Personal Protection

[EZSnow]

Given the hours we generally keep, (dark) do any of you carry one form or another of 'personal protection'? So far I just keep a buck knife in my door pocket, but as MN finally wised up and passed 'shall issue' conceal and carry, I think I'm going to get a permit to carry.
That, and superdawg will give out a nasty bark on command- almost a deterrent- just before she licks someone to death!!

At any rate- has anyone come upon a threatening situation while plowing? A situation in which you had to defend yourself? How did or would you solve this problem?

[wyldman]

We are not allowed to carry guns here,so that is out of the question.

Usually my truck is enough protection for me.A big truck with a blade hanging off of it scares most people off,especially with a nut like me behind the wheel.

I have only had a few situations where I had to get out of the truck,and my big 5D Maglite did the trick.Not that I had to use it,but I guess they assumed I would.It was either that,or the "wired" look i get when I've been out for 30 hours and drank 40 cups of coffee. :D

[drobson]

I have a LTC, but rarely do when I'm plowing. Same as wyldman, I keep a maglite, although have never needed to use it. Well, except for it's main function as a flashlite.

[Snowboy]

Originally posted by wyldman
We are not allowed to carry guns here,so that is out of the question.

Chris,

Maybe if you plowed in Toronot or the Dixie Bloor area of Mississauga you would think about getting a gun. Brampton is pretty scarry at night as well. I was headed to owen sound 3 weeks ago and i went to P/U a friend at 4am and i saw a bunch of indian people sitting on the sidewalk I was like what the hell is that. :zoinks

They were wating for the bus i think but the bus doesnt come until 7am or so i am sure..

Weird man weird....

[John Banks]

I typically carry no matter where I am going or what I am doing. I know that some of you would not agree with this, but you never know.

An officer once told me that "you're better off having it and never needing it, than needing it and not having it"
I have had more classroom and range time than most law enforcement officers, have passed multiple gov't agency exams and am blue card certified.

The choices are usually one of my Glock 27s and perhaps a Taurus .38 CIA as a backup. All of my guns are DAO, not only for safety, but also for consistent trigger pull regardless if it's the first or last round.

[cardoctor]

sig p226 stainless(dont want it rusting) 9mm
hollow points

john

[River Hill]

I would love to carry, but I live in the great state of MD. I once read "It's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."

[EZSnow]

John Banks- that's a great quote!
As I pursue my CCW permit, I run across many people who label it paranoia or whatever- That quote is good 'ammo' in that situation!

Not to mention how many other areas of life it may apply to!

My wife is a medical examiner for insurance companies. (not dead people) She takes blood and urine samples, physical measurements, medical questionnaires, etc... but she is always in strange places with strange people. Sometimes alone with other men- whom I DON"T TRUST. Anyway- gonna get her a permit and a piece, too.

[Mick]

Reading about all these guns makes me glad I live where I do. Most dangerous thing I'm likely to encounter would be a bear and I've never had one of those run up to me yet.

I guess you could carry a gun for the turkeys that are often crossing the road around here and make you stop till they all get across. Pretty common to see a flock of a hundred or more.

[John Banks]

Cardoctor, I load the mags with fragmentation rounds. Better I feel, especially with no ricochet god forbid I ever need to use it. They are more expensive but worth it.

The Sig is definately nice. I did my undergrad in New Hampshire but never made it to Sigarms. One day though I will make it there. How do you like the 9mm? My Glock 27s are .40, which hit harder than the 9mm but not as hot as a 10mm.

[Brian Simmons]

Mick i'm with you as i only live about 15 minutes from you. I have all of these stupid turkeys all over my front lawn. Its a little irritating when you want to sleep in and all you hear is gobbling. Also my Jack Russell Terrier is terrified of them and will not go out. Those birds can be mean when they want to .

[cardoctor]

Originally posted by John Banks
Cardoctor, I load the mags with fragmentation rounds. Better I feel, especially with no ricochet god forbid I ever need to use it. They are more expensive but worth it.

