WARNING: amber beacons!

[Roger Dodger]

Taking from Fred's thread of warnings, how about us remembering to turn off those beacons when the job is done and we're out on the road, off to the next job! Been seeing plenty of flashing yellow and these aren't DOT trucks nor tow trucks I'm seeing! It's easy to forget as even the CATV and phone truck operators sometimes leave their's on by mistake.

[CT18fireman]

We as most around here do keep them on all the time. From start to finish of the route.

[BRL]

Yea we keep them on all the time. We are mostly plowing the lots when they are empty and generally we don't need them for ourselves as we know what we are up to like well oiled machines at this point. But we leave them on for going down the road to heopefully keep us safer while moving amongst the moron regular drivers out on the roads. So I respectfully disagree with the idea of turning them off between jobs. (its illegal to even have them here, so I know we are breaking the law either way, but I will take the fine for the hopefully added safety factor).

[Tileman]

We run them all the time. We want to be sean out on the road as well as on the lots.

Lights on for safety.


Rich

[mdb landscaping]

ya, why do you care if they are left on. i for one leave them on from the time i leave the shop, till the time i get back. people definately notice you, and especially when its dark out people know to give you some extra room. i have a 9 foot blade on my 350 and i drive our f800 dump with a 10 foot blade on the dumptruck, and it takes up a good lane. i think its good to leave the beacons on. ive almost hit a few guys plowing across roads at night in a snowstorm who didnt have beacons on.

[wyldman]

We leave them on too.The cops always try and hassle you,but the heck with them.Lights on for safety.

[Bugthug]

I disagree with the whole lights on all the time B/S. Too many times I have been at a crash with the fire department doing traffic control and a car flies bye almost killing people. The other day I got a guy stopped and he said I thought you were just a plow truck. I know our own safty is the most important thing, but come on. Flashing lights are for a warning. If people see some guy driving down the road with their lights blinking away they say hmm disregard that kind of thing.

[tlc]

When we are out plowing or salting we are moving advertisements for our company. The more we can attract pleople to ourselves the better.

:p

[sonjaab]

BRL..........

AMEN to your post !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............geo:D

[tlc]

I always tell my employees what a customer sees (along with quailty work) is thier first impression.
I have all newer equipment, all or trucks are cleaned after each event and all trucks have LED beacon lights. Image is the most important thing.
We have 8 plow trucks and 4 salt trucks and 1 loader.

[CamLand]

Originally posted by BRL
Yea we keep them on all the time. We are mostly plowing the lots when they are empty and generally we don't need them for ourselves as we know what we are up to like well oiled machines at this point. But we leave them on for going down the road to heopefully keep us safer while moving amongst the moron regular drivers out on the roads. So I respectfully disagree with the idea of turning them off between jobs. (its illegal to even have them here, so I know we are breaking the law either way, but I will take the fine for the hopefully added safety factor).

Brother you sure got this statement perfect....plowing! plowing! plowing!

[tlc]

I don't know if I think differently from others or what?

It is cheaper to operate a new truck than a 15 year old POS. You look better and feel better and will have less break downs. If you are down you are not only loosing money, you are going to loose accounts and put a strain on the other trucks in you fleet. All our employees have uniforms (Summer and Winter). All 13 trucks in our fleet are white and red and have the same logo.
Due the professionalism and quality we can charge more than others and we are growing rapidly.

There is so much more to it than plowing and salting!

[sonjaab]

BTW: A amber warning light is required when plowing, on tow trucks, overwidth/length or other emergency vehicles, etc..... doing service work by law here in NY............

Funny ....In NJ they are illegal huh?..................:confused:

[landman]

They are not illegal here in NJ, IF you apply to NJ Dept of public law and safety and of courese pay a fee to the man and obtain an "amber light permit". There are restrictions to using the lights though, too detailed to get into now.

[digger242j]

I gotta side with Roger.

The purpose of the amber beacons is to alert others of a hazard.

When plowing, the hazard might be flying snow, or the truck moving about in a manner that other motorists would not nomally expect. Certainly when the operator's attention is concentrated on the process of snowplowing there's good reason for other drivers to be aware, so that they might give way to the plowtruck, but I'm certain there's no legal reason for them to do so. Once you're done plowing, you should present no greater hazard than any other vehicle.

If you're a hazard you shouldn't be on the road.

But we leave them on for going down the road to heopefully keep us safer while moving amongst the moron regular drivers out on the roads.

Maybe everybody else should be required to have them but us? :)

[GreenDuramax04]

My dealer told me that they are required by law in Maryland for plow trucks. Then again he might have been just trying to sell me a light.

Jesse

[cat320]

I leave my lights on from start to finish well I did when they where on my old truck still have to install on the new truck.

It is a safty thing there are more dumbass on the road when it snows than when the weather is good. As far as the cops they should not be bothering anyone unless they see some one pulling some one over with a red or blue light.Amber,clear,green or purple should be fine colors in any combo for plowing.

[dplummer]

We are required to have a blue flashing light plowing and/or sanding. Doug

[Pelican]

Mine stay on from the moment I get in the truck until I park it after I'm finished. My route is pretty tight, many times I'm moving from one driveway to the next. I'm thinking about too many other things without having to worry about reaching for the switch every few minutes. I think it adds an element of safety to my operation even when I'm not plowing.

My 550 has its warning lights going from the time it leaves the Highway Garage until it returns. We turn them off in the yard to lessen the glare to each other and for the loader operator. As we pass through the gate to leave, they go back on.

