How would you approach this City sanded private lot

[chtucker]

That med center lot that I lost to a lowballer looks like CRAP! 4" of ice on very sloped lot.

There are three entities capable of machine spreading material in a 40 mile radius (no kidding) Me, the county and the city.

The county road and bridge director clearly stated to me and the med center that he could not and would not sand their PRIVATELY owned lot.

Today I drive by and the lot has had sand spread. I have yet to talk to the Street supervisor, but I did contact the mayor (sure is a small town:D ) and expressed my concerns that

A)City is now competing with private businesses such as myself and not charging for it

B) City is assuming liability for slip and fall accidents in a private medical facility and is at the mercy of the lowballer snowplowing contractor.

How far would you push this issue? It obviously has me ticked off as I am the only one who has invested in the capability?

Howard

[atgreene]

I would assume that your state has a law forbiding the expenditure of public funds on private property, to prevent just such problems. I've dealt with similar situations, it's an uphill battle. A detailed complaint with complete documentation, including copies of laws or ordinances, photos, dates and times, as well as a cost analyssis showing the direct cost and liability to the taxpayer would propel your case.

[gslam88]

Howard,

My concerns would be more like why is the town plowing private property at the tax payers expense?

If they will do the privately held medical center ... could they do your customers also... that way there is less were and tear on your trucks and you still get paid ...

The city working on private property and maintaining it --who has liability... the private owner or the town?? I think a lawyer would love this ...

Depending on the mayor's response.... if he just does not care ... go to the tv or newspaper
I would think that the towns people would not like to pay for someone else work....

Just my .02


Pete

[CT18fireman]

The city or county may be deeming the private property as a necessary emergency access. It is a hospital. All else aside they may feel that it is necessary to provide safe passage.


Legally you may have grounds but it will be a tough battle.

[sno-mover]

I understand and see where you are comming from, I would be mad too but I would also take in the fact that its such a small town and everyone knows each other, If you make a big deal everyone will here about it. It may or may not be a big deal, I dont know your situation, just another point of view

Would you like to have this contract back?
Keep us posted:)

[chtucker]

I take of care of the Hospital. This is a privately owned doctors office that is adjacent to the hospital that I lost to the lowballer.

Do I want this back? Of course, more business with a low trigger that is next to a property that I already take care of.

We'll see. I am friends with the mayor, the city street supervisor and the county roads director. I know it was not me or the county that sanded.....

Howard

[Crazygator]

Do you know the lowballer?
Do they have insurance?

Could be a good angle with your Mayor connection. Especially since its a medical building, and I am sure many have to come there for various kinds of treatments.

Sounds like a nasty setup for a slip and fall just waiting to happen!

[sno-mover]

If your friends with the mayor and streets supervisor and such I would not take any legeal action that will get anyone in trouble. I think you will end up back with the contract, the guy just feels like a jerk to call you back after he went with a lower price. He probly sanded it himself.

[chtucker]

I certainly won't take legal action, just not worth the time/money. It was not spread by hand. It was the cinders from the combined city/county stockpile and it was definately spread by a v box.

We will see?

[CT18fireman]

Is it that important to have it back this year? No offense but it almost seems like you are being vengeful. You repeately state you are the only one with a spreader, so that is your angle.

The rest of us deal with this competition all the time. Not worth fighting it. If you service is good then the contract will come back to you.

Eventually others may invest in spreaders and more equipment, then what will you do? They will be calling foul when you get contracts because of who you know.

I apologize for the mistake on the medical center.

[chtucker]

You are probably right. And I am venting here. I was/am upset about the lowballer thing. I am not offended by what you said.

The only thing that I don't want, is to be competing with the City who is spreading product and using equipment and time that I payed a portion of. If this was the case, what would be next the grocery store or some of the offices that I do? Granted this is a doctor's office and the conditions in the lot are horrendous. But, what is to say that another office manager can't ask the street department to take a couple of passes through?

