John Allins seminars

[business]

This year, like the past 3 years, John Allins, Owner of SMG offers seminars in Canada like in the US on Snow Management. It cost $145 US to attend. Is it worth going??? Expensive for one day! Is it a must to attend or it's crappy? Anyone been there? If yes, are you getting any books?
http://www.snowmanagementseminars.com

[Pickering Snow]

Buss

I think if i was you personally i would keep your money safe in the bank you may need it if he comes to your town:D

[Mick]

Fred, well put. Business, I would say it depends on whether you want to grow (from your profile, it appears you are a relatively small company now). If you're looking for immediate return on your investment in the seminar, then you'll be disappointed. If you're looking at long-term, then I'd say you'll benefit. Just remember that John is a businessman, not a snow plower.

What you might do is get his book for now (less money), then decide whether you want to put out that much for seminar.

I'm not especially shilling for John. I've not gotten his book or attended his seminars. But I'm ok staying the size I am. I don't hire employees or subs.

[JD PLOWER]

Ditto on Micks post.

[sonjaab]

Business...........There is going to be a salt/deicing seminar near you in Ajax Ont. Sept 9.

Prob. lots of info./networking/etc. that would help ya out.
FREE too!
A great excuse for a meet and greet with fellow "plowheads"

There is a post in the plowing discussion area here at SPC.
http://www.srobbins@innovativecompany.com
is a link to them ! Call 1 800 387 5777

Another fun time is in Oct. in Poughkeepsie NY at John Parkers
place

[SnoJob67]

In my experience, John's seminar(s) are worth every penny you spend.

There is no better way to shorten your learning curve than educating yourself. John Allin's seminars are just one of the many tools available to learn from and to shorten the learning curve.

I know there were guys in attendance that were in their first year of plowing and those that had been in the biz as long as John Allin himself. I think everyone walked away with their money's worth from talking with other seminar attendees. There was an exception....a guy who was in his second or third year of business that THOUGHT he knew more than John, but you will always have that.

The fact John is a businessman does not mean he does not offer a valuable service. Otherwise, he would not make enough money to justify traveling all over and take time away from his core business....his own snow removal biz. If you can't learn from a guy that has done over $50,000,000 of snow removal in a year, who can you learn from?

[digger242j]

If you can't learn from a guy that has done over $50,000,000 of snow removal in a year, who can you learn from?

Ahh...but Confucius say, "The wisest teacher is one who does not teach pupil everything *he* knows...".

Actually I didn't know JAA was doing seminars until I saw this thread. I bought his book and thought it was ok, but he sure wasn't giving away any trade secrets. I wonder how much of what he *really* knows he's passing along in the seminars? I'd have to bet it's not enough to hurt his own bottom line...

[Pelican]

SnoJob, Welcome to Let'sTalkSnow!:drinkup

You don't happen to be associated with SMG, do you?

[Lawngodfather]

What you will learn is what you will get out of it.

If you know nothing, you will definately learn something.

If you "know" alot, then it might spark something you haven't thought of.

Whether it is worth the money or not is up to you.

[SnoJob67]

Pelican-

Thanks for the welcome. You must be getting slow in your old age because I have been here since the development of the site. :D

I am one of the snow fairies that John Allin has sent to your town to spread magic dust and take all of your snow removal accounts away magically so he can rule the world and enact his evil snow removal plan.

On a more serious note, the only association I have with SMG is that we do some snow removal for them. I have nothing to gain or lose from endorsing John Allin. He probably would not even recognize my (real or screen) name if you mention it to him. I think there may be some value from the opinion of someone who actually spent the money and attended his seminar. That is my only reason for posting. By the way, although I am John Allin's evil cronie, I still have to pay full price.

:p

[digger242j]

By the way, although I am John Allin's evil cronie, I still have to pay full price.

See, there's a reason he's as successful as he is. But did he teach that in the seminar? :)

[John P]

i dont mean to be the instigater here but i only have 1 question concerning smg. How is it that a company of porported size of 50mill and that number seems to inflate by the minute is unable to pay all of its subs and yet claims to be a very well run organization.hmm it really doesnt matter to me but i feel bad for the little guy he tends to screww on a regular basis.some he pays and some he doesnt

[Pelican]

Things that make you go hmmmmm......

[SnoJob67]

Count me as one of the subs that did get paid....Have alot of people complained about not getting paid from SMG? My experience has been good, but that is not to say it is impossible.:beatsme

[Alan]

There was a thread last spring about this very issue. An SMG employee sent me repeated emails and made mutterings about slander and libel, et al. but never did offer the proof he had that the thread starter was a liar.

http://www.snowplowing-contractors.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2929&highlight=snow+management+group

[SnoJob67]

I know we are way off topic here, but I did want to add one of my long and rambling posts. If that type offends you, accept my apology.

