Locking Differential for plowing? yes or no whats your thoughts?

[mdd]

maybe in the market for a new truck soon.. cant decide if i'd like a locking rear diff or not

what are your guys experiences plowing with them vs without them

[wyldman]

Yes,they are usually preferred for a plow truck.Do a search,it has been discussed in detail before.

Welcome to the site BTW.

[BWhite]

Traction,Traction,Traction

[mdd]

thanks wyld for the welcome.. i did a search and only hit on 22 threads none of which really hitting on the topic


thanks!

[cat320]

It is a must have option I think for plowing.If you are gonna order a new truck I would get it if you buying off the lot most likely it has already been speced out by the dealer.Or if you get one with out it you can always ad like PSD350 did on the site . he posted pics of his .

[Honest Mike]

Definitely a must have. In my opinion, its a cheap option, might as well get it. :nodd Mike :)

[bud16415]

MDD welcome to LTS

You said a locking rear differential. I assuming you are talking a limited slip or what they used to call posi-traction. If that is the case then I would say yes get it. In 2000 on my GMC it was only a $250 adder and well worth the money IMO. There are a few drawbacks but I think the good outweighs the bad. The main drawback even though I don’t find it as being much of one is I’m told that if you find yourself on ice and on a side hill say and you gas it hard enough to break both rear tires loose you will loose the rear end to the slope. I have one corner I take every day where there is a manhole cover I seem to hit with the right rear tire and if it’s iced up I get a little side bump there.

There are full lockers also. Do a search on limited slip I just did and there are some good reads.

Bud

[mdd]

thanks for the reply bud.. yea limited slip.. chevy 250$ option same as you got i'm sure.

i also herd about the rear end slippin out which is part of the reason why i asked

i wanted to hear about it since its also going to be my daily driver

[bud16415]

MDD

Mine has 100 000 on it now no problems. Get it for sure you wont regret it.
As long as you are at it tell us about the rest of the truck you are getting and what type plow etc you are thinking. I’m sure you will get some good feed back.

Good luck

Bud

[wyldman]

thanks for the reply bud.. yea limited slip.. chevy 250$ option same as you got i'm sure.

i also herd about the rear end slippin out which is part of the reason why i asked

i wanted to hear about it since its also going to be my daily driver

If your really worried,and want the best,then skip the factory limited slip and go with an ARB air locker.Then you have full control of the rearend.

[PSDF350]

If your really worried,and want the best,then skip the factory limited slip and go with an ARB air locker.Then you have full control of the rearend.
thats what I did and couldn't be happier. it is open when not needing, locked when needs to be locked.

[mdd]

that is an awesome setup, but i just did a quick search and it shows a 750$ price! i'll stick with the limited! ;)

[mdd]

As long as you are at it tell us about the rest of the truck you are getting and what type plow etc you are thinking. I’m sure you will get some good feed back.



2500 HD ext cab standard bed.

LS package
deep tint windows
want to get 3.73s
locking rear diff
6.0L V8
4-SPD auto
elec shift Xfer case
snow plow prep
possible trailoring package

going to put a 8' poly superduty boss straight blade on it.

not sure if i will get the trailoring package, since i will likely be buying the boss spreader also which gets its own receiver swapping out the stock one if i understand correctly. however, i would like to have to wiring there so i may just get it

[bud16415]

MDD

Sounds nice I like the 3.73’s will u be putting a tall tire on? I run 235 85 16 and with the rear end and the overdrive you will do pretty fair on gas I think. Don’t expect to be laying rubber all over but it’s nice to be going along 65 and hardly see the RPM’s up

Shoot for the trailer package I don’t know about the hitch having to be changed and I don’t even know if the trailer package gives you the wiring it didn’t on mine but its not a big deal they plug right in. but the beefed up springs are a plus. The guys will tell you for sure how the Boss spreader mounts and if you use a stock receiver.

Are you finding like I did that there isn’t a heck of a big difference in cost jumping up to a ¾ ton from a half. At least around Erie all the half’s are tricked out so much I was finding all kind of 2500’s for the same price.

Hope you stick around and post some pictures when you get her home.

Bud

[Anthony Orlando]

I think we all would like to have the 3.73 rearend for a little better mileage but i was told that is not available unless you spring for the diesel upgrade. I have tried to get one for the last two trucks I bought. Right now I have the 2500HD with the 6.0 liter and 4.11's. Gas mileage is a joke. :headwall

[Tileman]

Yes once you have plowed with a diff lock you will never go back to an open rear end.