The Sig is definately nice. I did my undergrad in New Hampshire but never made it to Sigarms. One day though I will make it there. How do you like the 9mm? My Glock 27s are .40, which hit harder than the 9mm but not as hot as a 10mm.

had a ruger 9mm wasnt very accurate
demo a SIG what a difference
alse own a .380 sig p230
carry it in a fanny pack
both are dbl action de**** only
dont want to have to worry if the saftey is on or not
i just bought a 30 rnd clip for the 9mm
hangs out the gun about 6" you should see the looks i get at the range
john

[phillyplowking1]

Glock 27 .40 cal with hollows.:eek:

[John Banks]

It's always nice to be able to get pre-ban clips for your toys.

I carry the legal 10 rounds, with 9 in the mag and 1 round always chambered and ready to go. Usually carry a backup mag too.

I know what you're saying about the safety, that's the nice thing about the Glock, with it being striker fire. A friend carries a 1911 but never ****ed and locked! I told him he was crazy, but he is concerned about the safety.

I tend to use the fanny pack in the summer months, but wear one of a few DeSantis strong-side OWB holsters whenever possible.

[Roger Dodger]

Originally posted by cardoctor
sig p226 stainless(dont want it rusting) 9mm
hollow points
Browning Hi-power 9mm & a state permit, here.


Plowtech, I will gladly visit your abode with my 835 Ulti-mag and dispatch those pests for you. You are welcome to the meat as well. I'll keep the tail fan and the beards!;)

[Brian Simmons]

come on up my wife would love you for it.

[handyhaver]

Astra 9MM 17 in the clip, one up the pipe. I too am lic. to carry.
My summer gun is a 5 shot snub .38cal. Nice & light & very easy to conceal.

I carry mostly for my full time work, alot of it in the city.

All of my plowing is done on the main line. Although I don't think I'll ever need it plowing, one of them is always in the truck.

:D :D

Mark

[Adams Plowing]

Ruger p89 And permit with a few 15 rd mags.

[John Banks]

I know that New York issues permits by county and they are not transferrable between counties. In other words if I have a permit to carry in Westchester, then unless I obtain another permit I can not carry in Putnam county, etc.

How is it where you guys are?

I have a permit to carry in 22 states and hopefully that will increase at some point.

Does anyone else carry out of state?

[JohnnyU]

I can't carry a handgun, but don't really have the need to. I haven't had a problem or felt uncomfortable yet, but between my 5-D MAG light, a few Gerbers and a screwdriver, plus like Crhis said, the intimidation of the truck, I'm ok, lol.

Plus, I am mostly in upscale neighborhoods and well-lit and patrolled business areas.

[PineIsland]

Glock IWB, anytime I am dressed.

G29, 10 mm standard,


G 27 when I want to go smaller, (never happens but I love the gun).
G 23 is a safe queen, will soon be replaced with a G 20 10 mm.

[Pelican]

Originally posted by John Banks
I know that New York issues permits by county and they are not transferrable between counties. In other words if I have a permit to carry in Westchester, then unless I obtain another permit I can not carry in Putnam county, etc.


Does anyone else carry out of state?

Your info is incorrect. NY permits are issued at the County level, true, but they are valid anywhere in NY except within NYC limits.

I've got NY, Conn. and Pa. permits, as I travel to those states frequently.

Cardoctor, my Pa. permit says not valid in Philly, are you issued City permits there?

My Fall/Winter/Spring carry is a Para Ordinance 1911 in condition 1. Very accurate and effective round. In the summer I switch to the Colt Government .380, a bit easier to conceal in light clothing and operates in the same manner.

When I began carrying a number of years ago, my wife questioned why I needed to carry when we're "Only going to the store". My reply is that if I knew when and where I would have the need, I'd just avoid the time and location. I carry about 95% of the time.