[Adams Plowing]

I have to say i somewhat agree with both sides on this one When Its snowing like crazy and theres very low visibility i have a tendency to leave the light on while driving on the road or if im just jumping across the street to a different property. But if its just a light snow or cleanup night when theres good visibility on the road i shut it off for driving hell sometimes i dont bother to turn it on in the lots if there empty and visibility is good. The reason i think you should shut them off on the road when just driving is because sometimes the lights can be more of a distraction that a warning. If you notice most of our trucks put out a heck of a lot more light than the usual state truck. theres a reason they dont have massive lightbars and obnocious amounts of strobes on those trucks thats to not cause a distraction. but yet they have enough to serve as warning device.

[paponte]

Once you're done plowing, you should present no greater hazard than any other vehicle.

I think with 9' of steel protruding past the front and sides of my truck, I would be more of a hazard than other vehicles on the road. Also my sander sticks out of the back of the truck a good 2 feet. Also, most plow trucks move slower and make more frequent stops and can back at anytime.

I would have to agree with most. Lights stay on till were back at the shop. I see my guys out without their lights on, and I will yell at them on the radio to turn it back on. Have never even been hassled about having them on the trucks. Leaving them on has my vote, hands down.

:)

[BRL]

"They are not illegal here in NJ, IF you apply to NJ Dept of public law and safety and of courese pay a fee to the man and obtain an "amber light permit". There are restrictions to using the lights though, too detailed to get into now."

You have to have a contract with the state or a municipality to be doing a state highway or municipality contract that entails doing work on a public road. I have no such contracts, therefore they won't let me pay the fee to legally use them. :rolleyes:

"I disagree with the whole lights on all the time B/S. Too many times I have been at a crash with the fire department doing traffic control and a car flies bye almost killing people. The other day I got a guy stopped and he said I thought you were just a plow truck."

Bugthug,
I understand what you are saying there, but I will counter that those individuals that you are speaking of are idiots, and they are not the norm (at least from my observations). The fact that snowplow trucks have a warning beacon going while going down the road does not cause that particular guys stupidity that you mentioned IMO.

"Once you're done plowing, you should present no greater hazard than any other vehicle. "

As mentioned, a big hunk of steel hanging of the front & the back of the trucks makes them more hazardous than when driving in the snow without the equipment. Most of us are weighed down close to max GVW, so we will take longer to stop etc. I don't know about your area, but even with the plow up & driving down the roads, there will be plenty of "the hazard might be flying snow" going on. I have seen plenty of it get flung up by my plow, & I've seen plenty of it getting shot at me from other plows gooing by me that weren't actively plowing. Now let's get to night time, we can probably (well OK certainly) drive down the road & based on lights we see up ahead realize that is a fellow plower coming down the road, but the average person may not realize why they look different. So the lights help them realize something is wrong with this vehicle they are near & hopefully they will allow a little extra space, or not cut a turn too close, etc. So while we do the best we can to not be a hazard while traveling down the road, it is a given that this equipment makes our trucks more of a hazard, no matter what we do to try & not be one.


Disclaimer :) : I live in NJ. For the past few years we wrestled from RI the coveted "state with the most people per square mile" title. It is really crowded on our roads & quite dangerous. It doesn't snow a lot here, so most of the drivers are REALLY REALLY bad at driving in it (ask anyone living in a ski resort area which license plates are causing all the problems on their roads in their fair state ;) ). These factors may have affected my posts on this subject & I make no apologies for them)

[Snow Encrusted]

Where can I flasher setup installed in N.Y, Long Island

[derekbroerse]

My lights are on for the job and off for the road.

The V-plow tucks nice and close to the sides of the truck, if anyone is going to hit the plow they were going to hit the truck anyways, so it is no more of a hazard than any other vehicle on the road.

V-box salters that stick out pas the rear of the truck are supposed to have additional clearance and taillights on them anyways... just like a trailer etc. or like putting a red flag on a load that is longer than the truck. Again, if the proper lights are on the sander, (even two whole feet) they were likely going to rearend the truck anyways.

Reflective tape is a very good alternative for those who think their lights are inadequate.... especially good for the rear of V-boxes, trailers, bumpers, etc.

Lights left on full time just make people calloused to them and they tend to ignore them. Ask any volunteer firefighter who needs to get to the station and uses the green light---ask them how many people even notice them?

[Roger Dodger]

Respectfully, I seem to disagree withthe majority here. I'm truly surprised at the amount of responses stating to leave them on for whatever reasons. I personally feel digger242 summed it up appropriately. I feel it's gotten to the point that during plowing season, I see so many amber lights on the road itself that I tend to ignore or become selective in which ones to notice. That in itself is perhaps hazardous on my part, but I tire quickly from being fooled into thinking there's a real situation up ahead that requires extra attention and caution only to discover that it's a standard pickup with a plow on it traveling "somewhere". I can accept leaving the light(s) on if the plow operator is jumping here and there within a short span of road (and of course in parking lots). But not when I know firsthand the driver has been travelling with me for 1-2 miles or more.

I think that those of us who leave them on are creating a scenario where we are crying wolf and sooner or later, other motorists will not heed the caution message that amber is intended for. If emergency vehicles applied the same mentality, we'd ignore them too, more often than none.

I dunno guys, I don't want some motorists to view us as a bunch of truck-drivin', cowboy yahoos out here! Don't take offense from that, but as a specialized group of motorists, we do portray an image to others.

[SNO]

Roger Dodger,
Most of us are not out yahoooing....

We are working.