Rich

[bud16415]

I think we all would like to have the 3.73 rearend for a little better mileage but i was told that is not available unless you spring for the diesel upgrade. I have tried to get one for the last two trucks I bought. Right now I have the 2500HD with the 6.0 liter and 4.11's. Gas mileage is a joke. :headwall


Do any of you know anymore about why a (3.73) would not be available on a gas truck?

Bud

[Anthony Orlando]

My thought is that they are concerned about the hard labor the 2500HD will be put through so they are protecting themselves from all kinds of warranty issues. They are probably looking at the towing aspect and the diesel engine has more torque thus allowing you to match up the higher rearends to the more powerful motor. I think that the 6.0 liter is plenty capable even with the 3.73 rearend but they are erring on the side of caution. Remember they dont care about mileage. We are supposed to expect to pay the supreme price because we bought a work truck. :fuming

[John DiMartino]

The 3.73 isnt offered in the 2500HD 6.0 because they learned from the there experience with the 2500 8600GVWR they built from 99-2002.They offered the 3.73 on that model,and got a lot of complaints of low power,and the truck woudlnt hold OD on slight hills, the mileage wasnt much better either,the customers who ordered 4.10s were much happier.The 2500 HD sat higher,and weighs more than the 2500,so it was only going to be more of a problem with 3.73.If you want 3.73 you need to get an engine that can pull it, the 8100 or Dmax,either one has the 3.73 option.Sometimes the smaller engine doesnt get the best economy,if it has to rev much higher,and work hard,in big vehicles it may get worse mileage esp on the highway than the smaller engine.

[bud16415]

Did they also change the OD ratio when they went to the 2500HD 6.0? My 5.7, 2500 8600GVW has (3.73)

I’m sure the 6.0 makes close to 25% or more power and I don’t really see a lack of power for the type of truck it is. I have taken it down thru WV and at 65 mph with cruse on I don’t see it shifting down all that much. When I do pull a heavy trailer I don’t put it in OD.

I guess I’m a little shocked you can’t buy the 3.73 as an option anymore. If I lived in Kansas or Texas I would think it would be a must.

Bud

[BROKER]

thats what I did and couldn't be happier. it is open when not needing, locked when needs to be locked.
Who installed it for you and where did you buy it.

[mdd]

i've talked to two dealers now. one says i can order 3.73s and the other says it is only 4.10s

:( :(

[bud16415]

MDD

I looked on line tonight and GMC says 4.10 and that’s it on the 6.0

The bigger gasser you can get it but that’s a lot a motor.

Tonight on the way home I set the cruse to see what RPM’s I was running at for comparison I locked it in at 2000 RPM and it ran 65 mph right on the mark. To me that’s like a perfect combo for road driving. IMO That was with the plow on also.

Bud

[PSDF350]

broker I bought it from randys ring and pinion. had it installed by Gunseths 4x4.

[wyldman]

Click here (http://www.letstalksnow.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4122&highlight=install) to see Dave's install pics.

[PSDF350]

Thank You for posting link Chris.

[BROKER]

broker I bought it from randys ring and pinion. had it installed by Gunseths 4x4.

North of Keene somewhere ? How much for materials? How much for install ?
Did you ever price out doing the front ?

Thanks alot guys. If its resonable I'm gona do front and rear axel on one truck .

[wyldman]

If you do the front,DO NOT lock it when plowing.Only use it when your stuck,or really need it,like off roading in REAL slippery conditions.

If you use it when plowing,you do some major front driveline damage with it locked.

[BROKER]

This truck does not plow. It's an pic of it last year. I'll get a recent pic of it.

It's used for just running around jobsites and on my private property mostly , it's basically a spare truck.

[PSDF350]

broker yes it is just north of keene. it was about 400 for install. but if I do do the front it will be cheaper becuase they wont have to install compressor again.

[PSDF350]

oh yea nice spare truck

[Big Nate's Plowing]

If you do the front,DO NOT lock it when plowing.Only use it when your stuck,or really need it,like off roading in REAL slippery conditions.

If you use it when plowing,you do some major front driveline damage with it locked.

with the arb locked they will be locked together and unless you are on ice or mud you will break ujoints & axleshafts at the minimum

[derekbroerse]

I plowed with my truck for several years with the open differential--really was quite doable but it needed a lot of ballast to be useful and always in 4wd.

This season I added a Powertrax Lockright locker... Night and day difference in plowing grip. I use 2wd most of the time and use only my shovels and such for ballast now (other than the first lot of the night that uses salt so the loaded barrels are on board).

This translates into a fuel savings because my area is rather large and spread out, and includes driving up the Niagara Escarpment (large uphill portion). This was also coupled with my new larger engine so I would attribute fuel savings to that too but standard physics tells us that a truck weighing 12k lbs takes more energy to move than a truck weighing 8k lbs..

