First time out with u-edge

[sschario]

I remember another thread with a similar subject, but my experiences were not as good. Mine is on a 7.5 Western, 1.5 inches below the moldboard. I had a terrible time scrapping clean. I had places where I would backdrag to the street and when I went to push the pile to the side, it just road up over the pile leaving a hard packed mound that I could not budge.

Sometimes it did backdrag pretty well, but if it found any reason to ride up on something, it was all over. Couldn't get it up going either direction. I got a square-edged shovel and the hardpack just popped up real easy. But I spent way too much time out with the shovel.

After my drives were done, I spent a few hours at WalMart which went pretty well. It was more like slush as it was rather warm and had been salted. I did actually have trouble sometimes knowing if the blade was on the ground.

So, is there something wrong with my install? I have read about the edge breaking-in. Does the scrapping ability improve as it wears to get the leading edge closer to the ground? Should I cut an angle into the bottom so that it is parallel with the ground? Is there anything I can do differently?

I love how quiet it is for the middle of the night driveways and I think I may have sold some accounts on the fact that I won't mark the driveways up. But I can't take on any more accounts if I have to spend this much time with a shovel at each house.

Steve

[BWhite]

Steve . Did you wear the edge in ? If not , I cant see how it could scrape . I didnt get a chance to mount my U edge on my new X blade . Soon I hope .

[digger242j]

This was our first storm using a U edge too. One of the other guys got to drive that truck, so I didn't really get a feel for it over the major part of the plowing. His reaction was that it didn't scrape quite as well as a steel edge.

I got to take that truck out this morning to do some touch up work. What had been heavy wet snow yesterday had frozen overnight. It was never really hardpacked snow either yesterday or this morning, so I can't comment on how it would work on that, but for the refrozen stuff I was touching up this morning, I'd say the U edge was about 90% as good at scraping as a steel edge. The difference in how much easier it will be on the truck was readily apparent though. Where I was touching up was some of the worst pavement we have to plow, and the U edge performed as advertised.

One of the other trucks has a brand new steel edge on it. This was the first storm for that edge as well. They'll both probably get very similar hours of use put on them, so it should be easy to gauge how well they wear in comparison to one another.

The U edge has a few nicks at either end, but no noticable wear otherwise. BTW, this is the one I was asking the mounting questions about last week. I didn't have time to get any steel to put behind it, nor did I have any chance to wear it in at all. It doesn't seem to have made any difference though.

My first impression of the U edge is a positive one. :)

[sschario]

Bill,

I wore it in enough to get it to stop chattering. We had a dusting last week and I ran it down the road a few times. That was enough to make it stop chattering, but you can hardly see the wear on the edge. It's not like it is worn down so that the front edge contacts the ground first though.

digger,

Did you cut the botom edge so that the leading edge hits the pavement first, or is it on the heel?


Steve

[Adams Plowing]

Ive heard of a few people triming the edge of the u-edge to get it a little closer to the attack angle to get a little better preformance from the start...

[handyhaver]

Steve,

Last year I had some of the same problems you just mentioned with mine.

I think I have my problems worked out. I have a Meyers st90. Not a real heavy plow. I added more weight to it this year and also ran a power planer down the edge a few time to get a better edge. I was very happy with the results. Just finished plowing our first event of the year, worked great!! Once you get the bugs worked out, metal will be a thing of the past.

Mark

[WoofsPlow]

This is my first year with the u-edge (totaly broken-in). The major benefit I see is that it absorbs alot better than steel, taking alot of the load of the frame and your fillings. It does not seem to scrape as good as steel, but I am comparing an 8'HD plow with a 6.9' LD plow. Overall I was happy with the u-edge. I just love clean asphalt so I may be a little picky. Half the dives I do are either dirt or blue stone (hate it) the u-edge is the way to go with these.

[BRL]

Well I'm into my 4th or so season of using urethane and I can't say enough how happy I am with their performance during this past storm, and how much they deflect the abuse of plowing away from the plows & the trucks (and us drivers too while we're at it). Each of the edges I have used needed a storm or 2 or 3 to break in and really be performing correctly (usually 20 -30 hours of plow time per unit per storm) . Those first couple of storms are certainly annoying, but long forgotten once they are worn in. For this storm I replaced the 1" thick urethane on my wings with 1.5" thick pieces because the 1" thick would fold back more than I liked. This time I did cut a slight angle into the bottom of those pieces to help quicken the break in period. Also, when I had put on the 1" pieces they created a ton of chatter, even though the plow edge was already broken in. Cutting that bevel into them made a great difference & there was no chatter & the wing pieces worked perfect. So if I am ever putting a new edge on or flipping one of these over, I will be cutting the beveled edge into it. And I definitely would recommend that to others to cut down on the break in time. When I'm less tired & thinking clearly again, I'll post the angle tha I used for the wings because it worked perfectly. I didn't cut off the whole bottom of them, and i don't believe that is needed with a plow edge either.

