MTO requirements for Ontario guys

[cutntrim]

On another thread about load capacities for carrying salt, the topic of MTO licensing requirements came up. I though it might help those from Ontario to put the info into a thread specifically concerning those requirements.

With the help of some more informed members (Chris "Wyldman" in particular) I've finally got it figured and have my trucks properly registered. In Ontario if you are over 4500kg you need to obtain a CVOR # (Commercial Vehicle Operator Registration). The application is available for download at the MTO website and is mailed to their St. Catherine's office. That part is free.

Next, your truck(s) need to be registered on your MTO permit for the appropriate amount of weight (GVWR). In my case I got my two trucks increased to 8000kg each. Previously the GVWR for each was under 4500kg. You'll find your GVWR listed on your vehicle permit. Now, the tricky thing is this - it's not how much weight you necessarily are carrying/pulling that matters. It's how much your GCWR (truck + trailer) adds up to. I almost never scale over 4500kg, but my truck and trailer combos are each well over 7000kg in GCWR. So, that's why I had them registered for 8000kg each. Finally, you then need to have a safety done one each truck and trailer in order to receive a yellow sticker which says your equipment is safe to transport over 4500kg on Ontario roads. After that, the truck(s) and trailer(s) have to be safetied annually to satisfy ministry requirements.

Anyhow, it cost me an additional $240 at the MTO licensing office for the upgraded weight changes to the two trucks, plus I'll be paying $70 a pop for safeties on two trucks and two trailers from now on...lovely.

:canada

[wyldman]

Your pretty much correct,except you do not need a CVOR.They are only for big trucks.CVOR requirements are based on registered gross weight,which you don't have to go to high on.They will just ding you more for the plates too.You only have to include the trailers in the registered gross weight if any axle transmits more than 2800 Kg to the road,which I doubt yours does.That would be about 6200 lbs.If your registered gross is 4400 lbs,you'll be fine.They will never bother you if it's a little low anyways,not with a pickup truck.

You do not want the hassles of filling out all the log paperwork required for a CVOR.They will check it all the time.

You do need the annual inspections for both the truck and trailers.

[Snowboy]

I found a weigh bill from the dump and is saying 2725 (in) & 2615 (out) i assume thats lbs ?

My sticker says 3901/8600 thats my GVWR so that info on the sticker is what GM says my truck weights ? 3901/8600kgs is what i can carry in my truck yes no ?

I confused... Is it possible that the dump only weighed my rear end ?

You know of a scale close by and is it free ? I know of one on Dixie and 401 north on Dixie by Fermar / PaveAl on the west side of dixie.

if 3901 lbs is what i weigh then i dont have much room left to carry a salter with salt in it legally right ? Seeing as a ton of salt is 2200 lbs and the salter is 700 lbs..

I wana know for next year what i gota do.

[cutntrim]

Well, I mailed an application today so I'll find out soon enough about all of the red tape associated with having a CVOR. This is the link that I got the info from on the MTO website. http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/cvor/cvorq&a.htm
I have no idea how to paste a link directly so I just cut & pasted the address.

Anyway, they contradict themselves by saying that "heavy commercial" operators require a CVOR, but then say that any vehicle/power unit operator over 4500kg requires one. Well, if I'm over 4500kg then I read it as me requiring the CVOR.

What's done is done, too tired to worry about it anymore.

[wyldman]

Originally posted by Snowboy
I found a weigh bill from the dump and is saying 2725 (in) & 2615 (out) i assume thats lbs ?

My sticker says 3901/8600 thats my GVWR so that info on the sticker is what GM says my truck weights ? 3901/8600kgs is what i can carry in my truck yes no ?

I confused... Is it possible that the dump only weighed my rear end ?

You know of a scale close by and is it free ? I know of one on Dixie and 401 north on Dixie by Fermar / PaveAl on the west side of dixie.

if 3901 lbs is what i weigh then i dont have much room left to carry a salter with salt in it legally right ? Seeing as a ton of salt is 2200 lbs and the salter is 700 lbs..

I wana know for next year what i gota do.

The figures from the dump are probably in Kg.2615 Kg would be about 5800 lbs.So that leaves you about 2800 lbs of payload capacity.

If you didn't have a plow mounted,then you could carry around a ton.With a plow,you can cut that almost in half.

[pro property]

I got a speeding ticket this summer. The cop noticed on my ownership the rated weight didnt seem high enough for the amoun of weight i was pulling on my landscape trailer. He mentioned I may want to get that changed. If the mto pulls me over its a $500 fine. I havent changed it yet, maybe I shuold look into it.
:canada

[Snowboy]

Originally posted by pro property
I got a speeding ticket this summer. The cop noticed on my ownership the rated weight didnt seem high enough for the amoun of weight i was pulling on my landscape trailer. He mentioned I may want to get that changed. If the mto pulls me over its a $500 fine. I havent changed it yet, maybe I shuold look into it.
:canada

Didnt you say you worked for MTO before ? :geez Bad bad.. :)

[diginahole]

Let us not overlook daily inspections, maintenance plan and log, and hours of operation. Someday (maybe soon) you will be required to produce these documents.

