engine woes, cont'd

[TomatoRedGMC]

ok guys....i'm getting there....i have a couple pics, one w/o te rockers on, and one with....i'll post the one w/out.....te heads were dipped, my brother-n-law, (god bless him! :D ) tapped out all the bolt holes in the block, and did an excellent job cleaning stuff up. he's been a great help, and i have to give him credit. anyway, just want to be sure adjusting these rockers, does each cylinder have to be at top dead center when i put them on turn past zero lash? i ask because there is nothing in the engine manual that elaborated on this......in my mind, each cylinder has to be topped out to properly adjust the valves...

thanks guys, couldn't have done it w/out all of you guys!!! THANKS!!!!!

Walt

[John DiMartino]

Walt,it looks great!! You do not have to bring each cylinder to TDC.you should be ableto adjust 1/2 of them with it at TDC and the other 1/2 of them the next time around when #1 is on the exhaust stroke

[wyldman]

Glad to see it's finally going together.Don't forget the assembly lube on the valve stems and push rods.

Zero lash is where all play is removed from the valvetrain,but the lifter is not yet compressed.Turn the rocker nuts down until you just feel a light drag on the push rod,this is zero lash.Then go one full turn on the nut.

To set the valve,you can do it by bringing each cyl to TDC compression.Start with TDC#1,and adjust the #1 valves,then turn the engine exactly 90 degrees,and do the next one in the firing order.Turn another 90 degrees,and do the next,following the firing order.

An easier way is to find TDC #1,line up the 0 timing mark and then adjust the following valves

Intake cyl # 1,2,5,7
Exhaust cyl # 1,3,4,8

Turn the engine 360 degrees,1 full turn to TDC #6,line the timing mark up at 0,and then adjust the following valves

Intake cyl # 3,4,6,8
Exhaust cyl#2,5,6,7

That's it.Let us know how it turns out.

[TomatoRedGMC]

ok! I think i can handle that. I was very liberal with the lube....i put it on every moving part there is.....rods, lifters, stem tops, stems when istalling the valves, rockers, everything......

BUT,

should i set the intake and distributor first? that way i can keep the timing close to what it was before i tore it down.....well, i guess i can use the mark on the balancer, i know whereabouts TDC on #1 corresponds to the strib placment.....i don't have that little metal timing clip on top of the balancer for timing....i'll have to mark the block where #1 TDC is, right?

[wyldman]

Like i've always said,you can never have too much lube,and the same applies to engines. :D

Do the valves with the intake off,then you can see the lifter plunger,and it's easier to find zero lash.

Get one of those bolt on chrome timing tabs,and use that.Find true TDC,and then scribe your balancer to correspond with the new tab.

Then set the engine to TDC #1,and line the mark up at about 10 degrees.Install the intake,and then drop the dist in lining up the rotor with #1 on the cap.

That should get it close enough to start right up.

[TomatoRedGMC]

sweet...that makes sense...i'll let you know how it turns out.....

this afternoon, gonna find out what kind of baby were having!!! Girl or Boy, as long as its healthy! :D

thanks again!

[wyldman]

Great.Having a child is one of the greatest things in life.Go enjoy it,let us know what you have !

[TomatoRedGMC]

We're soon the see if we've done everything right.... This is the first time we've dug this far into a motor and put it back together, so i'm a little nervous.......I hope takin our time has paid off. :eek:

Hats off to Eric, who has been there the whole way. Thanks dude!

heres a pic of the finished product......yeah, it's a klunker, but i love it!

I'll post in a few hours when we try and fire her....it was too late last night.....It has straight 2" duals out each side.... :burnout

Wish us Luck!!! :cool:

[TomatoRedGMC]

I found the timing tab......I was looking in the wrong place.....you have to look behing the water pump :geez

[johngus]

Hey Walt,just curious,why didn't youguys paint everything when you had it apart?I know it doesn't make it run better but just makes it look complete.Its hard to convince someone that its new when it doesn't look that way.anyway looks great to me and hope it runs perfect.theres nothing like a job done by yourself.

[TomatoRedGMC]

ok guys.....got it running. a little bit........

seems we just can't get it dialed in.....when we get the timing mark close on the tab, seems to cut out.....have to back it off the mark quite a bit...when we think we have it, it just runs rough.....we popped the cap, and tried turning the strib one notch, then a couple notches, then try again, and just runs real rough.....took it down the road, and if i was light on the gas, had lots of power...when i pushed the pedal down a little bit it cut out and popped, lifted off the gas and it was ok.....then, when in gear and idleing, it was rough to the point it kept stalling....in park it idled, roughly though..... :help I've never had this much trouble getting the timing right on a truck......

thanks,

walt

[wyldman]

Is the centrifugal advance sticking ? Try moving the rotor.It should be free,and snap back when you release it.