[Snoworks]

I don't think you will ever get great results backdragging with a U-edge and a front plow, in wet/heavy snow conditions. The last four years we have used U-edges on front and rear plows.

When there are wet/heavy snow conditions, and we have to backdrag with a front plow, we have always had the same problem as sschario described. This poor scaping condition, in wet/heavy snow, will improve a little once the u-edge is wore in. But it will never scrape well while backdragging, IMO.

Chuck B.

[BRL]

LOL I made a few posts mentioning how great they back drag in a recent back drag thread. That was comparing the performance against the steel edges that were on those plows before I switched. But maybe they perform differently for each type\brand of plow and results can & will vary.

[gvlawncare]

I've debated getting a u-edge for almost a year now. I think it's finally time to take the plunge. The benefits seem to out-weigh the cons. I know they are better than a steel edge for plowing stone, but how does it do on washed pea stone? I don't understand why people put that in their driveway, but it is a royal pain.

[Snoworks]

BRL - Our experience with u-edges, and backdragging with them, have exceeded our expectations. If lower moisture content snow falls, the u-edge will do a better job of backdragging that steel!

Chuck B.

[WoofsPlow]

BRL - What did you use to cut your u-edge, was it a circular saw, if so what type of blade? Pea stone would be similiar to the blue stone some people use around here. I raise the blade a minimum and backdrag when I am done. You will always pick some stone up. I just have my shovel boy but it back as best as possible. I always tell the customer the potential for digging up the stone and they always already know " I don't know why I ever put this stuff down"

[sschario]

Thanks for all the feedback. I am very interested to see how it works in different conditions. This was definitely a wet, heavy snow.

I'm not giving up yet!

Steve

[BRL]

Use a circular saw with carbide tipped combo blade to cut the urethane. I have found that the urethane works better in the heavy wet snows, opposite of the other comments. They act like a squeegy in those conditions IMO. (AFTER the break in period though) Not sure why there would be a difference. :beatsme

[Snoworks]

BRL - When you refer to u-edges working better in heavy/wet snow, is that when plowing or backdragging or both?

I have five size plows: Western 8' uni-mount, Western 6'-6" uni-mount(standard), Western 6'-6" uni-mount(utility blade), Snoway 6'-8", and a FFC for my Skid steer. All plow heavy wet snow exceptional while going forward, its back dragging where we have had problems.

What happens is after a certain length of back dragging, the plows raise off of the pavement, just like a standard plow with a steel edge. The difference is that the mound, pile, or what ever you call it, left behind, gets very compacted. This is different from what we have experienced with steel edges. When you try and plow forward to remove the mound, it takes several attempts to remove it!

This is different from what we have experienced with steel edges.
Yes the steel will lift of the pavement to, after backdragging, but it does not leave half as bad as a mess than the u-edges do.

Chuck b.

[Alan]

Originally posted by sschario

So, is there something wrong with my install? I have read about the edge breaking-in. Does the scrapping ability improve as it wears to get the leading edge closer to the ground? Should I cut an angle into the bottom so that it is parallel with the ground? Is there anything I can do differently?

I love how quiet it is for the middle of the night driveways and I think I may have sold some accounts on the fact that I won't mark the driveways up. But I can't take on any more accounts if I have to spend this much time with a shovel at each house.

Steve

I did my first edge without cutting a starting angle on it, and I got pretty poor results until it had worn to where the front of the edge was hitting the ground. What happens is that the rear touches and holds the front of the edge up just a little. That makes a nice trowel to butter snow down with. Now I cut them on a bevel and go away with that problem right off.

Yesterday I had a backhoe moving some piles for me and had him make a few passes across some heavy slush on the lot. With my well worn in U-edge I could squeegee the slop off far better than he could with all the downpressure the machine could apply. Between the U-edge and the downpressure on my Sno-Way I was only leaving what material was in the texture of the pavement.