Just as the city, township and state trucks and sometimes more.

I think we would be fools if we didnt use what is neccessary for safety.

Again, I'm not out getting my families driveways. I'm out battling a snow storm for several hours and sometimes days.

I turn them off when not needed, and on when they are needed.

It all has to do with visibility and they are always on when plowing the lots/drives.

[ULM2004]

Im surprised too. I leave my lights on for the job and turn them off when on the road. Anyways if the roads are filled with snow then most people will be going slower and be a little more cautious. Anyways its illegal to drive on the road with the lights on when not plowing. You would get a hefty fine for that one. I have a ton of lights on both of my trucks and Only use them when plowing. Even like derekbroerse said, Reflective tape works really well!

[SNO]

I sure dont want to beat this up.

But.

When the suns shining and it's clear my lights are off.
I have no desire to draw attention.

However,

If the wind is blowing snow, or it's comming down hard and customers cant get in or out.

Elderly folk are left trapped and in some cases "plowed in" with no access for ambulance or what ever and it's just plain nasty out there.. (I have been in this situation more than once, I know who cares and who doesnt and who has time for what.)

I truely pitty the officer who pulls me over for the light running.

Or anybody else for that matter.

[SNO]

I consider my job and safety just as important as they.

I just work and get paid from the other end.

[wyldman]

If the conditions are good when travelling from site to site,I may turn them off,but usually on the first run your driving in the middle of a storm.Visability is poor,so I leave them on.I will turn off all the strobes and stuff,just leave the roof beacon on.

[SNO]

Tonight: Periods of snow with widespread blowing snow. Low around 16. Wind chill values between zero and 10. North wind between 8 and 18 mph, with gusts as high as 28 mph. Chance of precipitation is 90%. New snow accumulation of 4 to 8 inches possible.


Going to be a long night......

I'll probably run my amber light all night.

:)


My Amber doesnt say "I'm an official state plow truck"
It doesnt say " Im an official tow truck"

It simply says...
"PLEASE DONT HIT ME!"

It's too cold out to be in a ditch and I have people depending on me.

LOL

I'm not sure how you can wear that out. You either see me or you dont.

;)

[Caneplow]

In Connecticut you could use them on private property all you want but if you run them on the road for any reason you need a permit (a way for the state to get another $20 from ya) plus it must be signed by the Police or Fire department.


Obtaining a Flashing Amber Light Permit


A permit for a flashing amber light may be issued for approved maintenance, escort, or security vehicles which are operated on Connecticut roads and which require a flashing light as a cautionary mechanism to warn motorists. An approved escort vehicle escorts a vehicle which operations with a DOT permit. The Application for a Flashing Light Permit (form E-215) must be authorized by the local chief of police where the flashing amber light will be used. A permit for a siren will not be issued with a permit for a flashing amber light.

The use of a flashing amber light does not exempt the operator from state traffic regulations, or from the traffic regulations of any town, city, or borough.

A permit for a flashing amber light is not required if the flashing amber light will be displayed and used only on private property.

[Wizard]

Seems like most guys here are either for or against. Whenever I see someone driving around with their flashy lights on, driving down the road, I usually think what an idiot they are for forgetting to turn their light off. I didn't know anyone would actually intentionally leave them on, and it frankly blows me away that guys actually think like that. To them I say, just who do you think you are anyway? So, should every semi truck driving in a snowstorm equip themselves with flashy lights just so people see them? They're a whole lot bigger, and just as wide as any of us! How about fire trucks? Their rigs are also a lot bigger and just as wide as a plow truck. You don't see anyone else running lights, just so poeple see them. When I read the posts above, I think one thing... Guys that leave their lights on must be thinking, "Huh, look at me, I'm important, I'm special, I'm a professional..." I sure wouldn't want to be the guy responsible for someone crashing on the highway because they were distracted by my lights. I would feel really bad.

Sorry guys, I can't understand your logic, other than that it must be the power trip thing. You're just begging for attention if you drive with your flashy lights on. If you need to leave your blinky lights on so that a potential customer notices you and catches the name on the truck, you need some new advertising help. Now, if you're working, about to drop the blade, stopped on the side of the road, sanding, backing out in the street, etc, then by all means, leave them on. I've been plowing for 24 years, and we have 20 trucks on the road during a storm. If I ever caught one of my guys driving down the road with their lights on, I'd have a fit. The risks of causing a distraction are much greater than the safety factor. If they can't see your headlights and taillights, they shouldn't be driving anyway.

[digger242j]

Ok, suppose your friendly local legislator sponsors a bill to require more stringent regulation of plow trucks. Suppose it's proposed that the operators are required to pass a specific exam, and that permits (read $ out of your pocket), are required in order to take such a vehicle on the road.

