that would really set members apart from the rest of the industry, and I think (speaking only from what I hear) that is what people are looking for from SIMA.

Everyone has to understand that, SIMA is a young, very young organization, anything that you can contribute will help. Allot of these directors run their own company and work with SIMA I give them all the credit in the world.

Keep up the good work! :soapbox I'll get off it now

[cutntrim]

I was a member for a couple of years, but decided the return on investment wasn't worth it. With the exception of Buffalo, the shows were too far away. I could have traveled, but could not justify the added expense. Being Canadian, the costs are much higher, and the benefits of membership are lower. That being said, the more you put in to something (ie. time, money, etc..) the more you'll get out of it. I did not/could not put more in, so I didn't get much out.

I would agree that this forum has been the best source of information and networking that I've found, and beyond that my local membership in Landscape Ontario has benefitted me far beyond what SIMA got me. I'd also agree that none of my customers have ever heard of SIMA nor did any care one way or the other if I was a member or not. Reliability, experience, insurance, manpower, equipment, responsiveness, etc... are what the customers care about. Not association memberships.

[Mike Nelson]

New Partnerships for Growth in Canada: SIMA and Landscape Ontario
July 28th, 2005

SIMA has announced a new partnership with Landscape Ontario, a Horticultural Trades Organization. Through this new venture, Landscape Ontario will offer SIMA membership to its members, and will also work with the association in promoting upcoming SIMA events.

In addition, Landscape Ontario will have representation on the SIMA Board of Directors as well as on various committees. The two organizations will work together to provide great member benefits for both organizations. For more information about this partnership contact the SIMA office at (815) 835-3577!

Cutntrim,
Maybe this will help you and others.

[cutntrim]

Smart move, LO is a solid organization up here with lots of members. Myself and others will certainly consider membership depending on what benefits we might get out of it, especially if they're geared towards Canadians.

[Lawn Lad]

Professional associations provide different value to different people based on their needs, experience, motivations, etc. No association can be all things to all people, and if it tried they'd fail miserably.

I belong to several state and national organizations, including SIMA, so that I can stay in the loop as to what's going on in the industries. I can't pay my membership dues if I'm not out working (one of the reasons I haven't been on this board in awhile). But the regular mail I get from the associations (magazines, newsletters, educational seminar announcements, etc.) are all informative and allow me to make the decision if I can attend. I attend less than 1% of the available shows and seminars out there. It would be a full time job to attend all the seminars that are offered by all the different relevant associations to our businesses. Even if you don't attend seminars you still get value from the associations.

Case in point; we've been working on measurements in our business and have been looking for resources that might help us to work through this odyssey. I looked at PLANET's website (we're a member) and found the old Crystal Ball Reports which I tried ordering. The old issues are not available I found out, even though the website lists them. I called the office and they found me old copies that were being recycled or thrown out and sent me the three I wanted on this measurement topic. Organizations like PLANET, SIMA and other state associations go out of their way to help their membership. I paid PLANET for the old reports and I should expect to. Any association needs funds to keep it up and running.

I understand why SIMA needs to charge for events. If all things were included in the symposium price then the overall price would have to be higher to all attendees, thereby subsidizing the event for others. Not all events, like the facility tour, can handle 1,000 people. By charging a nominal fee to cover transportation and related expenses, they can reduce overall costs to all attendees. As well, if you make a commitment to attend and pay $50.00 to go on the tour you're going to show up. If people don't pay for it specifically the absenteeism rate will be much higher making it more difficult to plan, the result being either too much capacity or under capacity - in either case not good. This same principal holds true with Snack and Chats. Pay for lunch and the privilege of attending the formatted session. If the snack and chats were part of the package, how would you tell the convention facility how much food to order? What if you thought 500 people would come but it turns out only 250 showed? What a waste of food that is unnecessary. The same goes for the awards banquet and some of the entertainment. And, there are free events too that you can simply show up to unannounced as well.

Sorry for stepping on my milk crate there, just a little frustrated that people expect something for nothing or don't think about the economics of the situation.

SIMA is a very good organization that is growing quickly, thanks to the very good staff and leadership that has adjusted and grown with the organization. I will continue to use SIMA as I do will other resources to learn so that I can grow and develop my business.

[Mark Oomkes]

Great points, Doug. Some of the points I made that you addressed go back to the first Symposium I attended. I just sort of got used to it that way, but things do need to change. And probably for the better.

[urethane dino]

I have been a member since early 99. I have attended 2 symposiums and learned alot from them. I even learned alot from JAA. He was a good speaker and presented his info in a very good manner. That certainly does not excuse recent dealings tho.
I am not as active I used to be, and I have to say this. I got the most out of SIMA when I was putting back in. I really believe trade orginizations work on a reciprical principal. The more you give, volunteer, and give of your time the more you will get out of it. SIMA is directly responsible for 3 industry articles I have been part of, and that I use in marketing to this day.
If a symposium is anywhere near, I would advise to attend, you will learn alot.
I can also say that the staff in the office is the best bar none. They welcomed me with open arms on friday. I never met any of them except Tammy before, and they could not have been nicer.If anyone really has questions or concerns, call the office, they are honest in all that they do. I said in 99 I would be a member for as long as I plow snow, and I still intend to do so.
Dino

[EZSnow]

Well... now I am! Just joined last week. I hope it is everything it is said to be!