MTO daily inspection and maint. (http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/regulations/daily.htm)

MTO hours of operation (http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/trucks/regulations/hours.htm)

[Snowboy]

I hear about that once you registed commerical you have to keep a log and do daily inspection.

[cutntrim]

Well, with Chris' help, a few back-and-forth phone calls to the MTO in St. Catherines, and much time reading the MTO website...I've got my situation figured.

I'll need to get stickers (and annual inspections) for both pickups and both landscape float trailers. I've already got the stickers for the trucks.

I don't require a CVOR since the weight being transmitted to the road by either of my trailers is under 2800kg. So, I've cancelled my already submitted application for a CVOR.

I'll be going back to my local MTO office AGAIN to re-register my trucks for a much lower GVWR of 4400kg each. Enough to cover the weight of the truck + load + trailer tongue weight. That'll save me having to fill out logs, and having to pay extra bucks for the added GVWR.

Thankfully it'll soon be done and I can get back to more enjoyable ways of spending my time after the kids are in bed...like watching the Leafs and Raptors! :canada

[wyldman]

That's the way to do it.No CVOR and 4400 Lb registered gross.Less expense,less headache,and 99% legal in most circumstances.

[pro property]

Ill have to get mine changed over in the spring
:canada

[diginahole]

cutntrim/ wyldman,

If you can get away without CVOR because the combo scales in under 4500 kg and the trailer transmits less than 2800 to the road, what makes it necessary to get annual safeties on the truck and trailer? The way I understand it (and I use that term loosley) if you have yellow stickers you need a CVOR.

[wyldman]

Annual inspection stickers and CVOR's do not go hand in hand.Due to the weight,all vehicles which require a CVOR,would require an inspection sticker,but not the other way around.

Most 3/4 ton pickups don't need a sticker unless towing a trailer,and then they would both need them (due to the combined GVWR more the 4500 Kg).Registered gross is used to determine if a CVOR is required,and small trailers (under 2800 Kg) do not have to be included in the registered gross weight calculation.

Confused yet ? :D

[diginahole]

Confused, ya still a little. cutntrim said the manufacturers GVWR is 4173 kg. His truck, trailer and cargo weighs in under 4500 kg and presumably his trailer transmits less than 2800 kg to the road. This seems to add up to an exemtion from both CVOR and annual inspections. Is it because his trailer is marked with a manufacturers GVWR greater than 327 KG that he requires annual inspections?

[cutntrim]

Dig - Yes, I need the trucks and trailers stickered because the "highest" weight of each (in this case GVWR) added togeter exceeds 4500kg. However, (and this is where I couldn't get Chris' good advice through my thick skull) for CVOR it's the amount of weight actuallly "transmitted to the roadway by the axle(s)" of the trailer that's important. Under 2800kg = no CVOR. Over 2800kg = yes CVOR. :canada

[diginahole]

Well I think I get it now.

I have a C5500, a f350 P/U and a 16 foot enclosed trailer that I pull a 4000lb skidsteer in. I need to have the whole works, but it was interesting to learn about the rules again.

At the Durham Chapter MTO meeting last year we had both a facility audtior and an inspection officer. They both admitted that the rules can be very confusing and it really is up to the officers interpretaion of the laws and regulations when you get pulled over. You will get your opportunity to dispute the officers interpretaion in court.

One hot topic at that meeting dealt with the Transportation of Dangerous goods act. At the time of the meeting we could not get a clear answer about the requirements for transporting jerry cans of fuel. As I understand it now we can carry containers less than 30 litres without the drivers being certified if we mark them Limited Quantity and that mark must face the outside of the vehicle.:headwall

My aim is to remain compliant as I can, but I don't think it is entirely possible to be 100% compliant at all times with all the laws and regulations we are faced with as business owners. Networking in forums like this and LO helps us greatly by keeping us in the know.

Thank you guys for the help.

[Snowboy]

What will i have to do next year.

So in the other thread i showed how much my truck weighs acording to the sticker on the door as well as what i got from the dump.

I would want to put a bed sander in my truck steel that weights 700 to 1000 lbs im sure there there is me and my fuel etc etc and salt.

Wont i be over weight with my 3/4 ton P/U ? I cant register my truck because i will be to heavy and they wont allow that. With no blade on can i still carry a ton of salt and be legal and not have to register my truck ?

Wouldnt it be best not to have the plow on the front of the truck and just have the load in the back as far as abuse to the truck or wear ?

[wyldman]

You don't need the sticker for just your truck.You would be way over your GVWR to require the sticker,and then you get an overweight fine anyways.

You only need the sticker (for both) if you throw your trailer on it.

Your truck,without the blade could carry just under a ton in the v-box legally.With the blade on,your limited to probably half a ton.