What? How in the world can that be justified!?!? :eek:

Well, lets see...even among those in the snowplowing profession there is a body of opinion that holds that plowtrucks, even when moving over the highway between plowing locations, present a hazard:

"i have a 9 foot blade on my 350 and i drive our f800 dump with a 10 foot blade on the dumptruck, and it takes up a good lane. "

"I think with 9' of steel protruding past the front and sides of my truck, I would be more of a hazard than other vehicles on the road. Also my sander sticks out of the back of the truck a good 2 feet. Also, most plow trucks move slower and make more frequent stops and can back at anytime. "

"As mentioned, a big hunk of steel hanging of the front & the back of the trucks makes them more hazardous than when driving in the snow without the equipment. Most of us are weighed down close to max GVW, so we will take longer to stop etc. I don't know about your area, but even with the plow up & driving down the roads, there will be plenty of "the hazard might be flying snow" going on. I have seen plenty of it get flung up by my plow, & I've seen plenty of it getting shot at me from other plows gooing by me that weren't actively plowing. "


Hey, nobody thought the Massachusetts law about having to take the headgear off was unreasonable, did they?
:rolleyes:

[Wizard]

Part of my opinions may be formed from experience as well. I have received multiple warnings and a ticket for lights. About 3 years ago I witnessed a crazy accident on a local freeway. I stopped to help and turned my lights on "for safety". Very shortly after this, a cop showed up and told me to turn the lights off immediately. Not completely understanding his problem, I appologized and told him that I had them on for the safety considerations. He then demanded my drivers license and proceded to write me a ticket. That one cost $300 and a trip to the courthouse, all for trying to be a good citizen. Thing is, police officers, firefighters, and EMS personnel receive multiple years of training and experience before ever taking control of a vehicle with emergency lighting. There's a reason for this, because lights can and are used improperly. Hence it being very much illegal to equip a non-emergency vehicle with emergency lighting, even if those lights are amber. Emergency lights are for emergency vehicles, not for every Tom, ****, and Harry plowing snow.

Digger, I understand what you're saying about plow vehicles presenting a hazard. Who's responsibility is that hazard? The operators, not that poor little old lady driving to the grocery store. Why in the world would you take the stance that "I'm bigger, I'm wider, I'm a hazard, watch out for me!" Wrong attitude, you need to be accountable for your equipment. You can't expect them to watch out for you. A 9' plow is 8' at full angle. A semi truck is 8.5' wide, not including the mirrors. It is the semi drivers responsibility to maintain control of his vehicle, not everyone else's responsibility to watch out for him. Semi drivers don't jump in their big rigs with no training, nor would you ever put a guys who's never plowed before in your 550 with a 9' plow. Also, highway lanes are 10' wide minimum, some interstates are wider. If you can't keep 8' worth of truck in a 10' lane, you need more than a flashy light, you need a driving lesson. If you're on a tight road, don't drive next to someone, if you're not going to fit. Again, it's your responsibilty to drive that plow truck safely, not the other driver's.

It's no secret that emergency lighting is distracting. That's the point, to get other peoples attention. People are already trying to concentrate on getting from point A to point B safely in a snowstorm. Why would you intentionally take their attention off their driving so they notice you with your flashy light.

Perhaps your area is a lot more relaxed than my area. Very seldom do you ever see anyone driving around with their flashy lights on. If I do, and I point it out to them, they say Oops, and turn it off, realizing that they forgot to turn it off. Perhaps in my area, the snow plowers have enough sense to know that they're not any more important than anyone else on the road. They also know that if they choose to run around with a big plow, it's their responsibility to drive safely with that plow. It's not everyone else's responsibility to watch out for them, just because they're in a hurry to get to the next account. Lastly, using any emergency lighting on a public street is very much illegal here in Minnesota. Most cops are very strict with the law that emergency lighting is for emergency vehicles, and many of us have learned the hard way.

Hey, I love lights! I have over $1500 worth of lights on my truck. Those lights are used when plowing, not driving. I know how important I am to my customers. I don't need to drive around on a power trip trying to get everyone on the road to think "hey, he's a professional snow plower, look at those pretty lights, oh dang, I just rear-ended someone cuz I was looking at the pretty lights..." Again, I'm having a hard time understanding the logic of driving around, distracting everyone else on the road with lights, and thinking that it's acceptable.

[SNO]

I'm having a hard time with the logic of not.

But then If I had 1500.00 worth of lights... I may be a bit leary of lighting the whole county like a Xmas tree myself.

At what point should we all run our OEM Hazard blinkers?

[Wizard]

I'm not refering to running down the road like some nut with thousands of $$$'s worth of lights on. I stated the amount of lights I have to make a point that it's not the lights I'm against, its the use of them that doesn't make any sense to me.

If visibility is so bad that you can't see the guy in front of you, you shouldn't be driving at all. All of my contracts state that if blizard conditions exist, we will extend the deadlines. If the visibility is so bad that you sincerely believe the only way to drive is to run your emergency lights on the road, why are you taking your life into your hands anyway. So they can see you... doesn't help much if you cant see them...

Any cops on this forum that actually think it's a good idea to run down the highway distracting other drivers?

Not trying to argue, just trying to toss my $.02 in. Perhaps I've tossed a bit more than $.02... My bad...

[SNO]

Whenever I see someone driving around with their flashy lights on, driving down the road, I usually think what an idiot they are for forgetting to turn their light off. I didn't know anyone would actually intentionally leave them on, and it frankly blows me away that guys actually think like that. To them I say, just who do you think you are anyway?

Hey, I love lights! I have over $1500 worth of lights on my truck.

You're just begging for attention if you drive with your flashy lights on.

I know what you stated.

Just need another penny to make an even knickle.

[SNO]

Overnight: Periods of snow with widespread blowing snow. Low near 15. Wind chill values between -3 and 4. North wind between 15 and 21 mph. Chance of precipitation is 90%. New snow accumulation of 3 to 5 inches possible


wizardsr,
It's 10:30 PM now, no snow as yet.

expecting 3-5 dumped in a 4 hour time span with high winds and low temps and another several inches in morning so I dont think it will let up. You have done this for 24 years so you know what the above is like.

I have 2 factories and two elderly ladies who have to be plowed clear and salted by 5:00 - 6:00 AM or i loose the accounts.

