Twisted V-blade

[Chris Petersen]

I hit a dranage grate while plowing the other night. It is a 8'2" V blade. It is twisted so when angled to the right it cuts fine, but when angled to the left only the outer 1' is touching the ground. The frame on the truck is fine, and it looks like the frame on the plow is ok too. I think the main pin the attaches the plow frame to the main bulkhead that holds the wings is bent. Everything works fine still, just bent to one side. Anyone else have this problem? What to do now? I got it a year ago new, only 100 hours on it now. Please help.

~Chris

Chrispe455@hotmail.com

[flmusj]

Chris

It sounds like you bent a wing. How is it in scoop, straight and V.

[TLS]

You have to determine wether your T-Frame, Center section or wing is bent. Could be a little of all 3! You have to know your terrain under the snow if your using a BOSS V-plow.

[Fordhipo]

I did the same thing, hit a drain that was never a problem till this one storm. Anyway it was acting the same way as yours and found out the "Pushframe Assembly" was bent.
I set the plow down on level ground unhooked from truck and measured the two pin heights and found one was a little higher.

After the pushframe was removed and just sitting on the ground you could see it was bent. Luckely there is a boss dealer right across the street from the shop and had one. 1/2 hour to swap.

[CT18fireman]

One of the reasons to run a trip edge V like Western or Fisher, The Boss won't trip in V or scoop. Instead you have an expensive repair.

Probably the pushframe.

[BrahmaBull]

It sounds like you bent the pivot pin from the a frame to the wing head. I work on the local cities boss plows and that is what they break on them alot... They will bend in a s shape you have to flip it over and cut it out from the bottom...

[GMC Driver]

I had a driver twist my 8'2" steel V last year. It too had the same symptoms, not sitting flat. I took it all apart, and the wings were both out a bit. It tore the A-frame as well. I took all the pieces to a big steel shop close by. They squared up the A-frame and rewelded it, as well as reinforced it. The wings they had to cut the backing off. They then put them in a 20 ton press, and pressed them straight. They reinforced the wings, and rewelded the backing onto them, also reiforcing this parts. Vic charged me $120 plus tax for all this. And he did it all within a day. The plow works better than before, but it might weigh a couple of extra pounds.

They are fixable, if you can find the right resources. To replace the parts would be big $$$. Good luck!

[SNO]

One of the reasons to run a trip edge V like Western or Fisher, The Boss won't trip in V or scoop.

Yes they will.

When new my plow never tripped, this year I noticed it tripping quite a bit in scoop or V. Springs must be getting weak.

On Another note:

I was regreasing the locking pins the other day and looking things over.

I'm seeing quite a bit of mushrooming and wear on all pins and holes that have movement.

5 rough years of plowing.

I'd estimate within another three years I'll have to beef up with welds and replace some pins.

I've been actually thinking the thing is just getting broke in, seems to work better. :D

[TLS]

Also, as things get looser, it will contour to irregular driveway aprons, etc. better. :D

Scoop is about the safest position to be in if your uncertain of whats under the snow.

The wings will fold back if they hit an obstruction.

[SNO]

Also, as things get looser, it will contour to irregular driveway aprons, etc. better.

I noticed that also...

[derekbroerse]

Originally posted by CT18fireman
One of the reasons to run a trip edge V like Western or Fisher, The Boss won't trip in V or scoop. Instead you have an expensive repair.

Probably the pushframe.


Why does this keep coming up?? The BOSS plow trips just fine in ANY POSITION! It tends to be a bit on the violent side at times (the shock absorber kit would really help that) but it trips when it needs to. The scoop position just forces it to blow the pressure relief valve, straighten the wing, and then trip like a straight blade... hopefully you are in control of your machine enough to stop it before it pushes the wing back all the way and trip, makes it much softer of a 'landing' if you know what I mean.

I really don't know how you guys keep bending and breaking these things. You need to be careful of unknown objects with ANY blade. I could see a trip edge being bent very badly on something like an unseen curb, so they aren't the end-all-be-all design either. My BOSS V blade is on it's 7th or 8th year now and has hit countless manholes, potholes, curbs, ridges, sewer grates, etc. over the years and has yet to require ANY expensive repair. The worst things I have done are break a cutting edge and tear off a shoe bracket. Both were my fault, not the plows.

The only advice I can offer is to know your terrain, and if you are doing a new job, get out and walk it first, talk to the owner if possible about potential obstacles like that, and then plow slowly! Its not worth tearing up the truck and blade on quickie jobs.

[CT18fireman]

It is physically impossible for the plow to full trip in Vee or scoop. The relief valves must first make the plow got back to a straight blade then it will trip. Try putting it in scoop, release all the trip springs and get the plow to lean forward, won't happen.

Bottom line is that it won't trip in Vee or scoop it will fold back then trip. Just as you said. A Fisher or Western V will trip the edge in ANY position.

[Alan]

Originally posted by CT18fireman
Bottom line is that it won't trip in Vee or scoop it will fold back then trip.

So just what's wrong with having the wings fold back and then trip the blade? Granted, it's not tripping in scoop mode but it's still relieving the impact My Snow-Ways let the wings move back and then trip. If it did/could trip in scoop mode it would dump one fine pile of snow for the truck to wallow up on.

[CT18fireman]

There is nothing wrong with it. It is a good design from a company that states they will never make a trip edge V even though they make a trip edge straight blade.

However many people post that it does trip in Vee or Scoop when it does not.

I just cannot stand plowing with a full trip blade, and I have tried many different designs, so a full trip V makes even less sense to me.

[Alan]

Originally posted by CT18fireman
However many people post that it does trip in Vee or Scoop when it does not.

Seems to me that if the design is such that it will allow a wing, pointing forward, to release to a straight position and then tilt forward, that IS how tripping is accomplished in a scoop position.

If you're running scooped and hit an obstacle, and the blade performs, as designed, and trips to relieve the impact, it is, for all practical purposes, tripping in the scoop position. You can split hairs all you want, but it would appear that plentyofpeople consider that series of actions to be accomplishing exactly what the manufacturer claims it does.

[CT18fireman]

The time it takes to split hairs may be the time it takes for the relief valve to blow, if it does and then trip. If that valve does not, then, you break a hose, bend a cylinder, or as many have posted do serious damage to the plow. A hose may be minor, but replacing an a-frame or wing half is not.

[dapgar]

Jesse, I own the plow, I don't have a problem with it's tripping, or non tripping ability. BOTTOM LINE is don't drive/plow like a fool on terrain that you don't know. you can hit plenty of things with a straight blade and mess up your truck/frame/plow too. If you don't like the FULL TRIP V, then don't buy one, don't drive a truck that has one. Plow with something else. I happen to like the plow, and wouldn't own a Fisher or Western V plow. JMO There are +'s and -'s to each and every plow made on this planet. NOTHing is going to be perfect. When people say that it trips in scoop mode, they mean exactly what Alan just stated, the wing goes back to relieve the pressure and then eventually will trip if you continue.

p.s. I think the horse is dead now.

[SNO]

I'm not sure what you run into, but I dont baby my plow at all.

I've had my share of sudden stops but I've never had that kind of damage and I can just imgaine the impact it would take to bend a wing or A frame.

In scoop position, stacking snow into a frozen pile, the blade has tripped several times, granted raised a bit off the ground.

Stacking snow always turns the scoop or angle into a straight.

In scoop, hitting a curb, it doesnt take much to straighten the blade and it's a lot nicer and a more pleasant suprise than a tripped blade.

I've done alot of both.

I dont know about anyone else, but my blade folds back easier than tripping.

I'm not sure in V position, Cant say I've ever hit anything, I dont use it much except for clearing the first path in deep snow or busting through street windrows. But then, if I'm doing that, I'm only moving about 2 MPH anyway.

If someone brought back a plow with a bent wing, I'd can them on the spot cause I know damn well he was plowing too fast or with no respect to safety or others property.

I've already given the plow a shake down, it took all I could give it while operating safely, maybe even just over the not so safely line.

Thats my opinion anyway.

[SNO]

p.s. I think the horse is dead now.

LOL
Dan,
I was typing mine while you slid in and took my spot..

:D

[derekbroerse]

I agree completely with Alan, it does what it is intended to do. I have yet to have a catastrophic valve failure.

OK, here is the scenerio:

A Full trip plow hits an 8" tall curb buried in the deep snow in an unknown parking lot. Blade trips (or straightens first, then trips). Truck stops. Driver backs away feeling like a dumb@ss.

OR:

A trip-edge plow hits an 8" tall curb buried in the deep snow in an unknown parking lot. Edge would like to trip but it isn't physically tall enough to do so. Plow bends, bolts shear. Truck stops. Driver backs away and realizes he's done some major damage to the plow.

Arguements can be made for either style. Each has it's place.

What I don't understand is why they can't make the plow have a two-stage trip ie: trip edge for manhole covers, frozen dirt, gravel, etc. and then in the event that it needs more trip action, the moldboard lays over like a standard plow?

You could have the best of both worlds....

[TLS]

Originally posted by derekbroerse


What I don't understand is why they can't make the plow have a two-stage trip ie: trip edge for manhole covers, frozen dirt, gravel, etc. and then in the event that it needs more trip action, the moldboard lays over like a standard plow?

You could have the best of both worlds....

Derek,

I've been saying that for 5 years on the "other site", probably on here as well. ;)

Always comes up in discussions about tripping.

Anything taller than the hinge on a tripedge is downright dangerous.

[wyldman]

Why have two trip methods if it's totally unneccesary ? The full trip design (most of them),will trip over most obstacles quite well.When set up correctly,they also don't flop over all the time like the older ones.Why add another mechanism which may add room for other failures ?

[TLS]

Wyldman....

I think we were mainly talking about V-Plows.

[BRL]

Along with V plows possibly, I think the concept is to add full trip capabilities to a trip edge plow, so that the plow can trip when hitting curbs etc. that are taller than the trip edge. IMO if you can't see such tall obstructions or aren't familiar with the lot enough to know where such obstructions are, then you need to slow down until conditions allow one to see well enough, or until one is familiar enough with the site.

[derekbroerse]

One of the things I like about a trip edge plow is its ability to trip quickly without losing the whole load of snow. This would be particularly useful for one lot I plow that is actually a glorified ex-farmer's field with a minimal amount of gravel on top.

What I figure is with a two-stage system like described above, each individual cutting edge could trip if they encountered a small obstacle (frozen dirt/gravel clump, sewer grating, manhole cover etc) and allow the truck to keep moving rather than stopping, while a larger obstacle (curb) could trip the moldboard on a heavier springset... more like the tripedge for casual spots and the full trip for emergency @ss-savings.

I don't see why it would be any less reliable, there would just be a few more parts that will eventually wear and break. The way I envision it, the tripedge would do 90% of the work, so likely the full trip mechanism would receive very little wear.

I certainly don't feel like I NEED something like this as I have yet to injure my equipment. Then again, it only takes once, doesn't it? Seems to me like it could be incorporated very easily into existing designs and probably use off-the-shelf parts to simplify things too.

[Mark Oomkes]

What I don't understand is why they can't make the plow have a two-stage trip ie: trip edge for manhole covers, frozen dirt, gravel, etc. and then in the event that it needs more trip action, the moldboard lays over like a standard plow?

You could have the best of both worlds....

Actually, there is a straight blade with a 2 stage trip. It is a SnoKing made by Viking. Pelican has one and so do we. They are straight blades, though. The cutting edge is bolted to a thin piece of urethane which is bolted to the moldboard. This is the first stage, the second stage is a 'torsion bar' is the best way for me to describe it. It is a square tube within a larger square tube that will twist if something immoveable is hit.

I am not convinced that hitting an 8" tall curb with a full trip plow won't result in any damage. If you are going that fast, something is going to happen to the hinge area, on either plow, with something that tall.

I still think we are looking at this argument from the wrong aspect. How many 8" curbs are hit dead on? How many manholes\sewer grates are caught? Personally, I am going to buy something that will withstand 95 or 99% of the abuse it is going to receive as opposed to the 1 or 5% of abuse. If this was the case, we would be putting dozer blades on our trucks so we wouldn't ever damage our plows.

[derekbroerse]

True.

I have had great personal success with my plow and would definately buy another one.

We'll see how things survive when I turn someone else loose at the controls though...

Not sure I understand the first stage of what you are describing. The torsion bar setup you decribe sounds to me like what a lot of small trailers use for suspension instead of leafs.

Are you saying that the cutting edge is able to move around a little on the moldboard via urethane compressing?

:beatsme

[Chuck Smith]

Maybe Pelican can post a pic. What Mark is saying, is that the cutting edge is attached to the moldboard with a urethane "hinge" that runs the length of the moldboard.

~Chuck

[Chuck Smith]

http://www.snowplowing-contractors.com/pelican/snowfighter1.html

You can see the bolts in the first pic here. I don't want to hijack the thread, just show an example.

~Chuck

[Lawn Lad]

I think the two times we've bent the main "A" or push frame on the boss V's is when the wing in question is pulled back all the way and you hit a curb or man hole cover and you don't have the relief of the the wing dropping back. We now only plow along curb lines with the back/rear wing perpindicular to the curb or posiitioned slightly back, but never tucked all the way back - so incase we do hit something along the curb line, sewer grate, etc, the wing will more likely fold back.

I also think you can unknowingly tweak the frame if you have small stress cracks from years of use - and then one large enough impact on a stressed/worn frame will cause it to tweak - where as if the same hit were taken on a new frame this might not have happened. Any thoughts on this?

[GMC Driver]

I inspect my blades regularly - usually when taking them on and off. I have noticed that an A-frame that looked fine before a storm can develop cracks by the end of the next storm. Biggest thing is to keep on top of them. Now that I have had a few, the weaker points of the frame become more apparent. Keep a close eye on them, weld them and re-inforce them when they need it, and they'll be great for a long time. My 7'6" is on its 10th season - and still works fine.

[SNO]

GMC Driver,
Could you post some pics?

I'd like to know what and where to watch.

[GMC Driver]

If you don't mind leaving that with me, I'll post them once I get the time. Right now it looks like we'll pushing again, with the chance for more on Friday.