[Beast12]

I don't know exactly how it works for trailers but for truck's UNDER 4500 kg you do NOT need an annual safety. If you are over 4500 kg you need your annual safety and sticker. So if you ever have your truck over 4500 kg (including towing weight and anything in the back of the truck) you need your annual safety sticker. Also, if you are over 4500 kg you need to have a daily inspection sheet. Basically to say that you have checked your truck over for a tire pressure, fuel leaks, suspension, mirrors are adjusted, windows are clear, etc. You have to keep the sheets for 3 months. If you don't do one and you get pulled over, it's gonna cost $300 and some odd dollars. I feel as though the safety is kind of a good idea because you can fin d problems with your truck early and maybe save yourself some problems down the road.

-Matt :canada

[cutntrim]

Bringing back an old topic. As mentioned in another thread under the "Big Toys" section, I'm soon getting a 12,000# dump trailer and a 553 Bobcat.

The Bobcat goes 3,700lbs and the trailer will weigh around 3,000lbs. The combo will be pulled by either my Dodge 2500 4x4 or my GMC 2500 4x4. I think that now means I will need the CVOR...correct?

[Beast12]

From reading this thread and from what I know, you will need a CVOR because you will be over 4500 KG with the total weight of the truck, trailer and Bobcat.

-Matt :canada

[wyldman]

Originally posted by cutntrim
Bringing back an old topic. As mentioned in another thread under the "Big Toys" section, I'm soon getting a 12,000# dump trailer and a 553 Bobcat.

The Bobcat goes 3,700lbs and the trailer will weigh around 3,000lbs. The combo will be pulled by either my Dodge 2500 4x4 or my GMC 2500 4x4. I think that now means I will need the CVOR...correct?

Yes,you will need a CVOR.Your registered GVW on the ownership must be changed to whatever the max combined weight your carrying is (truck+cargo+trailer+bobcat+anything else).So lets say your truck is 5000 lbs,the trailer is 3000,and the bobcat is 3700.This would give you a CGVW of 11,700 Lbs,well over the 10,000 (4500 KG) CVOR limit.

So you will now need the CVOR,and the log books,due to the trailer now being classified as part of the registered GVW.

I would also be careful in picking the registered GVW as you may actually be carrying more than just the bobcat.If your hauling material in the dump trailer,it may be heavier than just the bobcat.I would go close to the max truck GVWR and the max trailer GVWR,which will probably be around 20K+.It may cost you a few more $$ come sticker renewal,but you'll be perfectly legal running the truck\trailer fully loaded.One overweight fine would far outweigh the difference in the extra sticker renewal price for a higher registered GVW.It's also one less black moark on your CVOR record,which insurers can use against you.

If your still confused,give me a ring,and we can discuss it.It gets confusing sometimes trying to type it all out.

[synner]

excellent info for all, we were pulled over this summer and had the once and then the twice over by the officer. 300 bucks and an hour and a half later we unloaded the trailer and went to get a different truck. Always better to error on the side of caution when hooking up trailers and hauling any kind of weight.

[cutntrim]

Chris, that's definately a good idea to not forget about being loaded down with aggregates when figuring out what weight to get stickered for. The annoying thing is that back last fall, I originally sent in my CVOR application and went ahead and stickered the trucks for 8,000kg if I remember right. Then I reversed it after realizing I didn't need the higher weight for just my float trailers and mowers. Now that I will need the CVOR, I'll have to go through it all over again.

Oh, my guys got pulled over for a spot check in the '04 GMC with trailer and mowers earlier this season. The MTO officer took a quick look at the truck and trailer and let them go, saying it's a new truck so it wasn't necessary to do a full inspection. Lucky I guess, although I'm sure it would likely have passed anyhow.

[wyldman]

I got pulled over in my Dodge,when it was just over a year old,and they did the full inspection deal.I had just done my own inspection sticker too.They got real picky on the rear brake adjustment,and I disagreed,as as tight as they wanted it,the brakes would drag,and you'd get a pulsation.I didn't tell him I was a licensed tech until that point,and they let me go.All that work for nothing. :rolleyes:

They also frown upon using any sort of anti-sieze on wheel studs,as according to them,they should be dry.If you leave em dry,they NEVER come off.I was only warned for that one. :confused:

[Beast12]

Originally posted by wyldman

They also frown upon using any sort of anti-sieze on wheel studs,as according to them,they should be dry.If you leave em dry,they NEVER come off.I was only warned for that one. :confused:

What?!?! I use anti-seize on wheel studs as well. Makes it MUCH easier for taking the nuts off next time....... Stupid MTO! :rolleyes:

-Matt :canada

[wyldman]

Yup,according to their book,no oil,anti-sieze,or any type of lubricant or threadlocker may be used on any wheel stud or attaching bolt.

I can see their point,as any applied lubricant will allow the bolt to be "tightened" more at the specified torque (which is usually a dry spec),which could lead to fractured wheel studs.Just gotta be careful when torquing them.