Chances are pretty good, visibility will be low at best.

You really run this route with no yellow lights blinking?

Yes? You run with no lights?

That is fine, do what you want. But your really going to tick me off if you tell me I have to or I'm an idiot.

[Wizard]

I run no blinky lights when I'm driving down the road. I run lights whenever I'm working, about to drop the blade at an extrance, backing out into the street, plowing anywhere, or sanding. I think it's important to be seen, don't get me wrong. I just don't agree with running down the highway with emergency lights on.

I plow several townhome and condominium properties with blind corners around garage units. There's nothing better than having my rotators and strobes reflecting off the buildings, getting peoples attention before we meet on a blind corner. It's extremely important to be seen, I understand this, or I wouldn't have dumped so much money into trying to be seen.

Sno, I'm not calling anyone an idiot, or telling anyone they're a dummy for doing anything. Please don't take anything I've said as attacking you. I'm expressing my feelings and opinions on the subject, not trying to start a war. If you feel it's best to drive with flashing lights on the highway, go for it. I'm not trying to force my opinions on you.

What I'm trying to help everyone see is that there is another side to this. 15 years ago, I didn't understand how these actions affected other drivers, and was completely naive to this. Just keep in mind that using flashy lights on the road is very distracting to other drivers. I've found myself getting distracted by someone with flashing lights, as most people do. It's a subconscious thing, if there's something flashing over there, most people turn to look and see what it is without even thinking about it. If every plower had blinky lights on, that would be a lot of distraction, when drivers should be focusing on their driving. Police in my area understand this, and strictly enforce these laws as I explained in an earlier post.

This thread was started by a gentleman who was just trying to look out for the rest of us. He was simply trying to remind us to turn them off mainly because, in most cases, having them turned on while driving down the road is illegal. I respect and support his intentions. Some guys don't care that it's illegal, and what they do is up to them.

I respect the input and opinions of others here on this forum. I joined this forum because I'm an opinionated SOB and have a lot of knowledge and experience in the plowing business. I will also be the first to admit that I don't know everything, and I don't pretend to know everything. I have learned tons from this forum, and hope to learn a lot more from it. I also hope to be able to help other guys out as I can.

Please, please, please everyone. Please don't think that I'm attacking anyone. I'm not trying to tick people off, just provide some input. I have a strong personality and often times come across too strong. For this I appologize. I did not intend to offend anyone.

[Pelican]

I'd have never guessed that this thread would bring such heated remarks.

Let me warn a few that you are approaching being reprimanded with such opinionated posts. You can express an opinion here as most have done without belittling those who disagree.

In my area there is no legislation regarding the use of amber warning lights, so what I choose to do with them is up to me, this is America yet.

For the record, I run 1 strobe beacon on each of two posts of the headache rack of my truck. They flash alternately and I feel attract enough attention without being distracting. I'm not big on plow trucks with mega light bars for plowing, I think they're too distracting on or off the road, but to each his own. I'm certainly not going to label someone here for the way they outfit their truck!

[Roger Dodger]

Hey SNO, no need to enlighten me about plowers working for a living and not being yahoos. If you understand my post correctly, I'm referring to other motorists perceiving some of us as just that. Just as the many motorists who misperceive some bikers and truckers, etc. and may end up lumping the vast majority of them into a stereotype (another part of human nature I guess). And yes it is d@mn true that there are some @$$hole plowers out there that are agressive amongst traffic... my former neighbor is one of them... agressive from the moment he leaves his driveway to the time he returns home!

I believe the key here is if DOT regulations allow for or prohibit travelling on public roads with the beacon light on.


Like digger242j said, as for plow trucks being labeled as a hazardous vehicle, perhaps we shall see the day when I have to use a beacon light while towing my RV. Afterall, it's long, 8' wide, over 10' tall, may sway within a lane, and most definitely hinders the forward view for drivers following me. Perhaps 2 beacon lights then... one for each vehicle!;)

[SNO]

I have a strong personality and often times come across too strong.

Nahhh...

I enjoy a good debate now and again.

:D

Just so Im not misunderstood.

I only run my single amber on the road when a prudent person would maybe run his OEM flashers on any other vehicle.

Very low visibility.

Unless I forget to turn it off.

I have no desire to flash it through town in the middle of a sunny day to show off.

[Pelican]

Here's some food for thought:

In NY, new school buses are being equipped with white roof mounted strobes that flash the entire time the bus is running. Something about attracting a motorists attention to the vehicle. I'm not sure why, but I guess a huge bright yellow vehicle going down the road or stopped with red lights flashing is difficult to see. Apparently the DOT feels that it is better to attract attention to a vehicle you don't want hit than not to.

[drobson]

Wizardsr, if I were you I would have fought that ticket to the end. If your vehicle was not moving, you were not in violation. Heck, there are many regular motorists who carry amber revolving lights in their trunk so they can run them if they are broken down, so that other drivers will see them in the dark sitting on the side of the road. In MA, you can buy them at a hardware store.

I see both sides of this debate, and I suppose it will vary by state regulations on amber lights. I too will run my light on the road if the conditions seem to restrict visibility. Anytime another vehicle can see you from a greater distance, it increases safety.

I worked in EMS for many many years, and there is zero training for the use of lights, with the exception of another employee explaining how to do it when you are new. In school they will go over traffic regulations, but that is about it.

The fire departments have regulations that state that all lights must be on if the vehicle is in motion, and when the vehicle is at rest on a scene. This includes the ride back to the station after the call. This again is for visibility and added safety.

