Salt on a single freeze night?

[1BadHawk]

Just wondering, and trying to gather a little more info on when to salt. I realise a lot of people just salt whenever they feel its necessary, which is cool. But would you consider a single night where say previous day temps are in the upper 30's low 40's, and the night gets in the 20's, with some light precip a salt night and next day temps get in the 40's again?

I know alot people live in climates where generaly once it gets below freezing it stays their for the majority of the winter. But here in maryland, with this being a mild winter, I expect we will have a periods where it will drop below freezing at night but warm up a bit the next day. Would you consider salting on nights like that?

[Bonzai]

Our rule here is if it is white we salt it, no matter what the temps are going to be later in the day.

[1BadHawk]

easy enough rule to follow. But what if theirs not snow yet? Just a few scattered days here and there with sub freezing temps.

[parrothead]

what are you in business for? just to salt? you need to ask yourself a question, could somebody slip and fall? then i would say yes, you need to salt. if you have a slippery condition in the morning and people will be there, then salt. if you have a slippery condition, but nobody will be there till after it warms up, then i would not salt.

[Lawn Lad]

Well, I'll try retyping my reply since it was lost when I tried posting a picture. Frustrating.

If your customers expect that you'll be applying under these conditions than you've answered your own question. If you don't know whether you should or shouldn't then you have not adequately defined your scope of services. You learn as you go and as new weather conditions present themselves you'll better understand when you should or shouldn't... based on how you've defined your scope of services.

Under the conditions you describe I would apply for customers that expect a higher level of service. Businesses that are open early enough (office buildings, etc.) where people are in the lots before the temps will be coming up are at risk for slipping. If the temps won't be over 32 until after 9 or 10 am, you've got three to four hours of exposure, therefore I would treat. If the business doesn't open until 10 am or later (e.g. restaurant) than maybe you can withhold the application.

Since I can't attach the picture again that I posted in another thread... (http://www.snowplowing-contractors.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2970) you can view it here. The picture is of a situation where we ask customers if they would want an ice control application. If the customer said yes to this photo then under the conditions you describe it is a definite yes. We find that customers that say yes to these types of scenarios will be salted approximately 2 times for every time we plow. Customers who say no to this and other light icing situations might only be salted 1.2 to 1.4 times to each plowing. The difference being that we can help the customer to create a budget based on the service they want. Total annual cost is based on frequency of service/applications. We avoid surprises at the end of the month/season by estimating this upfront for the customer - and they can then expect that under these conditions we will be salting.

http://www.snowplowing-contractors.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2970

[chipsearthworks]

look at it this way better to have your customers mad at you for salting, then have them mad at you for breaking a body part when they fall and getting a phone call with them saying "why did you salt when it was going to melt tommarow" then "Hi his is the law office of so and so" woundnt ya think?

[Mustang]

Wouldn't this depend upon your contract with customer? From reading a lot of posts here it seems like a lot of guys salt quite often at their discretion. If this is the case, do you get paid per app or do you have a seasonal all is included agreement? If the customer pays per app (as ours do), then the amount of apps per storm that seem to be the norm here could get quite expensive. My thought is, if there is any doubt, call the customer and let them make the call. Relieves you of any anger by the customer should there be a problem; they made the call.

[1BadHawk]

I agree, its easy to accept that seasonal concracts the decision would be left up to the contractor. But as in my case, my customers pay as they go. I have them sign an agreement, but that only outlines the basics, and gives them an estimate.

I guess in this case it would be best left up to the customer. I suppose calling them wouldnt hurt, but I wouldnt want them to think their being pestered either.

[wyldman]

Originally posted by Mustang
Wouldn't this depend upon your contract with customer? From reading a lot of posts here it seems like a lot of guys salt quite often at their discretion. If this is the case, do you get paid per app or do you have a seasonal all is included agreement? If the customer pays per app (as ours do), then the amount of apps per storm that seem to be the norm here could get quite expensive. My thought is, if there is any doubt, call the customer and let them make the call. Relieves you of any anger by the customer should there be a problem; they made the call.

Seasonal contracts are a set price for snow,only removal or extreme snowfall is additional.

Salt is billed "per ton applied",and billed monthly.I salt when needed at my discretion,and bill them monthly.The best thing we ever did to end the problems with salt apps,is to fax out all the info the next AM,which gives them weather conditions,site conditions,amount of salt applied,and the results.This way if they have a problem,they can call the office while it fresh in their,and our minds.None of this "call a month later when they get the invoice and expect everyone to remember" crap.

[cutntrim]

My preference is to set up contracts similar to what Chris does. Flat rate for plowing, per hour rate for relocation of snow piles, per application rate for salting. However, since I'm a landscape maintenance contractor as well, a number of my customers are on flat fee contracts for 12 months with everything included.

I estimate how many times we'll have to plow and how many times we'll have to salt. With those types of contracts I "lose" money each time we have to go out, but I still err on the side of caution and will go ahead and salt if there's any doubt as to whether or not it's required.

As to your situation, if in doubt, I would apply the salt. Those who complain that you did so may not be the type customer you want anyway.