Insurance (did i hear right)

[76chevyman]

Ok on this site or the other site. someone said that there regular insurance covered plowing as long as you dont plow commercial lots. i beleave this person had allstate and i have allstate. and i gave up all my commercial accounts today:( . And was woundering if i stay residentail. i wont have to pay for GL insurance anymore. much thanks

Rich:burnout

[Adams Plowing]

Regular auto insurance will only cover if you hit something with your truck/plow. It will not cover slip fall which is one of the main purposes of GL asfar as your insurance goes only your agent could tell you best but i have a feeling if your doing a full route of res. customers they are going to require you to carry comm. coverage on your auto. where you can get nailed if you just have reg auto is if you hit something and your ins co finds that you are operating a business with the truck they will deny payment because the truck was improperly insured for what it was being used for. if your only doing 1 or 2 drives you prob would not have too much problem. But still none the less without the GL policy you will have No slip/Fall coverage. your auto policy wont cover that.

[nsmilligan]

Check with your agent, that's what he gets paid the big bucks for. Up here unless you add a snowplow rider to your auto policy you are NOT covered if you plow anything other then your own property. So if you hit a car or the side of a house with the plow, your on your own. Insurance companies have different requirements from state to state, and certainly from Canada to the US, so contact your agent and make sure your covered.

Bill

[Snoworks]

Rich - You were probably reading one of the threads that I responded to.

I have a 500k general liability policy. Other than that, I use 5 trucks on residential accounts only. All trucks are insured through Allstate's regular auto insurance. My agent and I have been through all the plowing/coverage issues, and they will cover me or who ever else is driving my trucks while plowing.

Chuck B.

[CPSS]

Ok on this site or the other site. someone said that there regular insurance covered plowing as long as you dont plow commercial lots.

The term " Commercial Auto" policy has nothing to do with commercial or residential plowing. It refers to the use of the vehicle.

"Personal" use or as some guys here say it, " Regular" auto policy is for the person who drives the vehicle for personal uses, such as going to work, out to dinner, taking the kids to school, etc.

"Commercial" auto policy refers to the commercial use of the vehicle for business, such as a delivery man, plumber, electrician,or snowplowing. If you use the vehicle as part of your business, you need commercial auto. When your agent says you are covered with personal auto insurance, ask him to put it in writing. I think you might then get a different answer.

I've been involved with the insurance audits my company has every year. I know the things the safety auditor likes and dislikes about our contracting business, as well as the snowplowing operations. Your local insurance man is a salesman. He may sometimes tell you what you to hear in order to keep your business.

[slowpoke]

Originally posted by Adams Plowing
Regular auto insurance will only cover if you hit something with your truck/plow. It will not cover slip fall which is one of the main purposes of GL asfar as your insurance goes only your agent could tell you best but i have a feeling if your doing a full route of res. customers they are going to require you to carry comm. coverage on your auto. where you can get nailed if you just have reg auto is if you hit something and your ins co finds that you are operating a business with the truck they will deny payment because the truck was improperly insured for what it was being used for. if your only doing 1 or 2 drives you prob would not have too much problem. But still none the less without the GL policy you will have No slip/Fall coverage. your auto policy wont cover that.

Absolutely Correct! I owned a general agency for many years before a merger. If you do any work for pay you should have General Liability coverage. Your auto policy will only respond to "accidents" not slip and falls, etc. The main reason for the coverage is not necessarily the liability limit but the LEGAL defense provided by your insurance company.

[Snoworks]

I have stated the following in the past:

Allstate and Statefarm will cover my snowplowing vehicals while I am plowing driveways.

When I say this, I am talking about comp/coll. coverage. I have always purchased a commercial liability policy for the season, to cover me on the liability end.

In the last 10 years Statefarm and Allstate (Agents) have stood by there word. I have had three accidents while plowing snow, or at least someone driving my truck has! Each time the insurer has stepped up to pay the claim. I believe I turned each offer down and paid all the damages myself, to keep my rates down.
With each claim the insurer had knowledge of what we were doing when the accident occurred. I always was open with my agents, and they with me, so I never worried about it!

I only carry Commercial vehical insurance on trucks that are used for commercial properties. The reason is of course money. Two years ago I was quoted over $25,000.00 dollars to cover 4 trucks for the season. This was with them writing the policies for Residential work only! This is just not practical, or affordable, in my case. That price puts insurance costs over 30% of my gross revenue for the year.

So now, for me, its just a buisness choice. I have to wiegh the risks of plowing with regular auto insurance. Here is what my agents have told me in the past.

- If the accident is on the road, no problems, you are covered. Period! - Even with someone else driving. No way for them to prove a thing hear in transit.

-If plowing a driveway, what are the risks. Hit a garage door, car, plants, grass, lawn furniture, clean outs, etc. Well some of those things listed are the responsibility of the homeowner/ per my contact. The others most likely can be handled by myself. Yes you could run through the house, or hit a fire hydrant, etc. Since it is a residential area, mainly a driveway. The agent stated the claims would still be paid.

Basically due to the fact that the operations we were performing would not be done not enough times to warrant a red flag or a hazzard, to the insurance company. This same principle was used in explaining why anyone driving my trucks would be covered in the event of an accident. (Example given to me from the Agent: If I had a daughter that just turned 16, and I was going to let her drive it everyday. Then I would have to have her added to my policy, or change it, etc. If the same daughter was only going to be home for the summer because she is out of state, at a prep school. I would not need to add her to my policy, she is covered for occasion driving, under my policy!)