If any of you responding here are not members of the NRA, you ought to consider joining. It's the premier organization dedicated to preserving the Second Amendment, if you want to retain your rights, they can use your support.:usa

[handyhaver]

Pelican,

My PA permit has no city limitations. Good State wide.

Maybe cause you are a non-resident??

I didn't know you could get a PA permit living out of State.

We have to get ours renewed every 5 yrs.

It should be good nation wide if you ask me. I have traveled over State lines while working and go through the trouble of unloading and seperating amo from gun. Just my luck to get pulled over and have to deal with that, not good.

Mark

[scfall]

S & W CS-40 IWB 75% of the time or S & W 66-1 357mag the rest of the time. I had a bad experience a few years back so now I carry most of the time. 17 yrs. with a ccw.

Scott:burnout

[PineIsland]

What the heck, we post pics of everything else....

[Pelican]

There are a number of states that offer reciprocating permits, in other words, Pa. and another State make an agreement to homor each others permits.

Unfortunately, NY doesn't participate, but a few states do honor our permits anyway. There's a lot more cooperation within the southern states. I believe that Pa. does participate with some. I've got a link stored somewhere I'll look for later tonight that lists them.

Be careful in transporting a handgun, as some states do not even allow possesion without licensing. NJ doesn't allow their citizens to carry except to the range and back, and then in the trunk as you describe. You could get locked up there if discovered with a handgun.

[River Hill]

You guys are making me want to me up north. I would love to bring my Kimber's out of the safe.

[W-n-K Landscaping]

I'm kinda glad to see this thread. I have been considering getting my permit for some time now, and I have decided to get one for me and my wife. We both love to go to the range and have some fun on a regular basis(time permiting) and we have both talked about getting our permits for a while now. Especially since I have a reloading station and plan on starting to reload my own soon.

That being said- while plowing there has not been many times where I have wanted one. However since I am a contractor and some of my work is definitely in some shady areas I have wanted one for that many times. I have also ran into several situations with the rescue or ambulance where I would have felt more comfortable carrying. When your 6'4" and 225lbs you tend to get picked to either go in with or follow the police in certain situations- one that comes to mind was a call where someone was threatening suicide with a knife- the toug part on this one was that her 1 yr old daughter was locked in the room with her!! I had to go in with the cop to retrieve the child, and then to restrain the patient after she was disarmed.

All this fun and I live in the country!!! Sometimes being in the country can be worse than the city- I think the differences are that country folk tend to be more crazier and sometimes better armed, but the city is more concentrated so you hear about more things more often.

I like to see what everybody is carrying- this will help in my decision on what to buy. In the mean time I will continue to carry my mag lite and the assorted knives I always have with me, and hope that I will neve have to use them.

Bill

[labsnducks]

Gents, First off the correct term is magazine not "clip" unless you are referring to an M-1 Garand, sks, or the 1903 A-3 ect...

Well I carry a Sig P220 45ACP with multiple magazines loaded with hydra-shok and cor-bon both at 230gr. I also have a CCW permit and carry every day for work. i also carry a sig p226 as a back-up

cardoctor I see that you carry the sig p230 .380, I also have one of these and though it is very accurate, the stopping power is not there, especially when you are using this for self defense while out plowing snow, most of the people that you will encounter will have thick winter coats on which will have a great reduction in the penetration of this round the .380 [9mm Kurtz (small)] is a German round that was developed for very close defense and as a back-up round.

EZsnow I commend you on getting your wife a CCW permit, but first Please make sure that she not only knows how to use it but will USE it in a life or death situation, I belive that it is in our 2nd amemdment right to "keep and bear arms" but more people are killed with there own weapons then not. I am not saying not to, just make sure that she is ready. My wife is a deadly shot and I make her practice often. She does not carry it but she has it available at home so I know that when I'm not there (which is often) my family is safe. And yes it is in a "fast open" safe.

