AirFlo trouble first day out

[cutntrim]

Had a little snow yesterday so I loaded up my new AirFlo stainless with 2yds and headed out to see what she could do. Worked great at the first two properties but at the third I went to engage the spreader cluch and...nothing happened. Just a "clunk" noise without any salt being spread.

Jammed up? Nope. Opened the gate all the way and the salt was flowing freely. What the heck!?! Too cold to stand around trying to figure it out, called my dealer and said "I'm coming in and I'm not happy!"

He had me try to engage the clutch with him at the rear of the spreader and by watching he was able to see the problem. The driveshaft has two "pins" through it where it exits the gear box above and to the side of the spinner. Well, one of the pins had sheared in half! So an hour later, we'd replaced the two pins (which looked to be made only of cold steel) with grade 5 bolts and lock-nuts. After that it worked great again.

So, if you've got a AirFlo and the driveshaft mysteriously stops spinning the drag chains, then look at those pins.

[Prosno]

What do you think of that new airflo stainless? I'm considering getting one but dont know if I want the airflow or the ice o way. Give me your honest opinion. Thanks.

[cat320]

$2,900 for that one at the show only thing is it's only a 9hp brigs no honda.

[cutntrim]

My honest opinion? I've used it one day and had that pin shear in half. Other than that :rolleyes: it worked fine.

It has the B&S engine. No comment so far.

[mikegamb]

prosnow

i have the downeaster SS V box.its electric and holds 1.5 yards.works great well worth the money

[Snowboy]

Too bad we cant Get Down Eantner here in Canada Kooy bro's only sells the gas units. I'm not 100% sold on electric. Salt clumps jam it up and it might not have the power to break it up.

Smith spreaders arent sold in canada either. I dont think i would want to drive to Buffalo or New York to get any one of them puppies..

[AndyN.]

CutnTrim,
What are the chances you had the idle all the way up and slammed on the spinner / feed chain. That would shear the bolts. I did print out your thread though. I am going to my shop tomorrow and having my mechanic beef up that hardware. Thanks for the heads up, as I have the same spreader. So far so good.

[BWhite]

were those pins supposed to act a shear pins ?

[cutntrim]

Andy - I knew not to have the idle turned up when engaging the clutch. Similar to engaging blades on a mower. I had it turned down. The pin just sheared in half...don't know why, other than it wasn't strong enough in the first place.

[cutntrim]

Another new problem with the AirFlo. This time I went to start it up in order to clear out the snow in the hopper and it wouldn't start. Wouldn't turn over at all. Nothin'...dead!

Called the dealer, he suggested changing the 5a fuses which I did...still no go. I jump-started by hooking up to our other truck's battery and it fired up immediately. Once it fired up I couldn't get it to release off of CHOKE from in the cab. I had to go around to the engine and manually move the choke lever. After shutting it down, I tried to get it to start again and nothing happened. Not even able to pull start it from the back.

Strange...I'm taking it to the dealer probably on Thursday since I can't get there any earlier than that. Just illustrates why backup equipment is soooo important.

[urethane dino]

Check the grounds on both your controller and in the engine compartment. We had a spreader on sunday that would not run, the driver had moved the ground in the engine compartment on Friday, and didnt secure it on clean metal.
Dino

[cutntrim]

Hmmm, nobody (meaning me) has fooled with the grounds but I will check them out. Good thing we don't have any active weather predicted for the next few days...just rain.

[wyldman]

It does sound like a ground issue.Check the power and grounds at the spreader with a DVOM,and see what you get.

Do you have a remote spreader battery ? or a battery elimination kit ?

[mikegamb]

thats why i love my electric downeaster.just flip a switch and your off once she kicks down which takes like 3 seconds.haven't had any problems yet and its almost a year old.works fine no problems with clumps or wet sand.

[cutntrim]

It has a 12V battery back there with the Briggs engine. Possibly a bad battery?

[urethane dino]

Where does the control panel pull power from? If it is from the battery in the rear, make sure you have a good ground connection in the cab. If power comes from 12v ignition in the cab, make sure that you have power to the cotrol box.
Dino

[cutntrim]

Update -

Incredible that my non-starting issue would have gone this long, but it's finally been fixed. It turned out to have been a bad battery all along. Should have been discovered immediately but the dealer never checked the battery (he checked everything else) , and I had no way of checking it myself. Too many snow/salt events to get the time to keep running over to his shop (not close by) to get it fixed sooner.