Maybe someone has changed the balancer,or timing cover and the timing marks are incorrect ? They had a few different styles with the marks in different places.

It could be something else.Did you turn the carb upside down when you had it off ? Maybe the float is sticking.Is the choke coming off properly ? Did you put new plugs in it ? Valves too tight maybe.

[TomatoRedGMC]

yeah...it will idle all day......as sooon as you drop it in D, it all goes to .... I kept the carb level, best i could......choke opened right up when she got warm.....i may have got the valve too tight, i'll have to check......a few rockers that seemed to get loose after i tighten them down a tighten another 1/4 turn...... hindsight, i guess as long as the rod won't go up and down, and the rocker seems 'loose', that ok........i dunno....i'll have to check the vavles.....maybe back them off a 1/4 turn on a few.....

[wyldman]

It is possible to overtighten the valves if your not careful finding zero lash.

When your working with new lifters,or lifters that have bled down,zero lash is hard to find,and the tension of the lifter plunger isn't very strong.It's hard to find that exact spot where all the play is removed from the valve train,but not compressing the lifter plunger.

Now that the lifters are pumped up,it may be a little easier to find.Double check them all,using the TDC #1,#6 method,it's quick and easy.

[TomatoRedGMC]

thanks, dude......I think i may not have been as carefull with the valves as i should of.....now i know for next time... i'll let you know......btw, your kids are precious!!!!

thanks,

Walt

[TomatoRedGMC]

well, just wanted to let you guys know, she's running good now....I was on a short hiatus from here, but i'm back....god my father in law to come and take a look.....heres what he found.

had 2 vacuum lines switched....strib advance was switched with the choke....that seemed to help...

and as i suspected, vavles were adjusted down WAY to far. what he did, which kinda scared me at first, was run the motor with the valve covers off, and loosen each rocker until it very lightly knocked....then snugged them from there......he said thats the old school way of doing it.....but it worked. I just couldn't get them right when it wasn't running for some reason, he said most likely the lifters are a worn. what do you think wyldman? I want to know what you think.
but, she's purs like a kitten now......took her for a short trip and ran like a top.....better than it ever has for that matter. :D

gonna change out the water pump this afternoon, and i should be good to go......I think thats what caused all this in the first place....after we ran it, its leaking like a siv.

thanks again to all for everything! I'll be around and try to help when i can.

Walt :burnout :cool:

[wyldman]

The lifters compress very easily,so it's not hard to tighten them down to much when trying to find zero lash.That's why it easier with the intake off,as you can see what your doing,and watch the lifter plunger for any signs of movement when tightening the rockers.

Doing it on the truck,with the engine running will work as well,but it is very messy if you don't have the oil deflectors that clip onto the rocker arms.

[ratlover]

or you can butcher a old valve cover instead of using the oil deflectors.....if you do it in a garage have the door open and a fan going and have lots of oil dry.

Sometimes you just gota back em off till they clack and retighten em as its running. I kinda find it impossible to get to 0 lash on a hydralic lifter if I dont have the intake off and i cant see the plunger starting to compress.

The adjusting nuts also seem to get lose and not stay put when you adjust em a few times. New nuts are cheap or you can whack the end with a mammer with it on a vice to squash up the threads on the end again. If you reused parts and it starts a ticking after awhile that would be the first thing I would look at.

[scfall]

:D Ratlover, Whats a mammer? I dont have one of them in the shop but would like to get one. LOL!!!


Scott:burnout

[wyldman]

If it whacks and squashes,then I want a mammer too.I can hang it right next to my wenches. :D

[ratlover]

:p :)

[TomatoRedGMC]

too funny!

I have a mammer.......its from 1920, and its been in the shop since i can rememer.......couple watchets, too!

got the water pump changed last night....was easier than i thought. stripped a bolt for the power steering pump bracked, so got to get that replaced now!!! :headwall at least these old chevys are pretty simplistic compared to newer stuff, and i have 3 blown motors from the past 5 years and parts for em all over the place!

[TomatoRedGMC]

Don't use a used water pump when re-mans are only 13 bucks, and OEM factory ones are 23. :headwall but you guys already new that, right? :geez

anyway, i need to get the fan and pulley studs from the old pump, and was wondering if anybody had sugestions on removing them.....i don't think it's going to be easy. I was thinking of doubleing up the nuts on the stud, and using the bottom bolt to back it out....sound like a good plan?

[wyldman]

Doubling up the nuts is the easiest way.The studs are too small to get anything else on there without doing damage.

[TomatoRedGMC]

Got her all done.

took off yesterday for a test run.....16 mile round trip. ran like a top, no coolant leak, no oil leaks, (except for the right valve cover, a little loose) and good power i thought for a 305 in a big heavy beast like that....... :burnout

thanks to all for the input and guideance for a young wannabe mechanic......it was a great learning experience......I'll do it again in a Heartbeat....but hopefully i won't have too :D

~Walt