The garbage trucks around here also have amber strobes on all the trucks, they keep them on all the time.

[Wizard]

drobson, in my situation, the cop was obviously having a bad day, and my "questioning his demands" set him off. After getting the ticket, I went to court intending to fight it. They gave me the statute numbers, and I went home to study it. I have a cousin who has a law degree who also helped me figure out the statutes. Basically, Minnesota law states that strobes are illegal on any civilian vehicle. There are exceptions in the statutes for mail carriers, garbage trucks, and school buses. There are also exceptions for a single double-flash strobe or single or dual rotator to be used, but only when the vehicle isn't moving. In this case, I was running hide-aways, and there was nothing to fight, there was no way out of it. Had I continued to try to fight it, it would have only costed me more time and trouble than it was worth. Now, I dont use the hide-aways, even when backing out in the street. I have LED's on the rear corners now, and those give good light to the sides, so I use those for backing into streets. When I'm stopped on the road sides, I use rear facing simultaneous flashing LED's (alternating is illegal) and my dual rotator. I've lived in Minnesota all my life, so I never thought twice about how strict the laws were. I may not agree with them, but I have to live with them. The chances of this happening again are good on a highway like where this occured, as the main highways are patroled by the State Troopers or County Sheriff. Both the Hennepin County Sheriff deputy's and state troopers are real jerks around the big city. Any time you have contact with a County Sheriff or State Trooper around here, it's never a good experience, they treat everyone like criminals. Not that I can blame them, they deal with a lot of crap around here... In some of the suburbs I serve, the local cops are a lot more relaxed, so I could get away with more if I wanted to.

The other note I want to make, is that if I were in a more rural area, I could probably get away with leaving lights on while driving, but it would still be illegal. One thing I didn't consider in my previous posts, is that some guys may be more rurally situated, in which case it may be more appropriate to run lights on the roads. Where I'm located in a heavily populated area, it would be extremely out of place, and extremely distracting to many people to drive with flashing lights on.

[SNO]

Yea, I'm pretty rural.

But after reading your last post, I think I found your problem with the police.

They are jelouse...
;)


LOL

Quite a set up you have!

I'm Jelouse too....

On the same note, I looked at buying the Strobes that go in the OEM lights. (I take it thats what you call hideaways?)

I was told they where illeagle for me to install and run under any circumstance, even plowing lots. Just too bright and distractive I guess.

I dont know for sure about that, but the price was enough for me to not to argue or even persue.

[Wizard]

Yeah, hideaways install in the factory lights. They're pretty cheap if you buy them off of ebay or an internet company. They're a pain to install, but I really like them. They are illegal to run on public roadways, but perfectly legal to have on private property (at least here in MN). I've heard of guys being harassed with them on within 100' of a roadway, but I haven't been able to find a statute that says it's illegal on private property.

Alot of the cops around here are power hungry, and running strobes is evidently something they take offense to. Maybe they feel we're threatening their authority or something, who knows... Perhaps they're just jealous like you said, but most squads around here are decked out in more strobes and LED's than you can shake a stick at. Gotta use that budget somewhere I guess...

[digger242j]

Digger, I understand what you're saying about plow vehicles presenting a hazard.

I'm not sure you do. My point was, that like others have said 18 wheelers an RVs are much larger than our trucks, and thet don't feel it necessary to run flashing lights. I was trying tp point out that if you act like you're dangerous, somebody in a position of authority might well agree. I don't see the positive aspect of that.

In NY, new school buses are being equipped with white roof mounted strobes that flash the entire time the bus is running. Something about attracting a motorists attention to the vehicle. I'm not sure why, but I guess a huge bright yellow vehicle going down the road or stopped with red lights flashing is difficult to see. Apparently the DOT feels that it is better to attract attention to a vehicle you don't want hit than not to.

They use them here in PA too. I'd be more inclined to think that, since white strobes are peculiar to school vehicles, the intention is to alert other motorists to specifically that--that they're approaching a busload of children. Frankly I find them distracting. I imagine they run them all the time because the average school bus driver can't be counted on to possess the mental agility to turn them on and off at the appropriate times anyway.

[dynamike]

Here is an idea......... If you want to leave your ambers on then do so! If you would like to turn them off, then by all means turn them off!:D Whatever floats your boat! Oh and Merry Christmas to all you flashers and non flashers.

[Adams Plowing]

Just a thought for those of you who leave your lights on during the whole time when your plowing and also use your trucks as daily drivers in the winter. Do you run the lights every time you get in the truck to run to the store or to get gas on days when your not plowing? If you answered no then you have to take away the arguement that you have them on because your a hazardous vechicle. Its one thing although still probably against the law if the lights are on everytime the truck moves wether good or bad weather but if you normally drive it w/o the lights on non storm days then really other that wanting to feel special theres really no reason to run them on the roads during the storm unless the visibility is down to almost 0 after all usually if there going to get close enough to hit the blade itself there going to clip the truck too which they probably would have done anyways. just a little food for thought...

[drobson]

Seth you make a good point; however, one could argue that when adding 900lbs or so to the truck, the stopping distance, turning and response times are changed, which would make the truck more hazardous than the same vehicle without the blade on.

I still personally think that visibility is the most important use of running any kind of warning lights, but I just don't buy the argument that a vehicle isn't more hazardous with a plow in it than without.

[CPSS]

As I stated in another thread, each state has different laws regarding amber lights. Why don't we all just obey the local laws. I can't quite understand the reasoning " it's illegal but we all do it anyway".