All this time I'd been waiting for a replacement 'on-off' switch for the controller. When it came in the dealer installed it but still couldn't start the spreader. That's when he hooked the battery to his charger and...VOILA! Spreader now works!

So, I ditched the battery it came with and replaced it with a lawn tractor battery. Starts instantly now...FINALLY!

[Mustang]

I was considering the AirFlo stainless unit myself. Saw it around here for $3,100. Seemed very cheap for stainless as compared to others so, never having owned a v box and having little experience in snow services I was suspicious as to the quality and reliability. Anyone know why there is such a big difference between Air Flo stainless and other brands?

[cutntrim]

AirFlo bought a lot of stainless steel from China of all places, and got it real cheap. So, they deep discounted their stainless spreaders for this year.

[cutntrim]

This spreader is seriously pissing me off. Yesterday morning we had a freezing rain warning for our area issued at 4:35a.m. so I went out to pre-salt. Hadn't touched the spreader in over a week so I wasn't particularly surprised when it wouldn't start from in the cab. No problem, I'll pull start it then when it's warmed up it'll run from in the cab. Right? Wrong.

No problem pull starting it, and I let it idle while waiting at the yard for the salt guy to arrive and fill me up. Shut it down when he got there and drove 'round back to meet him by the pile. Something told me I better test fire it just to make sure.

Would not start from in-cab. Dead...nothing. Not even the "click" from the solenoid at the back. Pull started no problem. But...the auger clutch switch was dead. No movement from the chain, total silence. In-cab choke switch worked though, 'cause I choked it before walking back to pull the recoil.

Shut it down and had my other truck hook up jumper cables to the salter battery to see if that would help. Nope. Engine runs but no spinner action.

So I had to do the whole damn route with the tailgate salter in the other truck, and then had to do that again tonite. All my bagged salt is gone now and my $6,000 AirFlo is once again DEAD!

Gonna go to Crappy Tire (Canadians know what I'm talkin' about) and pick up a battery charger and multimeter tomorrow. I'll charge the battery and see what happens...

Very, very angry with this spreader.

:headwall

[urethane dino]

Where does the spreader pull 12v to energize the spreader clutch? Some use 12v from the cab, others need it from the spreader battery. In the past we have run direct 12v down the frame rail from the truck battery, to eliminate the entire aux. battery issue.
Dino

[Pelican]

While the battery may need charging, it doesn't sound as if it's the reason your spinner isn't working. If you were able to start the motor with jumper cables, then that means you've got voltage back there and the spinner should work too if the battery were suspect.

You need to trace out the spinner clutch circuit and find where the problem is. It could be a bad ground or broken wire somewhere. Usually the problem is in the connector plug to the truck harness. My old V box used a 7 pin trailer connector and it was a constant battle to keep all the contacts working..

I also ran a 12 volt source back to my V-box from the truck, the V-box charger crapped out shortly after I began using it. This way the truck kept the V-box batter charged up. Make sure you put a relay in series so the V-box doesn't draw down the truck battery when the truck is shut off.

[cutntrim]

Actually, when I hooked it up to jumpers that day, I still had to pull start it. I didn't get a chance to pick up a charger or multimeter today, but I'm going to go in to the dealer tomorrow. I have a feeling that the spinner clutch switch might have been "on" for the week I didn't use the salter. I've noticed it in the "on" position a couple of times previously. It's a 'rocker-type' switch and seems to click "on" VERY easily...too easily. I wonder if going over train tracks, or a large bump, could have triggered it?

Along that line, I'm wondering if I can replace the existing switches (two rockers and one toggle) with illuminated ones so I can visually see when they are "on" or "off". I see that JC Whitney has those type switches for $3. I'm sure I could get some around here somewhere. Problem is that the spinner switch has the "blast" feature so I don't think a regular rocker switch would work. I need rocker switches that can be pressed "on" without locking in the "on" position. Wonder if those are easy to find, and where around here (Burlington, ON) I might find 'em?

Also saw in JC Whitney catalogue/website a little battery charger that you mount near the battery, then plug into a standard electrical outlet. It "monitors" the battery's charge and automatically charges it if it's draining. I think it also shuts down any draw from the battery if it's draining too low. Think it was called the "Battery Brain" and sold for $40US. That might help eliminate accidental/unavoidable battery drain between uses.