John Banks, Those fragmentation rounds that you carry, ditch um they are ment to use if you are shooting in an apartment or a townhouse and dont want the round to go through the wall, i guess there ok to carry for the summer months, but if the person has a coat on the round is more or less useless, I've seen 9mm hollow points that was shot into a leather coat and just "bounced" off of the person. then a quick recovery with an ABOVE the jacket shot stopped him cold.

I agree with pelican join the NRA they have a wealth of knowledge.

I'm sorry that this reply was so long. so i'll stop now

Mike

[jbutch83]

Glock 17, with all the magazines and ammo that I want. It helps being on the SWAT team, I get all the extra toys, Colt AR 15, Remington 700 .308, but only carry the Glock when plowing.

John

[razor]

I carry a flame thrower. If I run out of salt it also melts the snow and ice right down to the pavement.

Ray

[cat320]

I keep my HK 9mm in the safe a hammer ,pipe or shovel will do just a much damage unless the other person has the gun lol

[cardoctor]

mike
the .380 is for the warm weather kind of embarrassing walking around the mallwith a tank top and a shoulder holster. lol

the 9mm with hollow points is for the winter
i agree that in the winter you need more penetration.
my wife also has a permit not that she ever carries
but if she ever feels threaten in the house i just want to be covered
john
gun dont kill people-people kill people

[flatbed]

thought the ol ruger blackhawk .44 mag was nice.............till i saw this one.........S & W .50 cal mag............I want one...........bad!!!!!!!!!

[W-n-K Landscaping]

Ok, now I'm drooling!! Good thing it looks like it's stainless!! Wouldn't want to cause any rust!! LOL!!

I have always been into big calibers, especially rifles, but the one pistol I will eventually own is the Desert Eagle 50cal!! That gun is awesome!! This gun might be another one to add to my list though- it looks plain mean!! Wonder how your arm would feel after firing a box of rounds at the range with that thing!! LOL!!

Bill

[flatbed]

it's sweet...dbl action,5 shot....the world most powerful handgun....checked it out on the S &W web site.......cost all most a grand.......

[phillyplowking1]

Cardoctor, my Pa. permit says not valid in Philly, are you issued City permits there?
For me I had to summit the permit to the Philadelphia Police Chief.I also have no limitation state wide.

[John Banks]

Pelican, thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it. And yes reciprocity is a great thing between states.

Labsnducks, thanks for your real world situation. I previously loaded with Federal Hydra-Shock JHPs, so perhaps I'll go back to those for the winter months.

[Progrounds]

We provide a lot of services in the City of Detroit, and that means I'm typically carrying the pre-ban Ruger P89 with the 16 round mag full of hollow points in the winter. In the summer I switch to the Taurus millenium 9mm - same loads. It's smaller and easier to conceal. NRA member, permitted in MI to concealed carry.
Never had a reason yet to even think about pulling it out. Hope I never do, but if someone threatens the LIFE of me or those I love, watch out. Property is another thing, if you want it that bad, take it. I'll buy another.

Was out in the back yard the other day shooting the Browning Buckmark .22 with my 14 yr old daughter. Watch out, potential boyfriends, she's a dead-eye!

[EZSnow]

labsnducks- I agree. If you're not willing to use it in a lethal manner, don't even bother. That said, I'm in the process of 'testing'(?) her. Took her deer hunting this year. She passed on a buck and four does as they were too far off for her .410. I don't think I would have taken a 70yd shot with a .410, either. She practiced at 50, and was right on the seeds, but 70 was a little lenghty. I suppose you might call that a fear of killing something, but I honestly believe she simply understood the limitations of her firearm. She (and I) will be thoroughly educated and practiced with what ever either of us carry.

ME? I have the luxury of not having purchased the wrong firearm. (read: I don't have a handgun... yet) So far I am REALLY liking 1911-stlye pistols, para's stuff is pretty cool, but I wouldn't mind a plain-old ****ed-and-locked springfield, either. Velocity be danged- I want a big slug- gimme a .45!!!

As an aside, can you imagine how many American lives the 1911 has saved?