In New York the V&T law clearly states the lights should be displayed when the vehicle is engaged in "Hazardous operations", and another section defines hazardous operations. It's pretty clear here. You can use the lights when plowing or salting, pulling into or backing out of lots or driveways, or on the roadway if you are actually plowing or salting the roadway.

There is no mention of leaving them on simply because you are driving with a plow attached to your truck.

[digger242j]

the stopping distance, turning and response times are changed, which would make the truck more hazardous than the same vehicle without the blade on.

That makes it the driver's responsibility to adjust his speed, following distance etc. to compensate, and mitigate the additional hazard. A CDL is required for trucks over 26,000 lbs. or for trailers over 10,000, and they don't require flashing warning lights.

Again, would you want them to pass a law requiring testing and permitting before you could take that hazardous vehicle out in traffic?

[apgarconstruction]

wow, that was a lot of different opinions in one thread.
personally, I see nothing wrong with driving on the road with a normal round amber rotating light on. not strobes all over the place. i agree, they would be a distracting. even when plowing, a rotating amber light or two, should be all you need to attract people(who shouldn't be out driving anyways). If someone can't see one or two amber lights rotating around, then they need to get their eyes checked. I think these types of lights are less distracting(on the job, or off the job) than having strobes on all four corners and a lightbar also. I'm not bashing anyone here either. to each his/her own. If I'm in a totally empty closed lot, by myself, I don't even run amber lights unless I'm near the road, or plowing the entrance/exits.

Merry Christmas everyone! or as Glenn Beck says........ Merry RamaHanuKwanzMas! (glenn beck is a talk radio guy, gotta listen for a while to really understand him, but fun to listen to)

[drobson]

Digger I think you missed the point of my post, as my quote is taken out of context without having the previous quote that it was in response to.

The point of my post was to disagree that a vehicle with a plow was no less hazardous than a vehicle with a plow.

And you are right, now that we have a vehicle that is more hazardous, it is the drivers' responsibility to counter that hazardousness (not sure if that is actually a word) with what they see fit. In some cases that will be slower speeds, extra distance between the vehicle in front of them, and yes, visible warning/hazzard lights.

When a truck that is designated as a "wide load" is driving down the highway, they have amber strobes on the truck, as well as on the vehcle in front and back of the hauling truck. Sometimes that is just a car that has magnet mount lights on it, to let the public know that there is a hazzard.

Actually, I would love for there to be a plow designation on Licenses like there is for a motorcycle. There should even be one for a trailer (any size). It sure would help get rid of some of the morons towing there snowmobiles and jetskis around that don't understand how towing works. I don't see too many problems with plows around here, most people seem to know how to drive with them, but it couldn't hurt. I for one would be more than happy to go take a road test to get my plow and/or trailer license.

[Roger Dodger]

Originally posted by dynamike
Here is an idea......... If you want to leave your ambers on then do so! If you would like to turn them off, then by all means turn them off!:D Whatever floats your boat! Oh and Merry Christmas to all you flashers and non flashers.

Here's an idea, let's apply that line of thought to other drivers :

- I can't be bothered to turn off the high-beams so I'll just leave them on everywhere I go!

- I like using the brake pedal as a footrest so I'll just leave it there!

- Why bother to use turn signals when other's will know of my intentions once I start to make the turn?


Hey Pelican, I believe the school buses that employ the rooftop strobes are primarily those on rural routes and interstate roads. I've noticed that trend in my area of Pa. although I doubt it's limited to just that reasoning alone.

[Got Grass]

Originally posted by wizardsr

If visibility is so bad that you can't see the guy in front of you, you shouldn't be driving at all. All of my contracts state that if blizard conditions exist, we will extend the deadlines. If the visibility is so bad that you sincerely believe the only way to drive is to run your emergency lights on the road, why are you taking your life into your hands anyway. So they can see you... doesn't help much if you cant see them...
Any cops on this forum that actually think it's a good idea to run down the highway distracting other drivers?
Not trying to argue, just trying to toss my $.02 in. Perhaps I've tossed a bit more than $.02... My bad...

My contracts have, service may be delayed due to blizzard conditions. Whiteouts &/or driving bans.
One reason I will not plow in one local town is becasue they ticket snowplowers durring driving bans. Everyone else lets the majority of us do our jobs. If the weather is horrible I still have to work, a lot of my customers do as well. I've been complimented and tiped many times for showing up at the worst of conditions.
Some of my customers include Firefighters, Police, EMS, DR's Nurse, people with medical conditions that require treatment, etc...
Personally I wouldnt want my house to burn down because the firefighters couldnt get out of thier driveways to the station.
Get injured and have some general dr who has been up straight for 3 days treating me becasue the specialist couldnt get in to the hospital.
When it's that bad out the problem is not us driving arround in the worst of conditions. It's the idiots & the soccer moms who think they need to get milk, bottled water and a loaf of bread. Driving arround in thier suv's, going way to fast for the conditions tring to find a store thats open becasue the clerks got stranded.
Fully knowing the conditions, they are a hazard, not knowing how to drive, thinking the only other ones on the road are plow truck and we can all stop on a dime to avoid hitting them.
Plow headlights are not all that bright and any extra help to let thoes idiots know that we are on the road, over the hill arround the curve or whatever it's is a great thing, when such conditions prevail and I think everyone sould run lights then.

Now as far as simply driving arround in traffic plowing a few inches of snow then they sould be turned off. Hell I get annoied by my own light many a time and leave it off.