That being said, the traction of this style locker is fantastic, but I absolutely hate its dry weather driving--very clunky and jerky. Possibly a result of my combination (dually, standard tranny, heavy truck) but its not nice. I would much prefer a regular limited slip diff since my offroading is minimal it is doubtful that its shortcomings will ever surface. I love the ARB setup but the price is just too high. Just a note too, I have found on slick roads, trying to turn from a stopsign or light that the truck wants to understeer because my rears have so much more grip than the front--the full locker won't ratchet unless you release the throttle which defeats the purpose of pulling away from a stop :grinz

As for the front axle, you won't need it for plowing... this is more of an offroader's setup. Let me assure you that even a Dana 60 front is not unbreakable (I tore up a pair of axle shafts just plowing with the open diff) and locking the front will only assure it happens sooner. If you buy the ARB setup the front would be an emergency only kind of button, not really worth the extra $$$ IMO (Usually if you are stuck so bad that 3 tires won't get you out, probably four won't either :p). If you absolutely MUST have a front unit I would prefer to see a limited slip unit as it can slip the clutches and add some 'give' to the assembly should it gain grip.

[bud16415]

The 3.73 isnt offered in the 2500HD 6.0 because they learned from the there experience with the 2500 8600GVWR they built from 99-2002.They offered the 3.73 on that model,and got a lot of complaints of low power,and the truck woudlnt hold OD on slight hills, the mileage wasnt much better either,the customers who ordered 4.10s were much happier.The 2500 HD sat higher,and weighs more than the 2500,so it was only going to be more of a problem with 3.73.If you want 3.73 you need to get an engine that can pull it, the 8100 or Dmax,either one has the 3.73 option.Sometimes the smaller engine doesnt get the best economy,if it has to rev much higher,and work hard,in big vehicles it may get worse mileage esp on the highway than the smaller engine.


My friend has a newer 6.0 with the 4.10 rear end and he’ been complaining about mileage so we talked about doing a non scientific test me with my 5.7 with the 3.73
We have same tires so its pretty much apples to apples. I told him I ran 65MPH at 2000RPM so he saw what it would take to hit 65MPH and he had to run 2300 RPM it didn’t seem like that was a big deal only 300RPM so I tried 2300 last night same road for both of us and at 2300 I was doing 76MPH. Factoring in the amount the tires throw it off I was going close to 80 in the real world.

I know John said there were some problems with being under powered but I don’t really see it. As for how it affects MPG between the two trucks I’m not sure but a smaller engine running at a lower RPM moving the same weight down the same road seems like it should be getting better MPG. In hilly country or pulling hard might tip it the other way.

Bud

[John DiMartino]

Bud, not that there were a lot of problems,but when the NBS 2500s came out in 99,there was no big block,and a lot of guyd were towing heavy with them(over 8000), the 3.73 wasnt cutting it.Also By owners reports,and GMs own testing the 6.0 didnt get any worse MPG on average with 4.10s than 3.73,the only place there was a difference was extended highway running. Even empty the 3.73 trucks would cycle in and out of lockup on hills into slight headwinds a lot more than 4.10 trucks.If you go into edmunds.com and go into the forums section, back a few yrs ago before the HD was out i was seriously considering a 99-2000 chevy 2500 NBS 4 door excab truck,I did a lot of research on this powertrain,and i came to the conclusion i was ordering 4.10s if I had a choice.

[bud16415]

I was running home last night on I 90 and thought I would jot down my RPM / Speed running in 3rd gear compared to OD both were with CC set and level road. 5.7 with 3.73 and 235-85-16 tires.

As I posted above in OD
2000 = 65
2300 = 76
(side note PA state law prohibited me doing 2500 and 3000)

In 3rd
2000 = 50
2300 = 58
2500 = 63
3000 = 75

I don’t pull heavy a lot. And normally run in OD. But when I pull the backhoe a couple times a year a good distance I do run in 3rd in that 2300 RPM range. 55MPH with that load is all I feel comfortable doing anyways.

What it seems like with the 6.0 (more power) and the 4.10 (more torque) combo they are bringing the OD into the torque range for pulling at highway speeds of my 3rd gear or closer to it. With that combo I don’t see many guys running in 3rd ever as it would be real slow and more torque than the truck could handle pulling. The down side is for the guy that’s not working his truck hard all the time, has a more conservative driving style and does a good deal of highway driving.

That’s only half of the story though the 4.10’s affect all the gears not just highway gears. When I watch a lot of trucks in city driving every day I notice most like to jump off the blocks pretty good at the lights and keep pace with smaller lighter cars. That feel I’m sure factored into GM’s deciding to leave out the 3.73’s.