[Pelican]

Radio Shack would probably be a better source for a pulse type switch, or if you are doing mail order, try http://www.waytekwire.com/splash/smprequest.htm.

If your real ambitious, you could put a keyed switch in your controller to shut power off to your switches and avoid further accidental draining of the battery when not in use.

[cutntrim]

Spent 2hrs at the dealer today. After much hunt-and-miss and a phone call to AirFlo, it turned out to be a bad ground. So it's fixed...again...for now. I said I wished I would have went hydraulic or electric to the dealer. He said I should be glad I didn't go hydraulic, too many problems like frozen lines, cracked hoses, etc... He did say electric is a good way to go. Wish I'd have gone that way originally. Oh well, we'll see if it holds up next time I need it. :rolleyes:

[Lawngodfather]

Tip #1 for the day;

Add a ground from the spreader to the truck, 12ga wire is suffiant. This will solve 95% of your problems when it comes to charging and starting.

Tip # 2 decreasing your engine speed to engauge clutch does nothing but slow the process down. The Clutch pack is made to withsatnd full throttle starts. It will not wear it out any faster.

Tip # 3 Durring the off season (not winter) bring you batt. in and hook to a low amp trickle charger and leave set till you need it next (Winter). Set the batt on a peice of wood and not a concrete floor.

Tip # 4 Clean spreader well with warm water, flush under the conveyer chain, lube spreader bearings, put used oil on chains, spray down with diesel fuel.

Tip# 5 spray throttle and choke butterfly's with a tephlon spray to prevent freezing up.

Tip # 6 disconnect pos ( + ) lead to spreader when not in use (for when sitting for a few days)

Tip # 7 Put anti corrosive stuff on batt terminals includes solenoid.

Tip # 8 Apply dielectric grease to all connections after every cleaning and after anytime it sets disconnected.

Only problem I have had is starters locking up from corrosion, some PB Blaster cures that.

[Lawngodfather]

So far it seems the only thing you can blame on Airflo is the sheared pins, the rest is all dealer related. He supplied the batt, and in the instalation manual it clearly states to make a ground from the spreader to the truck.

I installed an airflo for a buddy and his has worked flawless this winter so far.

[cutntrim]

LGF: Thanks for the tips. I'm new to V-Box spreaders so any maintenance tips are appreciated.

I haven't "blamed" anyone so far (AirFlo or dealer) but I've had good reason to be unhappy with the results of my $6,000CDN investment so far. Hopefully I've run out of bad luck with it. The dealer didn't supply the original battery, it was from AirFlo. Dealer also said he received very brief instructions where installation was concerned, and no instruction for wiring it up. Perhaps running a ground from the spreader to the truck is common knowledge (I wouldn't know), but apparently there was no instruction to do so from AirFlo.

With regards to your tips:

#1 They added a ground from spreader-to-truck today.
#2 AirFlo operator manual says to engage the spreader clutch at low idle to avoid the chain slipping off, so that's what I've been doing.
#3 I picked up a charger today and plan to do that this summer.
#4 I spray wash the spreader down as best I can after each use. I'll thoroughly clean it after the winter's over.
#5 I've been spraying the engine area with Krown Rust Control spray.
#6 Haven't done that. I figured I'd check the battery strength with a multimeter if it's been idle for several days, and then hook up to the charger if need be.
#7 I've sprayed Krown on the solenoid but not the terminals.
#8 Applied dielectric when I first got it, but haven't since...probably should.

Anyhow, thanks for the tips. Didn't realize there was so much maintenance required compared to my old Buyers tailgate spreader.

[wyldman]

Originally posted by cutntrim
Spent He said I should be glad I didn't go hydraulic, too many problems like frozen lines, cracked hoses, etc... He did say electric is a good way to go. Wish I'd have gone that way originally. Oh well, we'll see if it holds up next time I need it. :rolleyes:

As long as they are properly maintained,the hydraulic spreaders don't freeze up,and it takes years for the hoses to crack,unless improperly routed,or installed.

[cutntrim]

I'm sure your right, but it doesn't matter now anyway. I've got gas, and that's what I've gotta deal with. Don't know anyone with a hydraulic so I'm not qualified to comment. I assumed he was speaking from experience.

[wyldman]

Originally posted by Lawngodfather
Tip #1 for the day;

Add a ground from the spreader to the truck, 12ga wire is suffiant. This will solve 95% of your problems when it comes to charging and starting.