[sschario]

Alan,

How are you cutting that bevel? Are you using a circular saw and setting the angle on the saw or is there a better way?

Steve

[BRL]

sschario,
Yes, honest, use the circular saw with the carbide tipped combo blade & set the angle. Just giving it a little bit of an angle will help with the break in period. I don't belive you need to take off a lot of angle that gets you all the way to the front edge, but maybe Alan or Dino or Tom can expand on that & verify that.

Snoworks,
I was referring to both. But I have experienced what you are explaining as well, so now I see what you are saying. Because the urethane has a larger area in contact with the surface, it compacts the snow as it rides over it moreso than a steel edge does (especially the wet & heavy stuff that we already all know makes for good snow balls & snow men) . So once a plow is riding up on the snow pack, I agree that steel will create less of a problem with that particular situation.

So what I have learned to do is try to avoid that situation. Which brings me to a question I have come up with in all of the back dragging discussions lately. How big of runs are people doing in a back drag? Once there is a large amount of snow piled up there, the plows are going to float up onto it, because the plows are not designed to pull snow, but to push it. So my theory & my plowing process has always been to back drag where needed, but only inefficiently and less safely back drag the minimum amount required to get the situation set up for the more the efficient, safer forward plowing. I try not to back drag all the way across the lots, which some of the posts with people so concerned about backdragging are leading me to believe happens. This means we back drag only as far as we need to get the trucks in there to then push the snow, as the plows are designed to do (this means a truck's length worth of back dragging usually, sometimes a little more if trailers are in the way etc.) Then even with driveways, if the conditions are wet & heavy and they would create this problem I back drag until there's room to back the truck in, then push the snow out. This is less efficient obviously as i would have to turn around & make 2 passes, but I don't do many driveways & its not that often that conditions warrant that method. If I did do a lot of resi's I would use pull plows, which are designed specifically for this purpose and would result in profitable results. In the parking lots, most times we are able to back drag a few feet & then start running forward runs angling away from the buildings, trailers obstacles etc., so it is easier to deal with than driveways with all of the extra room to manuveur. So those are my thoughts on this problem & how to deal with it.

Forgot, salting with the storm also has resulted in this happening a lot less than it needs to. The snow stays slushy & soft enough to not compact like described.

[Snoworks]

For what its worth, we have had some problems with our rear plows, in wet heavy snowfalls as well. When we drag out a driveway, we typically drag and raise on the fly. Which creates an even worse mound, pile of concrete(LOL), where the raising occured. Basically the pressure of the snow going under the rear plow, and the movement of the truck, created a really good grooming affect (For all you snowmoblilers out there).

When this type of snow is falling, we will stop the trucks completely and then raise the rear plows. This has helped eliminate the humps in clients driveways!:D

Chuck B.

[BWhite]

I also had some trouble with my backplow this past storm 17+ in . The heavy wt snow was a bit much to move with the back and front plows down had to take it in smaller bites . I will have to get my uedge mounted soon

[WoofsPlow]

I only backdrag in front of garages:headwall and only to the point where I can push the snow out of the way - 4ft maybe. It also helps to have a son with a shovel. A benefit of the u-edge and the backdrag problems is that I also typically backdrag the entire drive when I'm done and it leaves the drive cleaner looking.

[snowplowjay]

Im still waiting (its been over a year now) for the information to come in the mail. I think SOMEONE forgot to send the literature my way........again :nope



Oh well

After my lil mishap this storm I ordered another Steel edge so its all good


Jay

[BRL]

Jay,
What literature are you waiting for?

[snowplowjay]

The U edge literature that DINO promised me way back when.



Jay

[PineIsland]

We would hate to have you "uninformed" :)

Shoot me a PM with your address is you still want some of our info...

[BRL]

http://www.sarbek.com/ice_snow/index.shtml

Most of what's in the brochures is here on their site. You can also make a request through the site to get more information.

[urethane dino]

To be totally honest the info you read here, is way more infomational and insightfull than the brouchures from MPT that I have. But if really still want them, email me with your adress, and I promise I will get them out.
Dino

[BRL]

Good point, there is more info in this thread than in the brochures. The only thing not here is specifically which type and thickness of urethane to order for your particular equipment & application, and how to determine the correct size to order for your equipment. And that stuff you can get walked through by whomever you order from at the time of purchase.