Bud

[Anthony Orlando]

All it would take to fix this argument is to allow us to choose when ordering a new truck.The guy pulling alot of weight regularly would opt for the 4.10's and the guy just using it for plowing and lighter duty would opt for the 3.73's. The guy buying one used later would not have this choice but that is part of buying used.The 6.0 has plenty of power and we need all the mileage we can get. i believe they put the 3.43's in half tons with the 5.3 liter. You know that alot of people pull very heavy items with those also. I am just steamed that you can have 50 interior options but when it comes to important items they limit you. :headwall

[bud16415]

Anthony

You are right its not until you get to the 2500HD and 3500 that they lock you into the 4.10 only with the Vortec 6000 V8.
Depending on what truck in the 1500 series I see 3.23, 3.42, 3.73, 4.10 all listed.

I haven’t owned or driven a 2500HD 6.0 with the 4.10 so I cant really say as to what MPG issues are but my friend that trades every 2 years and has driven GM trucks for 30 years said if he wasn’t going to trade it he would look at swapping out both gear sets if he could. And is not real happy that he has no selection on his new one ether.

I personally am not a big MPG watcher I kind of think it beats you up to know almost. But next few fill ups I’m going to check mine and see what I’m getting so I can compare with him. I’ll post back when I do.

Bud

[EZSnow]

Bud, the 5.7 really doesn't parallel all that well to the 5.3/6.0 engines. It seems that with the newer engines, you really have to spin the wee out of them to get any power, while the 5.7 makes plenty of grunt down low. I had a 99 2500 with a 6.0 and 3.73s. I never had any complaints about it coming out of OD empty, but my dad's 1997 1500 suburban with a 5.7 and 3.73s outpulled it in OD hands down. The 5.7 had alot more power to give in a part-throttle, low RPM situation. In a full-throttle run, the 6.0 didn't really wake up until it got up over 3,000rpm or better.

Alas, I now burn the green oil, and have no more cares of low rpm power! :burnout

[bud16415]

EZS

When I bought my truck in 2000 I could have went 6.0 in a Chevy or 5.7 still in the GMC it was the transitional year for GM. I was unaware of what you just posted above and made my pick mostly on price, somewhat on knowing the old technology was proven. I remember finding out the new engine had aluminum heads on iron block and I have never been a fan of bolting dissimilar metals together that see wide temp. change.
Plus I wasn’t sure if I liked the new body style all that much. So I went with the Classic.

I have been under the impression all along that the 6.0 was a stronger motor all around than the 5.7 but it sounds like its HP/Torque is somewhat dependent on RPM’s

My thoughts have always been that a truck motor should be a lower RPM higher torque motor and should get its speed thru the gearing. That way you have the low gears with the high torque for work and the high gears for highway speeds and better MPG.

Performance cars would be just opposite quicker rev’s and lower gears for quick starts.

I still don’t understand the thought process behind all this other than GM would want the truck to feel a lot more powerful off the line. Or something. I’ll have to ask my friend to let me drive his 6.0 so I can get a feel for what you are saying.

Bud

[EZSnow]

The 300hp 6.0s were iron-on-iron, the 325hp 6.0s and the 5.3s are aluminum-on-iron, and I *think* the 6.0 in the SSR is all aluminum.

Best I can tell is that the way they are buliding engines now is all based on emissions and advertising. The manufacturers all have to meet the stringent (read: stupid) emissions standards, but still have to have the peak numbers to show for advertising. Well, unless you pull your trailers at WOT, the 300hp 6.0 isn't going to do it any better than the 265hp 5.7- but you'd never know that from the advertising, would you?

[Jerre Heyer]

IAs I posted above in OD
2000 = 65
2300 = 76
(side note PA state law prohibited me doing 2500 and 3000)

Bud


Kinda funny, you worried about the law...LOL Didn't you say to push the envelope in class???

Jerre

[bud16415]

Kinda funny, you worried about the law...LOL Didn't you say to push the envelope in class???

Jerre

Jerre

I did do the testing of the higher RPM’s but was trying set a good example for some of the younger guys on the board, like You and Fred.

As for teaching you and a few of the other guys (I think Jerre knows who I mean) to push the envelope back in the old trade school days. I had no idea what molding fresh young minds could end up turning into.
For those out there that have no idea what this conversation is about just let me say Jerre turned out to be a “establishment conservative” compared to a few of the guys I taught to push that design envelope as apprentices. omg

What was the name of that class again? Oh ya …. (Way Outa the Box Thinking 101)

Bud