Tip # 2 decreasing your engine speed to engauge clutch does nothing but slow the process down. The Clutch pack is made to withstand full throttle starts. It will not wear it out any faster.

Tip # 3 Durring the off season (not winter) bring you batt. in and hook to a low amp trickle charger and leave set till you need it next (Winter). Set the batt on a peice of wood and not a concrete floor.

Tip # 4 Clean spreader well with warm water, flush under the conveyer chain, lube spreader bearings, put used oil on chains, spray down with diesel fuel.

Tip# 5 spray throttle and choke butterfly's with a tephlon spray to prevent freezing up.

Tip # 6 disconnect pos ( + ) lead to spreader when not in use (for when sitting for a few days)

Tip # 7 Put anti corrosive stuff on batt terminals includes solenoid.

Tip # 8 Apply dielectric grease to all connections after every cleaning and after anytime it sets disconnected.

Only problem I have had is starters locking up from corrosion, some PB Blaster cures that.

Tip #2 You should always idle down the engine before engaging the clutch.Less wear and tear,and no broken parts.Try engaing it like that if it's jammed,or the chain freezes up.Ouch !

Tip #3 Don't worry about setting a battery on concrete,it's a myth that they will be discharged or damaged.

Tip #4 Don't use diesel fuel or used oil,it not environmentally friendly,use fluid film or something similar.If using a petroleum based product,use something that doesn't drip or run off.

Tip #6 No need to disconnect the spreader battery.There should be no parasitic draw from the unit.

The best thing you can do is get rid of the little spreader battery,and get a battery elimination kit.No more charging\battery problems,and you don't have to worry about the battery in the off season.

[Lawngodfather]

Originally posted by cutntrim
Anyhow, thanks for the tips. Didn't realize there was so much maintenance required compared to my old Buyers tailgate spreader. If you had hydraulic you would have to put grease on the connectors.

If you had electric you would put dielectric on the connectors.

It's all preventive maintenance.

the tailgates have motors and connectors that get corroded.

We be fighting corrosion, even on yur stainless steel, the chains, beaings, idle shaft, drive shaft, spinner shaft, gear box etc.. and top screens are not, and will rust.

[cutntrim]

Yeah, salt is rough on equipment. I know there's preventative maintenance involved (same as my lawn equip) but there is a lot more with the V-box than the tailgate, that's all.

What exactly is a "battery elimination kit"? I ditched the original battery and replaced it with a better quality lawn tractor battery from Acme Battery in Hamilton.

[cat320]

Well you could just eliminate the rear battery and run off the truck I know that i have seen kits from some for this .

[Pelican]

You can eliminate the battery by running an 8 gauge wire back to the same location as your battery leads hook up to. If you are grounded to the truck already with a heavy gauge wire, you'll need only to run a positive lead. You can get a heavy duty coupler to make the connection if you remove the V-box often, but be aware that this is another location corrosion can occur. The Town I sub to runs a hard line direct to the truck battery to avoid this as the boxes are mounted all season.

[V65Sabre]

We had a similiar problem with the clutch switch getting turned on. One of the guys that is "vertically challenged" jumps in the truck, pulls the seat forward( just far enough to push the switch ahead,the control is mounted on the floor) nobody notices the switch , week later the truck rolls over very slow to start. The clutch and the throttle use the 12 v from the vehicle.
Problem solved when

-repositioned the control so that the seat,when max. forward, does not interfere
-added an illuminated switch between the truck power and the control unit. When the switch is off no power to the control, no accidental draw.

That was in December and the unit has worked great since. We actually drove to the factory (upstate NewYork) since it was only a couple of hrs from us and installed ourselves. Had the stainless unit in the yard for less than we could have bought a regular steel unit locally

[wyldman]

The batt elimination kit is a pair of long cables,with an Anderson quick disconnect.It is usually 4 gauge or so.I would always make sure you run both power and ground back to the spreader,to avoid grounding problems.

The spreader controls should be wired off the ign circuit,to avoid any parasitic draw when the truck is turned off.

[cutntrim]

Where do you get one of these kits? NAPA?

[wyldman]

Most plow dealers should have them.I know Kooy Bros and Walker have them.

You can make your own with some bulk cable and the Anderson connector.Napa should carry the Anderson connectors.Try a welding supply shop for good cable.