Remember this, we can get 7ft of snow in a matter of days, at least a couple times a year over 20"... Heck today they said it was going to be NICE out this morning w/ flurries... That soon changed we we got 10" of snow coming down at over 2" an hr. A TON of people were running thier lights. I didnt feel the need to as for some reason I always managed to find myself following some old couple going 10mph in a 45 zone & hit the brakes 1/4 mile from the intersection... All depends on the condtions...

[Pelican]

Originally posted by Roger Dodger
Here's an idea, let's apply that line of thought to other drivers :

- I can't be bothered to turn off the high-beams so I'll just leave them on everywhere I go!

- I like using the brake pedal as a footrest so I'll just leave it there!

- Why bother to use turn signals when other's will know of my intentions once I start to make the turn?



These activities are all governed by law as safety issues, you'd be in violation of these laws in this practice. They are distinctly different than the topic at hand, at least in my area where no governing law exists.

[Lazer Man]

I've got to side with Digger and Rodger on this issue. Unless actively plowing or salting warning lights should not be used. It is our job as a plow operator to operate our vehicle in a safe manner as to not interfer with others . I always try to drive in a super defensive mode while driving with my plow and spreader on the truck. As Got Grass stated: "When it's that bad out the problem is not us driving arround in the worst of conditions. It's the idiots & the soccer moms who think they need to get milk, bottled water and a loaf of bread. Driving arround in thier suv's, going way to fast for the conditions tring to find a store thats open becasue the clerks got stranded. " What happens when a plow truck warning lights ablaze is driving toward them, they drivers stated above go from a bad driver to a bad driver driving offensively. And in all my experience when they start driving offensively the problems start. They usually overreact and do something dumb like get to close to the berm on their side and either end up comeing into my lane or worse spinout and either hitt me or the poor guy behind me. I am a former firefighter and can tell many stories of the idiotic things drivers have dine to "get out of my way". I had one driver cut right across the road in front of my apparatus while responding with all warning lights and siren for no reason as he wasn't even in my way and had his own clear lane causing me to nail my brakes and almost put the truck into a skid. It is my firm opinion that I'd rather be as unnoticeable to the other drivers as possible. The less crazy they drive the better for me. I want to stay on the defensive and keep the driving ball in my court as I'm the professional driver and know how to handle my vehicle appropriately.

Rodger I've also noticed the white strobes on school busses lately myself. Not sure what the reason is for the light as they seem to always be in operation while the bus is on. I've also noticed the clear strobes on some construction vehicles also and I do like the two different colors as it does draw more attention. If you also notice on newer fire apparatus on the rear they all have added a amber light and it is very noticable at nite along with the normal red lights. All this is just my 2 cents hope someone understands my meaning about the operation of warning lights.

Bob :D :D :D :salute

[Crash935]

I cant agree that leaving the flashers, strobes and any other warning light on while driving down the road adds to safety.
Having just made 2 round trips from columbus to denver and doing most of the driving at night in good weather, i was unfamiliar with the laws in states where towtrucks are required to run with warning lights at all times. I dont know how many times i found myself backing out of the throttle expecting some kind of emergency only to find some wrecker rolling down the highway in the opposite direction without anything in tow. Luckly , i'm not a brake jammer so i didnt cause any pileups, but i could see where it could cause someone to panic.

[ytrenbv]

Who cares.

[mikegamb]

Originally posted by BRL
Yea we keep them on all the time. We are mostly plowing the lots when they are empty and generally we don't need them for ourselves as we know what we are up to like well oiled machines at this point. But we leave them on for going down the road to heopefully keep us safer while moving amongst the moron regular drivers out on the roads. So I respectfully disagree with the idea of turning them off between jobs. (its illegal to even have them here, so I know we are breaking the law either way, but I will take the fine for the hopefully added safety factor).


I agree 100%

In my state you need a permit,but I think its a waste of money just give me the fine.I get a discount on my insurance for both trucks.

[BOUNDS-ELECTRIC]

Originally posted by GreenDuramax04
My dealer told me that they are required by law in Maryland for plow trucks. Then again he might have been just trying to sell me a light.

Jesse

B
In Md. the law only lets Highway repair trucks run amber beacons! If a State cop wants to he can fine a tow truck, rollbacks or any other truck with these lights! I only found out when I had a truck inspected and they let me know! They have only stopped me once! I forgot to turn off and was going down the road! I got a warning!

[Heron Cove PM]

Originally posted by BOUNDS-ELECTRIC
B
In Md. the law only lets Highway repair trucks run amber beacons! If a State cop wants to he can fine a tow truck, rollbacks or any other truck with these lights! I only found out when I had a truck inspected and they let me know! They have only stopped me once! I forgot to turn off and was going down the road! I got a warning!

I got a $70.00 fine for not displaying one on my truck, in PG County about 4 years ago. It held up in court as well.

[CPSS]

This section is from the Maryland Traffic Law:



§ 22-218.2. Amber lights on tow trucks, escort, and maintenance vehicles.


(a) Amber lights.- One or more amber flashing lights may be displayed:

(1) By a tow truck while at the scene of an accident or a disabled vehicle or while towing a vehicle; and


(2) By snow removal and other highway maintenance and service equipment and escort vehicles.

It sure looks to me like amber lights may be displayed on snow plows. Like I said earlier, check with your local laws.

[naturecare]

Originally posted by CT18fireman
We as most around here do keep them on all the time. From start to finish of the route.
during a heavy storm I will keep it on whole time, but when I go back to do final clean upand and snows done I will shut it off on the road.