Just pure speculation here, but I would guess that SMG and even John Allin himself realize that subcontractors are their lifeblood. Some people are able to work within the parameters of their contract and some are not. I have had problems with late payment. I accept full responsibility for this due to errors on my part. SMG and their staff have been nothing but gracious to me for the most part, and like in many relationships, there have been a couple of tense moments.

SMG has been accused of accepting lowball bidders. For starters, the contract we have allows that the customer chooses the provider, not SMG. We don't work for peanuts and we certainly don't ask our subs to work for nothing. If your market is flooded with lowballers, there may be a better chance that is who ends up getting the job???

Keep in mind, there are many sides to any story. I am sure there are others that have had diffuculty just as there are obviously many satisfied subs they maintain from season to season. SMG has thousands of subcontractors that work for them. Ocassionally, there are going to be bumps in the road. Keep in mind that there is a chain going from subcontractor to SMG to end customer. Business between two parties can be difficult enough. Now imagine business between three parties.

Also, SMG does not actually make the payout for the contract we have. Our check comes directly from the customer after SMG has approved our invoices and done the appropriate audits.

I can tell you from experience, working for any national company is not for the faint of heart. If all "i's" are not dotted and all "t's" crossed, you may have some surprises. Sometimes human error comes into play. When money is involved, people become much less patient.
:argue

[Lawngodfather]

Let's not get this into a SMG/John Allen bashing thread...


The man knows how to do something right.

[John Banks]

Yes, it was my thread referenced in the link above. And yes, SMG still owes me money and it's now September! It's been one story after another. Now they've brought in this Bob Cohen supposedly becuase what I was told from an SMG employee is that "they are having cash flow problems and can not pay their subs even if they wanted to."

[Lawn Lad]

Regardless what one things of SMG/JAA, the question was about the seminar. I believe any opportunity for continuing education is very important. Breaking away from your daily activities and challenging your brain with a few new ideas is extremely beneficial. I would challenge anyone to attend the same/similar seminar three years in a row and tell me if they aren't still coming away with something valuable after each time they hear the seminar. And since much of the learning goes on during break sessions/before and after the seminar - then it's a no brainer.

For the one truck company who wants to grow it helps to be exposed to different concepts - it gets the "blinders" off sooner than if you have to learn all new information through the school of hard knocks. For the more experienced operator the seminars will still offer some insight into particular questions/problems you may be experiencing. One simple idea that might save you $1,000 or $5,000 once implemented sounds like a good return on your time/money for the one day spent.

[CT18fireman]

Don't think that John is going to teach you to be him at the seminars. Believe it or not big companies do not like competition. He gets all his contracts because he is the biggest. Kind of why you don't see "Ma and Pas Harware" next to Home Depot. The big guy gets the deals.

Now there may be some very successful plowers on this site. However we are all small potatos compared to SMG. I don't think John is looking for you to become a competitor, he is looking to make money another way.

Be happy where you are. Grow as you can if you want to. Don't fall for a get rich quick idea.

[business]

Just to let you know, I will attend his seminar in Toronto, Canada.
Some of you guys are saying don't waste your money and others are saying go for it. Last year was my first year in snow business, I only had one tractor blower. This year I have 2 tractor-blowers and 2 pick-up trucks with plows. 3 new units for this coming season. I am attending this course to learn a couple tricks of the trade, I do not want to crash (Chapter 11!). Anything I can learn from him will be better than nothing at all. Around here, the snowplowers are afraid to talk to me. They don't talk to competitors. Even if I learn 4 or 5 things from him, it will help me out! After the John's course, I will gladly post the outcome of his seminars and let you know if it's worth it!:canada

[Mick]

Originally posted by business
Even if I learn 4 or 5 things from him, it will help me out! After the John's course, I will gladly post the outcome of his seminars and let you know if it's worth it!:canada

Sounds fair to me.

[business]

Ok, it wasn't bad. He explained himself on the current situation of his company, he says his growth rate was 50% per year and says he grew way too fast and ggot short on cash for a while. He now sets the growth factor at 25% per year now. He is now attacking the Canadian market!! Bad for me!:headwall

He mostly spoke about all the snow management topics but was really short on all subjects. Spoke a lot about SIMA and especially spoke a lot about his book and his $280 CD software where he showed a lot of excel spreadsheets. He likes to show his sponsors and his own goodies. Spent at least an hour talking about his company. I now know how he operates!

All day he related about his own experience, how he did things in the past and today. But still, I found his seminar to be short, started at 08h00 AM, lunch by 11h45, re-start by 1h00 PM and done by 3h00 PM. Although I've learned things, I feel this seminar was not complete. I wanted to know so much more..... and he provided so little. Not enough to me for $145 US, hope this will help you guys! :canada