[Ecurb]

Not a member. I have been in bussiness longer than they have so i think i might have it down by now. If your a big company it might help. Around here my customer could care less if you belong to any association. They want service and no excuses.
I am also on the down side of my snowplowing years so(35 years this year with family allmost 55)............not looking for change or bigger.

[tjlands]

I am a no also.
I, like Ecurb have been in bussiness longer than SIMA. I have looked into it
several times and did not find one good reason to join yet.
I bid 25-30 new commercial sites every year and being a SIMA member or not makes no difference.
In 15+ years of snow plowing I Have kept close to 100% of my commercial customers and I have some of the "big" guys bid against me every year.

[CPSS]

I also have been a SIMA member and felt I got absolutely nothing from it. At first, I put the stickers on the truck windows, and mentioned it in all my proposals. Once or twice during discussions with customers someone would ask what SIMA was. After a lengthly explaination, and being all proud of myself, they all said they never heard of it and acted like they were not at all impressed. Sorry, just another business expense I can't justify.

[Big Dog D]

SIMA member since 1999, going to Hartford in June, I hope!

[Chuck Smith]

I can't remember if I joined in 1999 or 2000. At any rate, I am still a Member, and a CSP. I have gotten a lot out of my membership, but then again, I put a lot into it too. I have scaled back on participation the last two years, and have gotten less out of my membership, but I will stay a member, and some day hopefully I will have more time to dedicate to SIMA. There are many success stories associated with membership, and the networking opportunities. There is one thing that some of you are missing that is a fact, many successful SIMA Members are not active on any Forums. The only way to talk to them is to network in person, at SIMA events. I plan on going to Hartford!

~Chuck

[digit]

I joined this fall when I attended the conference in Buffalo so far I have gained a lot of info and plan on takeing the csp test this spring. The only thing I wish someone would have explained all the benefits I didn't realize about the mentoring program untill I was done bidding this fall.
As several people mentioned the more you put into an organization the more you will get out of it being a fire chief in a small volunteer Dept. I totally agree with this I believe you will find it this way were ever you join .

[4evergreenlawns]

As I read it seems I only have to offer what about 14% have responded and that is I was and not any longer a member. I started out joining some trade orginizations along with what some otehr have said about local Chamber of Commerce.

I was not able to really invest the time into my SIMA membership to see any yield. However, the time I invested in the local Chamber of Commerce landed me a Director's seat. I know what I can do for my local community and the Business to Business networking is priceless. The relasionships and leads have all yielded huge rewards.

IMO if SIMA had more on an application process along with other orginizations like ILCA (Landscaping Assoc.) with network categories. Seems like the membership fees are based on company size but that is about it. While being a member I found great information from people the grew their company but they were all success stories of going from big to huge. Yes, there are one man operation members but I found there to be a huge gap where I feel into.

I live and operate within 15 miles of Tovars Snow Plowing (Jeff Tovars operation) yet I never felt like we were even in the same State muchless the same country as members of the same orginzation. He has a huge company and has a sales force out there driving the price point down yet had several features in SnowBiz about bringing the industry togahter with a industry standard. With that in mind I just decide to give it a go on my own.

I too felt the Forum on the SIMA site was really a waste of time and always ended up back at LTS. The CSP program was impressive but over time I have learned that local commecial refferences do more for closing a deal than anything you can put in an ad, card, or promotional flyer. After more than a few meeting with a Client during the bid process they do not want to hear more about you from you. They want to hear or see for themselves from someone else. At least that is my experience. I learned this the hard way and changed how I bid/sell business resulting in a lost of interest in the CSP Program not taking anything away from it but is there any proof (that is Cleints that say I awarded you the contract becasue you were a SIMA member and/or a CSP) this helps?

LTS has done more for my snow business than anything means of informtion to support growth. Here people can to quailify and validity the information they have based on experience. When questions arise there is a huge response. People get to know who you are, what stage of developement business is in and where it came from. You get to share real time experiences and not have to wait for a trade show to get brought up to speed on what is going on in the industry (SMG and the recent Blizzzard buy out).

I do miss the Snow Biz mags and seeing how they are free with membership is there a paid subscription program?? Seeing how is also seems SIMA now wants to sell each and every addtional bennifit that use to be part of membership??

Just my view.

[BayCityBullet]

Well, being from Erie, I'll have to say I have avoided SIMA due to the association of "he who's name remains unmentionable". :haha After reading some of the responses here I see he really doesn't have a whole lot to do with SIMA anymore. I do receive the magazine & read the articles from time to time. The discouraging thing at this time is that he seems to have been "replaced" by another local contractor. :headwall This is my OPINION, so take it at that.