[snowplowjay]

Originally posted by urethane dino
To be totally honest the info you read here, is way more infomational and insightfull than the brouchures from MPT that I have. But if really still want them, email me with your adress, and I promise I will get them out.
Dino


Its ok Dino.... I just had to bust your balls a little bit.


I have learned a great deal about U edges on here and keep learning more everyday.


If I get a blizzard as my next plow I may consider fabbing up some kind of U edge for the wings.



Jay

[Highpoint]

I just wanted to chime in on our use of the U-Edge. We orderd one last year. Installed a 1.5" x 10 feet on our 9.5 Meyer. Used it on last 2 storms of last year and again 2 days ago. Each time, unit ran for approx 12 hours mostly on concrete roads. Driver reports that he will never want to go back to steel!. We are going to have to flip over the edge before the next storm though. I figure we will be able to get approx. 100 hours before we have to pitch and buy another. Not bad considering same truck and driver were going through steel edges every other storm! I like it!:D

[Gregg Blair]

I don't usually get involved in these threads, because I agree with most everything Dino has to say about urethane edges and most of the guys (people) here trust him.

For those of you who haven't met me, I work for Superior Engineered Elastomers, and we manufacture the Polar Edge urethane cutting edges. As it pertains to this thread, I'm not completely sure of MPT or Fall Lines capabilities, but we have been molding attack angles in blades for years. If when ordering you stipulate the angle you require, we can help you to eliminate the need to cut it in before mounting.

[urethane dino]

As regards urethane, some might feel that I would not welcome Gregg into these types of forums or discussions. However from a consumers point of view his input is vital. I know urethane from an end users point of view, where as Gregg can tell us the whys and hows of how urethane works the way it does.
Thanks for your imput Gregg, welcome to our silly cyber plow world.
Dino

[cardoctor]

Originally posted by snowplowjay
Im still waiting (its been over a year now) for the information to come in the mail. I think SOMEONE forgot to send the literature my way........again :nope



Oh well

After my lil mishap this storm I ordered another Steel edge so its all good


Jay
jay
if you show up at the bbq next year bring about $300
with you so you can take one home
john

[BRL]

Hi Gregg & Welcome to SC.com

Thanks for joining us & we look forward to your input.

[Honest Mike]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by snowplowjay
[B]Its ok Dino.... I just had to bust your balls a little bit


We can say that on here?? So that means I can say this to BRL: Balls and all!!!!!!!! Mike :D :D

[HugePiles]

Trying to plow untreated , rolled over compacted snow and ice with a plastic edge.

Now try a steel edge , the one that comes STOCK with your blade.

Unless your plowing an expensive pavered drive or have a 2000 lb. blade or more , I'd say "stay clear of plastic".

[PineIsland]

Tough making 9 FOOT PILES with a "plastic" edge, eh ?

[Waterchikn]

Thats funny. I would have to try something before having an opinion on it, at least that would be logical. I can't wait to try the u edge, I am looking forward to all the advantages! Thanks for all the info.

[Gregg Blair]

I think there is definitely confusion with some of the guys new to these conversations. Urethane edges are not "plastic." Urethane is an elastomer that reacts much like rubber, however, it holds it's shape much better, and in some applications it outlasts rubber by over 10 times.

There are guys who swear by steel, and there are guys who swear by polyethylene (plastic) edges. There are guys who use rubber, just because they think it's cheaper and there's no way they would pay the price for a urethane edge. We all have our opinions. Further, the contractors on this sight plow in a vast array of different applications, and therefore the need for different equipment. My comment to HugePiles is try to plow in a new home development at 3 A.M. without waking your customers with a steel edge. Try to plow a shopping center parking lot and limit the damage to curbs with a steel edge. In your applications, in your environment, urethane may not be right for you. But I've had many, many guys share your same opinion, but it changes once they give the urethane a chance.

[BRL]

Gregg,
Great post. However, I don't believe Santo (aka WalkingMan from here, 9'Piles, Cletis, Diesl, and many other user names at Plow Site) cares or would even consider to read your reply, based on his past actions at these sites. :rolleyes: Hopefully others got something from your post.

And Santo et al,
When I have used steel edges in the situation you describe, they didn't clear to pavement either. That's why I don't have\service any "untreated" lots anymore (untreated also means unsafe for the clients & their visitors, employees etc. as well).

[BWhite]

Thanks for that intelligent post . I am trying a U edge and so far I like its performance . Many of these anti anything posts are just human nature . Most humans resist change , and will refuse to believe that maybe it might work