Am I the only one with a spreader.... YEP. Leadville has a long history of snow. Snows every year. Throughout the last 50 years the population used to be 5 times as many as there are now (currently 10k people). It is hard to explain, but with the "miner's" mentaility and the lack of work ethic, no one has ever privately invested the money into the snow removal/ice management business like I have (newer, efficient equipment) except for myself. I bid on a grocery store and was the ONLY qualified, equipped and insured company to submit a legitamite bid. Back east, and I grew up in Wilton, how many contractors would kill for a grocery store?

So am I ****y, no. I just don't like the government giving freebies as my competition.

Howard


and I know there are ton of spelling mistakes:D

[JCurtis]

Why don't you go politely talk to the people at the doctor's office. Surely there must be someone in charge?

Maybe they needed it sanded and felt too embarrassed to call you and ask if you could bail them out.

Since you have a history with them, why not go in and say something like this....

Hi, I noticed that the parking area wasn't properly maintained (plowed) during the recent storms. And Now I see that it was sanded, who sanded it for you? Was it the contractor you hired to take the account over from me or was it someone else? Why did he wait so long to sand, It must have been a terriblly dangerous situation for your patients and staff as they tried to walk through the lots?

(if it was someone else say something along the lines like this)

If you guys needed the lot sanded and your plowing contractor couldnt handle your service needs, I wish you would have called me, I am right next door at the Hospital and would have been more than happy to help you out in a tight spot!

Oh and by the way, if you would like me to, I would be willing to take over the account and provide sanding services for the remainder of this season for ( insert price here) and would also be willing to discuss and sign you up for a two or three year contract.


If you talk politely to them, and show them how professional you are, I am sure they would give you the account back immediately. They already know what kind of service you provide.

[CPSS]

I use salting as a "deal closer" on some of my seasonal accounts. There are lots of guys with plows around here, but not as many salters. Sometimes if I really want a property, ( because its next door to another that I already have), I will include salting at no additional charge. That usually clinches the deal.

[Alan]

No matter what you do you will probably be accused of a case of "sour grapes". I've lost accounts because of in house politics and other types of backstabbing. And when they were poorly maintained I inquired about the status of things and was told that everything was fine and mind my business. "Fine", in those cases, apparently meant that snowpack and even black ice was acceptable.

There seems to be a mentality that as long as you are not paying a lot of money you can accept any level of service. I've seen lots I took care of going to lowballers who virtually ignored them. When I was doing them I had tried for bare and black, the low bidders were using the white and packed criteria and that was acceptable. What really gets me is that you can keep a lot clean forever and never get one word of praise for it but let it get away from you just once and they sure know how to complain.

If you are still on good terms with those folks you might just want to let them know you would be happy to take the job back next year and offer to sand them as they need it this year. I think I would try to ask the city people if they did sand it but I wouldn't make too many waves if they did. You will just be accused of being spiteful about not getting the job(the sour grape thing again). If you approach them and get told the new guy is doing a great job you might as well write it off, they aren't about to admit they made a mistake.

[chtucker]

ct, jcurtis cpss and alan and the others.... I have calmed down now and will head your advice.

Just got to remember, losing this account gave me extra time to pick up an account that is 2x more profitable.

Howard

[chtucker]

Plus it is BLIZZARDING OUT 5-10 predicted with 60mph winds:D

[Crazygator]

Good for you! :D

Now go get the other one back too......LOL!

[Mick]

Originally posted by chtucker
Just got to remember, losing this account gave me extra time to pick up an account that is 2x more profitable.

Howard

It seems like it always works that way. The one you lose gets replaced by two more that are even better.

[szorno]

Howard, the only thing you might do is to carry your digital camera with you. If you actually see a city truck doing anything there, you might catch a pic and get it to the newspaper. Outside of that, leave it go. We had 1/2 inch of blow over this morning. No work for anyone except the tow trucks and ambulances for folks who under- estimated the slickness.:rolleyes: