Western V from a GMC to a Dodge

[hoot]

What's it gonna take to move my new Western 8.5 V from my 2001 GMC HD to my 2004 Cummins 4x4?

I know undercarraige but what about the wiring?

Cost?

Thanks

[T-Zab]

Hoot which 04 Cummins truck do you have? I dont think the front axle is rated for the 8.5 V. Especially if you have the extended cab with the cummins.
Todd

[Lawngodfather]

They don't have extened cabs anymore, it's tudoor or 4 door.

It will go without a hitch.

Will need light adabtor for the dodge.

[hoot]

It wasn't supposed to go on the GMC either.... but it fits just fine when you install it yourself :D

What is the light adapter? The whole harness?

[T-Zab]

Sorry your right LGF, I beleive Quad Cab is the proper term Dodge uses these days.
Todd

[Crash935]

Hoot, Need more info! Uni mount or ultra mount V? Is the 01 GM using relays or the isolation mudule for the headlights.

Heres the problem with the new dodges, western only makes a mount in the ultra mount, so if your current blade is a uni mount you have to install a ultra mount mount and use a conversion kit to hook up to the uni mount. Dodge also made changes in the electrical-headlight wiring so if your using a relay system you have to pretty much chance out the entire harness on the truck and either change the harness to the headlights on the plow and add a different harness for the plow controls on the plow, or change the headlights on the plow all together and still change the plow control harness. If your truck is using the isolation module you will only need to change the headlight harness and possible the isolation module itself (i think a 8436 harness kit is what you need).

hopefully this helps

[hoot]

Well Crash...

It's an UltraMount
http://www.uscom.com/%7Ehoot/cars/duramax/gmc/plow/images/DSCN4424.jpg

Isolation Module
http://www.uscom.com/%7Ehoot/cars/duramax/gmc/plow/thumbnails/DSCN4443.jpg


So I guess I need a mount for the Dodge undercarriage and possibly just a different harness for the isolation module.

Should I call Western to make sure?

[hoot]

I just got off the Western site and compared part numbers for th etwo trucks.

The only different ones were the mount and the headlight harness.

I'm not sure what the headlight harness entails.... if it's the whole isolater it might be quite expensive.

[Lawngodfather]

MInes heavier

[sonjaab]

HOOT........Ya might want to call Jerre Herre. Hes got a bunch
of used push bars. Maybe he can fix ya up or swap.

[hoot]

Here's the truck mines going on..

http://home.comcast.net/~hoot74/dodge/revtek/article/article_files/DSCN5655.jpg

[Crash935]

Hoot, i just checked the selection guide and you need a 8436 harness and 63883-1 mount, You will need to reuse the solenoid, battery cables and the main vehichle harness off the old truck.

The install isnt to bad, have done a bunch of them. You will have to remove the bumper and some drilling. While you have the bumper off do the wirng to the headlights, they are alot easier to get out with the bumper off.

If you have any more questions, youcan pm me and i will get you my nuumber .

[hoot]

Thanks Crash. How much do ya think it''ll cost in parts? I installed it on the GMC so doing the switch is no biggy

[Crash935]

At our shop a mount runs around $400 and i know its a couple hundred for the harness but dont know the exact price. I dont have to sell the stuff so i dont keep track of most of the prices, I just hang it.

[wyldman]

If your handy with electrical stuff,you should be able to rework the existing wiring harness to make it work.You can use the isolation module,or just redo your own with good relays.

[Crash935]

Chris, you cant really rework the isolation module and plugs when you go from a newer gm to a dodge because of the drls, the hi side switching and each headlight having its own circuit on the gms. You use a different iso box between the two.

[hoot]

Got my answer from a distributor..

Mike,
You are going to need the new mount which costs $382.43 and the isolation
module costs $253.22. The light adapters and module is different for the
chevy and the dodge. Thank you for the offer on the old equipment, ut we are
not interested.

[wyldman]

I'd just redo the harness,and use my own relays to make it work.It can be done if you compare the two schematics,and your vehicle wiring diagrams.

The plow wiring schematics should be available on the mfg's website.I can get you the vehicle wiring diagrams if you need them.

[CT18fireman]

Chris is right again.

Although I have not touched a Western isolation module I have to believe it is the same as a Fisher.

Basically it is a set of relays to switch power and lights over to the plow.

You could do the same thing that the manufacturers used to and use simple automotive relays to accomplish the same tasks.

Heck you could even do what I do and forget the relays. I go real old style and wire my headlights to a switch mounted in the dash. No relay problems then.

As far as the pump and control, the isolation module just connect the circuit. As long as you control has power and is sending signals to the pump it will work.

[hoot]

So I should be able to install the isolation module.... and play with the harness that goes to the headlights...

Use it as the control harness?

Or sell the isolation harness asy for a reasonable $$ and get the right one.


Any takers?

Yes it's exactly the same as the Fisher unit.

[CT18fireman]

The module should be the same then. You just need to get different adapters to make up the headligh connections. Or you could just splice the wires in like we used to do on all trucks.

[hoot]

GMC had 4 light system, my Dodge has 2 headlight system. Guess I'll have to do a little wiring research. It can get trickier than just splicing in can't it? Wiring systems on these newer trucks keep changing.

[wyldman]

It's not that hard,you just need to tap into the correct circuits to trigger the headlamps.

You should be able to figure it out from the wiring diagrams.

[CT18fireman]

As fancy as they get the principal is still the same. Find the right 12volt source and returns and you will be set. GMs four light and a Dodge two light (still four lights just two bulbs) doesn't matter.

[hoot]

Thanks... looks like that's what I'll do.

[wyldman]

Here is a great site for all kinds of wiring and relay tricks.

www.the12volt.com

[CT18fireman]

That site is also good for finding wiring infoe for radios, alarms, and remote starts. I use it often.

[Arc Burn]

Trust me,spend the $250 and get the correct Isolation Module,While Chris is right, it probably can be done,but,wiring completely around an Isolation Module is not how you want to spend your free time,there's no way it's worth the time,I've seen/installed tons of these Modules and it would be a splicing nightmare(yes,i realize some will disagree) do yourself a favor and get the right parts,simply plug them in and go on your way.Just my 2 cents

[wyldman]

Originally posted by Arc Burn
Trust me,spend the $250 and get the correct Isolation Module,While Chris is right, it probably can be done,but,wiring completely around an Isolation Module is not how you want to spend your free time,there's no way it's worth the time,I've seen/installed tons of these Modules and it would be a splicing nightmare(yes,i realize some will disagree) do yourself a favor and get the right parts,simply plug them in and go on your way.Just my 2 cents

Sure Don,come in here and argue with me. ;)

Your probably right,just buy the kit and plug it in.

I was just trying to save him a few bucks,as the relay deal could be done for less than $30 or so,as well as some spare time. :D

[Arc Burn]

LOL!sorry:p ,I know it's something you could throw together in no time,but for the average plow owner it's gonna be more confusing and time consuming than it's worth,not to mention if not done correctly you could be opening a serious can of worms.

[hoot]

The lighting harness plugs into the isolation module. Don't you think they make it so all they do is change out the light harness only? It would be cheaper to manufacture it that way.

[wyldman]

The isolation module itself is different internally between the two trucks.

[hoot]

Then I should be able to VOM the wires and see what comes on and off.

Or somebody smart could send me perfect instructions :grinz

[wyldman]

Originally posted by hoot
Then I should be able to VOM the wires and see what comes on and off.

Or somebody smart could send me perfect instructions :grinz

Give me some time,I'll see if I can draw something up for ya. :D

[Crash935]

guys,

i'm with don (arc burn) spend the money and buy the right harness and iso module. Gm uses a HB3 & HB4 bulb and while dodge uses a HB5 bulb so now you have to change plug ends, Gm has DRL's on a seperate curcuit, where do you pick up for that and still switch to the plow, one truck uses hi side switching while the other uses low side switching so now you have to flip the relays, Gm used 6 relays, dodge uses 4 with diodes inline to keep from back feeding.....

is it worth the time to try and figure all of this out when western/fisher has all ready done the work and when it doent work who is going to figure out why with out charging a fortune.

[hoot]

Here's what Western told me...

Dear Michael:

Thank you for contacting Western.

If you have the isolation module already set up on the plow side, you would better off purchasing the 8436 for the Dodge due to the fact that the headlamp operating systems of those two trucks are different and require different modules and #3 & 4 harness. You would end up with a spare #2 harness but the cost of purchasing the 26400 module, 26354 #3 harness and 26349 #4 harness would be approximately $305.00.



Sincerely,
Customer Service

[Crash935]

Hoot, so what are you going to do, going to make it easier to buy the right stuff...

[hoot]

Yea I believe so.

If only I could get a few bucks back for the GM Isolator and frame mount.

Only used one season .... no commercial, maybe 4 or 5 snows.

Anybody interested?

I'll take $300 for all or best offer

[Lawngodfather]

ebay it

[Crash935]

Post it on the wanted for sale thread,

Do you still have the receit for the gm parts? Some of theose parts will only fit up to a certain year. If you have the part numbers i vcan tell you what the will fit.

[hoot]

mount.. 67981-2
All GM 2001 and up HD pickups.

isolation system 8437 HB3/HB4 headlamps

[Crash935]

That mount will fit all GM 2500hd's without any modifications,

the harness will fit up to a 2002 gm 1500 or 2500,

shouldnt have to hard of a time selling both together.

[hoot]

Thanks.... I'll ebay them

[wyldman]

Well I haven't had the time to draw anything up yet,as it's not a simple deal.If you do want to,I have most of the wiring stuff you'll need to do it.

These two guys are install experts,and your probably best to take their advice.If you can Ebay your existing stuff to help ease the cost,then even better.

[hoot]

Thanks wyldman, I do appreciate your advice.

[hoot]

And I appreciate everyone elses advice...

[Arc Burn]

Were abouts you located?I deal primarily Fisher so the mounts are of no use to me but i can get you the electrical stuff you need and swing a deal there if your interested.

[hoot]

I'm in SE PA right where I-95 goes into Delaware.

I still need to work out some details before I swing any deals.

Will the 8436 module kit for the Dodge give me everything in this picture (not the metal) as far as wiring is concerned? Relay and battery cables?

Let me know what you want for an exchange.

I will be in Cornwall Bridge CT on the 25 if that's anywhere near you?

Mike

[hoot]

Here's what I got...


http://home.comcast.net/~hoot74/dmax/plowparts/mount-harness.jpg

[Arc Burn]

The module kit should contain the relay and battery cables,the light kit is a seperate kit,in your earlier post you listed specific part numbers for seperate parts as oppossed to a kit.You will drive well within 1 hr south of me if you goto CT.

[Crash935]

Hoot, You will need to keep you battery cables, motor solenoid and the main vehichle harness (thats the one thats in port #1 on the iso module).

You will get a new lighting control harness (cable #2), vehicle light harness' (#3 &4) and a new iso module.


Hey don, did you see that chris called us experts, boy do we have him fooled.. thanks chris, but when it comes to the vehicle side, your the man.

[hoot]

Originally posted by Crash935
Hoot, You will need to keep you battery cables, motor solenoid and the main vehichle harness (thats the one thats in port #1 on the iso module).

You will get a new lighting control harness (cable #2), vehicle light harness' (#3 &4) and a new iso module.


Hey don, did you see that chris called us experts, boy do we have him fooled.. thanks chris, but when it comes to the vehicle side, your the man.

That's what I was thinking. I figured the heavy part of the harness with the relay was seperate.

I would have been in trouble if I ebay'd all of it.

[Joey D]

If you are trying to do this on the cheap, why not wire them to come on from a switch. A nice lighted switch a HD relay and tap the running lights and it's done.

[hoot]

How are you Joey. Nice talking to you out of the Duke realm.

You have a point but the nice thing about the isolator module is you don't do anything but plug the plow in and go. I like the factory stuff. you are right though. A simple relay setup and I would have total control and even be able to have all lights on at once.

Are you coming to the NE GTG? I'll be there. Hope that doesn't scare you away :drinkup

[Arc Burn]

Hang ten hoot,i'll have some numbers for you tomorrow and we can go from there.

[Joey D]

Originally posted by hoot
How are you Joey. Nice talking to you out of the Duke realm.

You have a point but the nice thing about the isolator module is you don't do anything but plug the plow in and go. I like the factory stuff. you are right though. A simple relay setup and I would have total control and even be able to have all lights on at once.

Are you coming to the NE GTG? I'll be there. Hope that doesn't scare you away :drinkup
It would be easy to keep it a plug in and work type of deal, the added step would be a switch for the lights. Using the connector off the GM so the plow still just plugs in. This way here the money laid out is low and it still plugs in in a hurry. The switch would need to be three position off low and high beams.

I should be there for saturday, work is busy but trying to make the time available. You up for the day or weekend?
Duke is funny to read and bicker with. He has been brouchure quoteing lately on the hyped up 05 Ford's. I was busting his nuts as that was one of his gripes with you.

[Arc Burn]

Originally posted by Joey D
It would be easy to keep it a plug in and work type of deal, the added step would be a switch for the lights. Using the connector off the GM so the plow still just plugs in. This way here the money laid out is low and it still plugs in in a hurry. The switch would need to be three position off low and high beams.


Thats actually what the whole discussion has been here and there is a LOT more involved in getting around an isolation module than simply adding a switch.I think Chris is pondering on it but has himself admitted it's a little more complicated than some think.

[Joey D]

My idea was to not use the module and just power the lights thru a switch with a HD relay. It is very easy to do. It would be set up like the older systems where the plow lights are controlled by a switch and not by the factory wiring.
The plug that hangs out of the grill to plug into the plow would have to be wired to the new powered wiring for the lights. Maybe I am not explaining it right but it would be very easy to do and cheap to boot. That was what I was getting at.

[Arc Burn]

Not to start an argument but it's no were near that easy,you can't wire around the light harness's of an isolation module and still make the controll harness work,i've installed tons of these,it just doesn't work that way.

[hoot]

Latest update...


Michael,
The 8436 kit only comes with the module the two light adapters and the plug
#2 for the lights. You will need to take all the other wiring and the
receivers off of the other truck. The mount kit does not come with the
receivers.


Also Arc Burn has helped me with this info offline.

Great people in the plow business!

[Joey D]

Originally posted by Arc Burn
Not to start an argument but it's no were near that easy,you can't wire around the light harness's of an isolation module and still make the controll harness work,i've installed tons of these,it just doesn't work that way.

Maybe it's like welding, easy for some not for others. I see it working easy enough.

[wyldman]

It can be done Don,it's not that hard to bypass the iso module,even on the control side.You have to rework the power feed for the control,as it goes through the box,but you just need to snip two wires at the plug,and connect them together.I usually directly ground the solenoid to bypass any diodes in the ground side too.

While the iso modules are pretty good,it's a heck of a lot of crazy wiring to make it all work.If you have a bad ground connection in the grille connectors,the the lights start switching,and you cannot control the plow as it thinks it's not connected.I realize the plow mfg's must do all this to keep the vehicle headlamp electrical functions exactly as they came from the factory to meet DOT specs,and retain the warranty.

It can drive you nuts trying to diagnose it all in the middle of a storm,and it always happens,as usually someone butchered the wiring during the install.

I still don't understand why they don't get the headlamp power from the battery,instead of running it through the headlamp switch.I like it better that way as you don't get as much voltage drop at the headlamps,and better light output.

We don't do many new plow installs,but we do a lot of transfer\conversions.9 times out of ten,I make my own relay setup,which gets the headlamp power from the battery for both the plow lamps,and the truck headlamps,so they both work better.It can be switched manually via a switch,or use the ground through the grille connector to control it.With the addition of one more relay,you can have factory style DRL's (modulated high beam),or regular low beams,depending on how it's wired.You can also choose to run both plow and truck headlamps at the same time.This setup puts near zero load on the headlamp switch\wiring,and isolates it from the rest of the electrical system.It's a little different for every truck,but it can always be made to work.

The other thing I like about it,is if a relay fails,you can replace just the one,not the whole iso box.it also makes transfers a breeze,as you just have to reconfigure the relays you have,not buy a new box and harness for the new truck.

I guess I'm old school,but at least I know it works.I have had virtually no problems with any of my setups,except for the odd relay failure.It's such a simple setup,that most guys can easily swap a few relays and get it up and working again,right on site,in no time flat.

I still am amazed at the great members we have on this site,who bend over backwards to help guys out.Not many guys will do that nowadays.Jerre,Arc,Crash,Garagekeeper,etc are great guys who go the extra mile to help people out,who aren't even their customers.Lets try and return the favour,and if you ever need something,give these guys a ring first. :D

[hoot]

I installed my MVP on my 04 Dodge today with the new iso module and wiring.

You have to figure out what type of wiring your truck has. Looking at the wiring diagram it looks like mine is HB-5 because the common wire is in the center of the headlight plug.

I got problems. Only one headlight lights.

They also give you a small configuration plug that has to be wired for either common = neg or common = positive,

It says if you're not sure try neg first. I did. I hear some clicking but no good.. still only one light. So I flip the wire in the config plug like the directions say and still no light.

Right now I'm at a loss what to do.

[Arc Burn]

Check your headlight bezel to see if you have HB1's or HB5's,then recheck your wires that you configured into the plug ends,i'm having a mental block but i believe you need a negative common on the configuration plug.Be sure all the terminals "locked" into place,especially the configuration plug,sometimes they get pushed out when you plug them in,hang in there,don't be discouraged cause there's nothing wrong,this is a simple wiring problem.I'll be in the shop tomorrow assembling plows if you need help,i'll walk you thru it,(845)676-3136,Don

[hoot]

You guys are amazing. Tommorrow I'll be trouble shooting.

Thanks Don

[T-Zab]

Good point Wyldman on were to do your shopping. Droped a couple bucks at Garagekeepers place this month. I will allways buy from the "little guy" as long as prices are not to far out of line.
Service with a smile, plus I get to check out a poly edge when it snows. Actually see it in action. Bet Angelo's or CPW cant offer that. John's a great guy and he knows his stuff !
Todd

[Crash935]

If you hear it clicking, your on the right configuration. I have run into a couple of the plugs (black in color ) that plug into the factory side harness where one of the tabs inside of the plug was bent over and not making contact, might need to unplug them and give tham a look.

[hoot]

Yoo're right about the clicking. I got it working. I think it was only a bad connection. I unplugged and replugged everything.... it clicked a bit and walla... all headlights.

Thanks again fellows!.

[4evergreenlawns]

Gald to here you got it all working. I will do my change over Early next week taking the Vof the F-450 and puting on the 01 2500HD. I will do allthe work at my plow dealer shop as he had offer to help me out seeing how I bought two 810's and a Proflo2 from him this season. Beside he will have to pull the wire of the F-450 while doing the 810 install so I might as well be there to watch the show.

I'll get some picture once it as all said and done.

[hoot]

Originally posted by 4evergreenlawns
Gald to here you got it all working. I will do my change over Early next week taking the Vof the F-450 and puting on the 01 2500HD. I will do allthe work at my plow dealer shop as he had offer to help me out seeing how I bought two 810's and a Proflo2 from him this season. Beside he will have to pull the wire of the F-450 while doing the 810 install so I might as well be there to watch the show.

I'll get some picture once it as all said and done.

Here's all the pics from my GMC HD install. A few of the last ones show where some components were under the hood..

http://www.uscom.com/%7Ehoot/cars/duramax/gmc/plow

[sonjaab]

ARC and Wildman............You are correct. AGAIN!

My 01 to 04 GM Western wiring swap the dealer replaced the light harness, the relays with a iso. module and new plow lights.
He sez its all required on the 04 truck............

The push bar bolted right on tho!

Total cost $733 bucks.............

Sound about right ? You guys are right about "cobbing" the old harness to the new truck.

If I wasn't under the weather after my operation I could of done it and saved a few bucks...........

We had a few inches of white gold here Monday ! So I am under the gun to be ready to plow!.................geo

[PROMOWER]

Don't forget the IM controls the 4 way, turn signal, running lights, and DRL. Wiring without the module would cause someone to have to wire all these lights. Trust me, I've fixed more than my fair share of butchered harness that someone was trying to save a buck. Usually broke right in the middle of a snow storm. Well, then again, thats usually when you use your plow, isn't it!!!:D

[tlc]

Plow Pictures

[4evergreenlawns]

That dually has BLIZZARD 810 written all over it.