This is a tough business

[snowman914]

I work with a guy who asked me to put in a bid for plowing his sub. I did so and they took my bid or so I thought. I plowed his subdivision road which was about half a mile long. one swipe in and one swipe out and sanded. I was going to charge 75 dollars a time. On the second snowfall I was called and told that my services were no longer needed. I went over to the location today and wanted to see what was going on. I went to talk to the association president and was told that my price was way to much and they got someone to do it for 2000 dollars for the entire season. My replacement never is on time does a real crappy job and doesnt sand. Was my bid that high?

[cat320]

How many storms and how many inches to you adverage? Then you can see if you high or low but it sound like they are shopping on price and not service.I would tell them you could do it for less if they want poor service have them sign a waiver for sanding Etc. ETC.

[Joey D]

Not to stick up for the guy who is doing it cheaper but, maybe he is new to the plowing game and like most things we do we learn on the way and sometimes the hard way, by losing money or not making what we should have.

[snowman914]

I dont know how many inches my area averages Im new to the area , but I know living here in northern Michigan that we have pretty good winters. The area in question is out in the open with high winds so it is always drifting shut. Plowing twice a day would not be unusual. I also found out tonight that the guy plowing it is the association presidents brother. As much attention as it is going to need as far as I am concerned he can have it. At 90 plows for this season he will make about 22 dollars a plow. Good Luck to him:rolleyes:

[BWhite]

LOL Some day I would like to tell the customer ..Well OK ,I will do the job for the same money and I promise I will do a slightly less crappy job than they will do and if I get the job do it :D

[Pickering Snow]

Snowman

Probley better off anyway , i have been sucked into condo deals and sub like you truth is that guys relation is probley giving him a kick back and charging off the billing to all the residents seen it been there!!! Your area wil most likley see around 25 snow events your price was more than fair the guys cheating the system!!!

[snowman914]

Your absolutely right , Im not going to let it bug me. I have been having a real tough year with trying to start my own business. I have had nothing but problems with my plow and truck as far as mechanical gremlins. All my bids for plowing were rejected aside from the church account I landed and thats only because my in laws are members there. Things are not looking up. It sucks being new to the business and the area. :headwall

[JCurtis]

That MAY mean you need to look at your pricing structure, or your bidding process.

I am NOT saying that your pricing is wrong, because I don't know how you priced your bids. I am just saying that if ALL your bids were rejected ( with the exception of the church your inlaws are members of) that might be trying to tell you something.

You may want to go back and ask some of these people why they rejected your bid. Some will tell you, some won't. I had a commercial property that I bid on that I didn't get, When I asked, I was told that I was almost 1/3 higher than the landscaper that does the landscape work at the site. So now I can keep my eye on the account, see the kind of job they do, what kind of equipment this guy throws at the account and go back to the Facilities Manager in the spring and find out if they were happy with the service.

Its funny, because the last thing he said to me was, and I quote " I don't know if we made the right choice, maybe we'll end up getting what we pay for"

So now I have an idea where this guy is coming from. There's that old saying " Cheap you buy, Cheap you get ! "

You will never get every job you go after unless your pricing is ridiculously low. I always felt that if I compared the accounts I have to the accounts I didn't get on a comparative basis, The ones I didn't get were ones I didn't really want, or maybe I had a gut feeling that they would be a P.I.T.A as a customer, so I priced accordingly.

Good Luck.

[snowman914]

I went and talked to some of the places I bid on. Most said that my bids were only several dollars higher than the bid that was accepted. So I cant be to far off.

[JCurtis]

At least you know that you were close. You would be surprised how many guys I know that submit bids and never question why they werent the successful bidder.

To me, knowing why I lost a bid is another tool for me to use in building a better business.

[John DiMartino]

Well said Jeff. I agree, Snowman ,sharpen your pencil and you'll be getting some of this work. And this is a tough business. It looks a lot easier than it is.

[CPSS]

And don't feel that you have to lower your prices in the next bid. It's easy to get caught up on the "bidding" process. I've had several property managers attempt to get me to lower my bid by saying that "so and so" quoted several hundred dollars less than you..... The temptation is to say "OK, I'll do it for that". Hold your ground, you'll get some work. Do an above average job and the word will spread.

People think I'll just hang a plow on my truck and go into the snowplowing business and make lots of money. It's not quite that easy. Start out slow, next year you'll get a couple more jobs. This year after you finish the lot you have, take a drive around some upscale neighborhoods. You'll see someone out shoveling. Make them an offer, just don't be too low.

[wyldman]

I'd rather have 2-3 jobs that pay me well,than 10 that don't pay me squat.I see way to many guys killing themselves (and their equipment) just to make a few $$$.If things go wrong,they end up losing.Most of them give up in a few years.

Stick to your guns,and keep your pricing if you feel it is accurate.We are in this to make a living,not help other people get rich by doing it cheap.

At some point,you may have to adjust your prices to suit the market,but make sure you have the efficiency to do so.If you can't make money doing it,don't bother.

[JCurtis]

What I was suggesting was that he find out how close he actually was in his pricing.

If its a matter of a few or several dollars then he is in the ballpark.

however if it is (say in the case of a commercial property) off by several hundreds or thousands of dollars then I would suggest that he look at his figures to determine where he can do better.

Some times its just a matter of a guy having too high a profit margin and thinking he can get rich quick.

Not saying that this was your situation, but do you know what your Profit margin is?

Can you deal with say a 5% lower Profit margin and still make a good profit or are you so close to the bone that you're scraping the bone?

[John DiMartino]

Pricing is the most difficult area,IMO. Like Wyldman said id rather have 2-3 accounts that pay well. I have lost a few bids,and found out i was oh so close.If i could rebid them i wouild have dropped that little bit in price to get the work.I guess my problem is im very particular about how i keep my lots, I take more time and keep them perfect.Once i get an account I usually never lose it,my work speaks for itself,as im sure most members here do the same.The thing is to get in the door,and still make good $$,then you can inch your price up the following years.When one of my seasonal accounts renewed this yr,they told me right out that they had 2 cheaper bids,but my service was so good the last 3 yrs that they didnt feel it was worth taking the chance when I kept the place so safe and accessable. They also liked that I had good solid trucks,set up for anything,and that there lots were better maintained than the town road leading to it throught the winter since ive had the account.

[landman]

You may have to adjust your pricing a little, I know around by me in one town you could charge $300.00 and 2 towns away you could charge $400.00 for the same exact job. Sometimes pricing could be off by just dollars but to big companies those few dollars matter. If you do land a few good accounts make sure you service them well and take care of them, I have found in the past that we land an account and take very good care of them and when you increase the prices year to year the won't question it because they will fell the service is worth it, on the other hand when we go and bid a new account we sell them on the service and not really the price as well as a detailed outline and history of our company and services as well as a list of all our clients and encourage them to check our refrences and ask about our services and usually that will sell them I know for a fact because I just signed 1 Very large big $ account this season and it was on the service aspect and not price, the guy I was bidding against was there for the last 5 years but did not service the account the way it should have been. The maintenance manager even told me it was my experience and refrences that sold them even though I came in 10% higher then the existing guy. So keep the faith and you will make it. As I was told once before you have to crawl before you walk!

[Robh]

"Id rather go broke fishing" IE: Id rather sit at home on my terms, then push snow on thiers.....Rob