So I choose to use my regular auto insurance carrier. And doing my calcs. I have saved over $140,000.00 in the last 10 years doing so. I think, with all that I explained it has worked for me, even when claims have come up.

In responding to other threads similar to this one, I have asked if there were any other contractors in my position. Mainly to try and compare notes, on insurance issues. I am a snow only company, that deals in about 95% residential plowing. To date, I have not meet anyone, that is similar to my company profile and size.

Hope this clears up some questions.

Chuck B.
;)

[CPSS]

Good luck Chuck. Your agent is the one decieving your insurance company. Your savings of $140K will be quickly swallowed up when the big accident occurs.

[Snoworks]

CPSS - Like I said its a risk evaluation! What are the risks. Well quite honestly, there is nothing in my policy that states they will not cover my while I have a plow on my truck. My insurance agent is the one that explained the coverage issues with me, I did not ask him to try and cover me in case something happened. He simply told me that for my application it would not matter.

With that said, would I like to have commercial insurance on all my trucks in the future. Yes, I would, do the fact that I will be mixing residential and commercial plowing for each of my plow trucks in years to come. I currently have American Family quoting me for all my trucks, and I believe I will be switching over, as soon as the numbers come back to me.

Like I said before, I am no insurance professional. But I did put trust in to what insurance professionals told me. I am learning every day, the do's and don'ts in this industry. I just wanted to clarify any general statements I had made in the past, because I had the time to do so.

Chuck B.

[Snoworks]

On anouther note - what are all us snowplowing professionals going to due when no insurance company will cover us, period. In the past 4 years, I have seen some crazy quotes, come from insurers. In the future, there will be alot of 1 and 2 man truck operations that will not be in buisness due to the $8,000.00 to $16,000.00 insurance tabs.

Chuck B.

[CPSS]

Yes, I would, do the fact that I will be mixing residential and commercial plowing for each of my plow trucks in years to come.

Chuck, this is the part I don't understand. Commercial plowing is when you plow as a business, or collect money for plowing. It has nothing to go with plowing parking lots vs driveways.

I wonder if your agent is getting things mixed up........:confused:

[slowpoke]

adding my .02 worth

Massachusetts auto policies are entirely different than the rest of the country. (old habits die hard). My truck policy is a "personal auto" policy endorsed for business use. I can't even get a real commercial policy with most companies. My plowing is "incidental" to my other uses for my other businesses so I'm covered for all my auto coverages.

My GL policy is issued with a limitation that excludes plowing streets or other public ways. This includes privately owned roads but does not exclude condo associations with "drives". By accepting this limitation my $1M/2M coverage was "only $1145 for the year.

It's all a matter of degree of risk. There is far less risk of suit in just residential driveways, risk notches up a bunch for commercial lots, and then a whole bunch more for traveled ways.

[stackitslamit]

why are you guys crying about insurance premiums? 8-16000 a year for premiums welcome to the world of small buisness.

Stay clear of state frm , american family, go with a company that specializes in commercial covererage. we have Auto Owners.

check with a large insurance company that has a substantial pool of companies to get the best quote.

30% a year for insurance really does not seem unreasonable

remember that youll be out 100% when someone takes everything you own in the courtroom.

get a commerciall umbrella policy 1million umbrella=$1000 rough

im still trying to figure out how 5 trucks do 100.000 + on residentials. must be seasonal contracts. Chicago has only had one event thus far. am i correct

[Snoworks]

Crying about premiums - I highly doubt anyone would be plowing for money if it cost them $10,000 or more to insure one truck. Why would you when the avr truck owner is making $16,000 to $20,000 per truck.

I my experiences with insurures I have had the exact opposite results as you. The large insurance pool company's have given me most of the highest quotes each year.

I hope your joking about the 30% a year comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

American family gave me the following quotes:

-3 million liability/1 each occurrance : $400.00
-Comp. and collision to 1 million : $2,000.00

Stackitslamit -I dont clearly understand your last question. But I can say that the Chicago area has had one plowable event so far.

Chuck B.

[ratlover]

I was under the impression that unless your personal auto insurance has a clause written in that specificly denys plowing snow that they cant deny paying your claim. Be it the cost to fix your truck or the cost of the husband sueing you because you ran over his wife and infant. Your plolicy obviously wont pay slip and fall though....... And once your co. has to pay a claim because you are out doing comercial(driving your vehical and making $$$ with it) work with your "persoanl" vehical they will pay the claim but imediatly cancell your policy and you will be stuck finding another co. and i shudder to think about what you will pay after being cancelled from another co :eek:

Thats the way I understood it any way.....am I wrong?

This is in IL if it matters

[Adams Plowing]

Originally posted by ratlover
I was under the impression that unless your personal auto insurance has a clause written in that specificly denys plowing snow that they cant deny paying your claim. Be it the cost to fix your truck or the cost of the husband sueing you because you ran over his wife and infant. Your plolicy obviously wont pay slip and fall though....... And once your co. has to pay a claim because you are out doing comercial(driving your vehical and making $$$ with it) work with your "persoanl" vehical they will pay the claim but imediatly cancell your policy and you will be stuck finding another co. and i shudder to think about what you will pay after being cancelled from another co :eek:

Thats the way I understood it any way.....am I wrong?

This is in IL if it matters

No if they find out your useing you truck to make money it has to be insured as a commercial/business use vechicle or they wont pay the claim now if you were just plowing your drive and or a friend/neibor for free and you ran over his wife they would pay the claim... and you might even get a thankyou card from the husband depending on how much he liked his wife lmao...