diesel idle

[EZSnow]

2003 7.3L PSD
On a cold morning startup (plugged in or not), after about 30 sec, the exhaust back-pressure valve closes to create an annoying hissing noise (normal), then the idle comes up. How far the idle comes up varies from 750-1000rpm, and depends on the morning and whether it was plugged in or not, but at +6*F and plugged in, she still got up to 1000. It will also high-idle in cold weather even after being up to full operating temp. I DO NOT have an automatic idle control.

My plans are to install a remote starter, so I can get into a clean-windowed, warm vehicle in the morning, since this bus doesn't even come close to fitting in my garage. Also, I have a short trip to work that doesn't get everything up to full operating temp, and I was thinking that idling it *close* to operating temp would allow it to reach full temp by the time I have to shut 'er down.

However, I have also read that extended idling is not good for a diesel- it must be driven (especially on a cold start)

Here's the question: Is the high idle provided by the ECM ~1,000rpm high enough to avoid any damage to the motor? Is it smart enough to know that "it's cold and I need to idle high to stay alive"?

PLEASE EDGEUMACAIT ME!!!

[wyldman]

What is it that makes diesel burn ??


It's heat.Heat is created by the high compression in a diesel engine,so when the fuel is injected into the cylinder,it is ignited.


After a cold start,or during peiods of extended idling,the cold air,intercoolers,and the massive cooling system can prevent enough heat from being created,and the diesel will not burn completely.


The unburnt fuel will wash down the cylinder (remove the oil film),and causes excessive cylinder wear.It can also dilute the oil and cause other lubrication related problem.


Raising the idle,or adding restriction to the exhaust (exhaust brake or exhaust back pressure valve) will build heat,and prevent this from happening.Cycling the glow plugs or grid heaters warms the incoming air to help as well.


Every engine is different,as to how many RPM's it needs to build enough heat.On my Cummins,it's about 1300.On most Fords,a 1000 RPM will do the trick.


The Manufacturers are now adding devices and\or software strategy to implement high idle,exhaust backpressure,and glow plug cycling.


One other thing is the difference between direct injected,and indirect injected engines.Direct injected engines are more prone to this problem,as they do not use a prechamber to help keep heat in the area of the injection.That's why it's more important to not cold idle a Cummins,as it's direct injected.


Regarding the question about the remote starter on a diesel,it will work.You truck has the exhaust backpressure valve,and the high idle strategy.It also will cycle the glow plugs.You should have no worries about letting it warm up in the driveway on the remote start.


Get a good remote start,made for a diesel.It must have some sort of option to delay the start until the glow plugs cycle.There are two types.One with a fixed delay,and one that triggers off the glow plug relay.The second one is better,as it will start right when the glow plugs shut off.


If anyone wants more info on the direct injection vs indirect injection,i can post that later,my fingers are getting tired. :D

[EZSnow]

AND THAT, MY FRIENDS IS WHY I'M HERE!!!

Wonderfully educational, chris- thank you!

I have heard that is is required to install a potentiometer (adjustable electronic timer) in order to accomplish wait-to-start feature, as the dash light in the 2002-current trucks doesn't carry enough voltage to signal the remote starter. Using the glow plug relay is an interesting idea- is that a pretty standard operating procedure?

[wyldman]

You can use the glow plug light or the glow plug relay,anywhere there is a signal as to when the glow plugs shut off.

A potentiometer is not a timer.It's more like a throttle position sensor,or a volume knob,that changes resistance through it rotation.

[EZSnow]

well, if a potentiometer ain't a timer.... I gotta find a new installer!!! Whew- that was a close one! some people-:headwall

[Clean Cut Lawns]

wyldman how would you hook up to the wait to start light on the Cummins i have a 98.5 that i would like to add the remote start to, any suggestions?

[wyldman]

It's probably easier to run out to the grid heater relays,drivers side inner fenderwell area,and connect to one of the trigger wires.Use a test light,and watch for cycling power at one of the little terminals.

[Clean Cut Lawns]

Thanks wyldman,
what brand remote starter/alarm do u recomend?

[Dockboy]

EZSow,

Most remote starts have a selectible delay option on them. You can select for example 10, 15, 20 sec. ect before the starter engages. That is the easist way around the WTS light. Or like Chris said, you can tap into the relay itself.