The big problem I see in our local market is a handful of contractors with big EGO'S wanting to be the "biggest". Way too much backstabbing & people not practicing what they preach.

[CGSI]

I sure am.... And Very Proud of it

[Mark Oomkes]

Well, being from Erie, I'll have to say I have avoided SIMA due to the association of "he who's name remains unmentionable". :haha After reading some of the responses here I see he really doesn't have a whole lot to do with SIMA anymore. I do receive the magazine & read the articles from time to time. The discouraging thing at this time is that he seems to have been "replaced" by another local contractor. :headwall This is my OPINION, so take it at that.

The big problem I see in our local market is a handful of contractors with big EGO'S wanting to be the "biggest". Way too much backstabbing & people not practicing what they preach.

I'm pretty sure it's OK to mention J-hole. ;)

So you have the same problem with "biggest"? We have 2 here in GR that are basically in a bidding war. I say let them have at it. THey can run each other into the ground. Seem to be in competition as to who can be the next JA of Grand Rapids or maybe even Michigan.

Biggest sure ain't best, I guarantee that. Just look at Tru-Green. Or Symbiot.

Thankfully, SIMA is bigger than just one member and was able to weather the storm. Unfortunately, these types are undoing what gains the industry had made over the last several years. IMO, pricing is worse than what it was before SIMA. So now we have to regain that level of pricing, which I don't know is possible because of these types. What really bothers me is that we now have SIMA members not practicing what they preach.

[BayCityBullet]

I will have to say it was quite refreshing reading the "facts" about what happened when our old friend "sold out" to the new owners in the SIMA magazine. If only the local paper would pick up on that one. Show me the money!:cash LOL

I don't want to hijack this thread & go on about the multitude of problems that this one person has caused in the local market, I'll save that for another day. What I will say is SIMA may want to be careful who they feature from this area in the future because it could come back to haunt them down the road.

[Rocket]

I'm not a member, yet. The President of the association lives not far from here. We've talked once or twice. He has a much bigger outfit than I. I've asked if it would help a small company such as mine when I see so much about the big companies (I think I've mentioned that before). I understand about putting an effort into it to get something out of it but I have to find more balance in my time sharing. I already belong to four other associations that take "effort" —to the tune of 10–20 hours a week—and hold certifications in two. The fact is I need to see a good ROI and that begins with the first check. Quite honestly, it is hard to determine exactly how and what my company will gain.

My outside view of it makes it seem like such a secret organization. They seem to provide good services but I really don't know who, how, what, why, etc. This thread is the first I've heard of a mentoring program—of which I'd be interested in. I've emailed and asked questions and gotten no responses. I get plenty of mailings to join which can be alarming. Is the association fishing for members for a reason? What is its turnover? How many companies or individuals stay on year to year? Is there a core group that seems to always be at the center of everything?

I've gotten a little skeptical of industry associations over the last couple years. Some just want to grow their numbers so they can push their own (specific members or board members) agenda. Others want to grow to become more recognized in their own right (not the member companies). Yes, there are a few out there that actually do those things that are mentioned in their mission to support of their members—but they are becoming fewer and fewer. It doesn't leave a good taste in your mouth when you've seen this all first hand.

I liked how the Chamber of Commerce did it here. Let prospective companies do a trial membership of sorts. Sure you run the chance that people will come and "rip off" assets but if the organization is as good as it is cracked up to be then they limit the liability. Most of us who are business owners or self employed know all about taking chances so why is it that when it comes to associations do we shut up like clam shells? Maybe because we double invest (time and money) to associations and only reep the awards of a single investment.

On the other hand places like LTS where there is an association of interested people provides a better ROI. Quite honestly a person can meet others, improve their chances of landing jobs, buy/sell equipment, and learn/pass on wisdom from all parts of the country, if not the world, and all with an investment of time. How does an association compete with that? Usually with an educational program of which SIMA has.

What is disturbing is that it seems to not have continued its developement recently. I mean the videos are still produced on VHS and that leads me to believe that even with all the new technology out there that the training might not be updated—Uh-oh. I'm not trying to discredit it in any way and as I started out with I am likely to join at some point (probably at or near the Hartford conference dates) but I am stating how it appears to me form the outside—with my rose colored glasses. Ahh, I'm just rambling.

[Mike Nelson]

"What is disturbing is that it seems to not have continued its developement recently. I mean the videos are still produced on VHS and that leads me to believe that even with all the new technology out there that the training might not be updated—Uh-oh. I'm not trying to discredit it in any way and as I started out with I am likely to join at some point (probably at or near the Hartford conference dates) but I am stating how it appears to me form the outside—with my rose colored glasses. Ahh, I'm just rambling."


This my friend is not true. Our last video (produced 2005) is on DVD. We try and produce a training video every year.

I sit on 3 committees for SIMA and on the Board of Directors. I can't believe your emails go on answered.

Feel free to email with any concerns that you might have.