The High Idle is controlled by the PCM. It uses the AIT (Air intake Temp) sensor, located in the Intake box, and the EOT (Engine Oil Temp) among other things, to determine when to high idle. And by the way, you do not need a EBV (Exhaust Back Preasure Valve) for it to high idle. Mine has been gone for a long time;)

As far as extended idling, Chris comments are right on:notworthy Some real world experience. I do not have an AIC either. My truck is running and idleing more than it is not, especially in the winter. The thing has 110k mi. on it of HARD use!! I did a compression check a couple months ago while swapping some injectors just for kicks. All cylinders were within 5 lbs. of each other and a brand new stock motor:shades

Bottom line, I wouldn't worry to much about idleing!:beatsme

[NovaLC]

I have a high idle switch on my '98 GMC 6.5 Turbo Diesel.

It's wired into the PCM, I found the instructions somewhere on the 'net, if anyone is interested I can track it down again.

It's very simple, just one wire from a toggle switch to a pin in the PCM connector. I set it at 1,000 rpm.

[John DiMartino]

My remote start is hooked to the grid heaters,it waits for them to cycle. the brake wire on my unit doubles as this wire.it isnt hard to hook up and works great. My brother Vinnie did mine when he managed a stereo shop.I did my last Cummins,they both worked excellent. I think my unit is a Crimestopper 900 series,its meant to work with diesels,I can double check if anyone is interested.i have used these units for over 6 yrs now without one single problem other than the batterys dying every yr or so in the remote control:) . One of my good friends run automotive audio,a stereo shop locally in Newburgh,that where i got mine,he install them there.
EZ snow, I agree 100% with wyldman,you will have no problems idling the PSD sincei it had built in hi idling and the backpressure valve. The only thing id like to add,is the Cummins 24V is the worst with this problem,after hrs of plowing,simply letting it idle for 5 minutes at 30 degrees it will cool off to 160-170 degrees.There is a direct correlation between engine efficiency and running to cool at idle.The cummins burn so little fuel idling that there isnt enough BTu of fuel energy,and friction heat to maintain that 1000 lb chuck of iron at 190 degrees.So they cool right down even though its running.Indirect injected diesels are not as efficient as direct injected,they burn more fuel,so they rum hotter at idle,the problem isnt as bad.I used to run my exhaust brake,but now that do not have one(twin turbos),I hi idle it at 1500,this does the trick.

[Clean Cut Lawns]

john thanks sfor the info on the Alarm Unit!

What happen to your PacBrake is it MIA:D

Also don't tuch my S-10 engine, if its bommed before i pick it up me and you are going to have to go at it:argue

[John DiMartino]

Clean Cut UH, my pac brake is MIA:confused: .I like the twins much better anyway. As for your engine,its too late:D .Its stroked,sleeved,and all new internals,and the nitrous fogger system is installed hidden under the intake, very Stealth. Vinnie even came by and put the finishing touches on it( an OCC sticker) :D .

[Clean Cut Lawns]

did vinny use the new heat shrink around all the wires

[atgreene]

NovaLC, where did you find the info on the 6.5 idle setting switch? My 6.5 idles all the time. On real cold nights I come in for 2-3 hours for a rest and leave it running. I haven't decided if its cheaper than paying the electric bill or just more convienent than shutting it down. It would be nice to bump up the rpms for quick warm-up with a switch like you have. If you find the instructions, please feel free to pass it on. Thanks

[nben]

atgreene

Here is a link for the fast idle set-up on the 6.5's. http://www.kennedydiesel.com/ it's under the tech tips section. With your truck you will have the option of two different idle speeds. GoodLuck!!

[NovaLC]

Originally posted by nben
atgreene

Here is a link for the fast idle set-up on the 6.5's. http://www.kennedydiesel.com/ it's under the tech tips section. With your truck you will have the option of two different idle speeds. GoodLuck!!

Thanks, I couldn't remember where I saw it.

[atgreene]

Thank you!

[CPSS]

On the 2002 and newer Fords, the dash lights are powered by a digital data buss, so you can't locate a voltage source for the WTS light. My remote starter simply waits 30 seconds before starting.

The problem that Chris described so well is called "wet stacking", there has been considerable argument in the industry regarding the temperatures at which this becomes a real problem. To be on the safe side I installed a Ford Auxillary Idle Controller (AIC). I set mine to gradually ramp up the idle speed to 1200 RPM, whenever the parking brake is engaged, and the vehicle is in park. It's around $300, and just plugs in to a connector under the dash. It has many other features also.

Heres a picture, it's just to the right of the GPS.

[BOUNDS-ELECTRIC]

Is this why they say plugging one in will add life to engine!

[EZSnow]

CPSS- $300?!?! The prices I've seen are in the $600 range and nobody I've talked to at the dealerships really knows anything about them... and there's no installation required beyond plugging it in?

[Dockboy]

Derek,

You can find them on Ebay all the time;) They go for anywhere from $175 to $300. Make sure you find one with a bracket;) And yes, they just plug into existing plugs under the dash:D

Oh, but they are digital! LOL!!;) :jk

[Dockboy]

Here you go!:D

AIC (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33596&item=2451145769)

[Dockboy]

Derek,

Here are some more for you;)

For Sale: AIC
Date 12-09-2003 @ 06:22:01 PM
Name Rick Weissmann
E-mail pitrow@fuse.net
City Cincinnati
State Ohio
Phone 513-266-1069
Item AIC
Price $300.00
Description AIC, New in box fits 7.3 and 6.0 Has display. Buyer pays shipping. Thanks. Rick


For Sale: AIC For 7.3 or 6.0
Date 12-07-2003 @ 08:12:10 AM
Name Wayne Klekamp
E-mail floridawayne@aol.com
City Vero Beach
State Florida
Phone 772-473-5886
Item AIC For 7.3 or 6.0
Price $300.00
Description AIC, Auxillary Idle Control, used for 3 months all wiring and instructions, and bracket come with it. Simple hookup, just plug and play! LCD display and PTO operation. Perfect condition works great. I will pay shipping in continental US!!


For Sale: AIC
Date 12-06-2003 @ 05:01:37 PM
Name Mike Giles
E-mail jetmech018@aol.com
City Corona
State Ca
Phone 909-898-1015
Item AIC
Price $250.00
Description Idle Controller and bracket for powerstroke. Like new

[CPSS]

The list price from the dealer is around $600. Don't pay that. Some of the cheaper AIC's advertised don't have the digital display. They work, but don't give you any info such as RPM, battery voltage, etc. And yes, they just plug into a plug thats under the fuse access panel.

[Randy Clarke]

Remote starts are great for cool down time after a long haul, we just re-start our 7.3 Ex on it at the end of a run to cool down than auto shut -off...no need to come back out of the hotel until morning. I am also seeing some of the truck stops we eat in having "no idle rule"...but they won't bother you on a cool down.

[EZSnow]

well, guys- looks like AIC's aren't nearly as spendy as I thought they were. Sorry, I've been gone for a while... cheating on you guys for a coupla gun forums. But it seems they aren't as helpful- kinda like PS these days. (come to think of it, I haven't been there in weeks.

Anyway, I think I'm comfortable with how the computer handles extended idling in cold weather. Before full operating temp, it idles up (as high as 1200) and closes up the EBPV. Even after its all toasty, it'll idle up to about 1000 if left long enough and its cold enough.

I may look into talking a friend out of his idle control... my bet is that he doesn't even know what it does!

[Jay ALC]

I ordered my newest PSD with the AIC and even if you order it with the truck from the factory it is cheaper but you still have to install it yourself. There is a company that makes a perfectly designed bracket to tuck the controller closer to the floor and dash. Once using one you'll know what I mean, because the stock bracket is made to work in the stick shift model trucks as well so it sticks out farther into the truck than some may like. I do love the AIC for nice warm heat and nice cold A/C in the summer, as well as ramped up voltage controls for demoing the plow or using all my other electronic "toys". It can also help when you wanna jump start another vehicle with all the juice you can get. :)

[CPSS]

I also adjusted the ramp up speed on mine so that when it kicks in, it takes a few seconds to gradually come up to speed. The factory default is like mashing on the pedal quick.