[Roger Dodger]

flatbed, forget the newer S&W. They aren't what the old N frames used to be. The Ruger Super Redhawk is better! Even a Taurus over the S&W.

[flatbed]

i'm happy with the blackhawk...ruger build's a good strong weapon.....the s&w is more of a show thing anyway.....to spendy to own and operate..........but it would still look good in my gun case:) :)

[campi]

while I am in pa. I have a carry permit, i bring small one with me, 32 stainless semi auto berrata with me ! just in case, better safe than sorry!! people watch , after doing 10-15 drive ways, think you have pocket full of cash!!! never had to take it out yet , but yet i have it !!!! let it snow !!!! Campi !!!!!:cash

[campi]

Flatbed, quite the weapon, you carry that while plowing, how much does it weigh?? i have ruger 357police special 6 shot sweet but a little to heavy to carry around all the time also have 9mm and 32 stainless barreta use full metal jackets hollow points , thats the one i carry when plowing, very lite !! let it snow!!! Campi !!!!!:cash

[D&T Repair]

For those who carry firearms, have any of you actually shot a person before?
I only ask because it seems that it would ruin your life if you had to actually put a bullet into someone (not to mention lawsuits, etc).
If I carried a firearm (which I don't), I'd be more afraid of killing someone, rather than someone causing harm to me.
Just curious :)

FYI:
I'm not against firearms, as I own several rifles myself

[campi]

David Smith, yes i have shot and killed , many, but that was in VIET NAM war, many years, never shot at a civilian, would not unless i had to, its not an easy thing to do!!! Campi !!!!:usa

[EZSnow]

David, as discussed above, if you don't think you can pull the trigger and take the life of your assailant- DON'T CARRY A WEAPON!! If I find myself in a situation where it's gonna be him or me- I will do everything I have to to make sure it's him- not me. Likewise with my wife- if she won't shoot someone, I won't have her toting a pistol around. And as stated already- I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6...

[Progrounds]

David -
It is definitely something that you have to think long & hard about. In fact, 2 hours of the CCW class I took was about the legal & personal ramifications of that exact issue. Three people walked out of the 20 person class after that session and didn't return.
That's why I said earlier that it would have to be an issue regarding the LIFE of me or someone that I love before I would pull the trigger. In Michigan, the courts require that to be the case for a self-defense claim.
However, if it were to ever occur, I personally wouldn't think twice about pulling the trigger if the above conditions were met. In fact, the trigger would be pulled more than once (double tap), and my aim is really good.

[Adams Plowing]

Rugar P89 9mm

[Adams Plowing]

Lets try this pic again...

[Adams Plowing]

Mossberg 12ga w/ collapsable stock.

[handyhaver]

I have never shot anybody but would not hesitate if I had to.

I re-hab run down homes in Philly from time to time. When I enter a property, it's with gun drawn and 1,000,000 candle power rechargable spot light. I pretty much have to clear the property before we can get to work.

I have almost shot a few cats that have jumped out on me.. Scares the living s**t out of you. Hey, it's a living.

Mark

[campi]

I agree, with you all the way! you dont want try and scare any one you might get a suprise, that you, dont want! I was taught if i have to draw my weapon, I will use it! its a hard thing to do, but if it means your life, you have too!! any one that has a dought in there mind should not carry a weapon!! just my training that i had i hope i never have to use it, but i will, last resort!!! Campi !!!

[labsnducks]

Campi, You are correct, it is ALL about the training!

EZsnow, Amen!!!!

Mr. Smith, Yes I have, and its not something I like to talk about, I just hope you never have that experience, I hope nobody does, but if I had to again, there would be NO hesitation.

:usa


Mike

[snowjoker]

Well I carry a 6 D cell mag light and soon am going to get my pistol permit. Plus a 8000 pound battering ram is pretty much un stoppable in those unfortunate situations, I would not be afraid to push a car or person that would be threatening my life.

[D&T Repair]

I would use the firearm if I was forced to do so, as most everyone agrees, it's just that I would be more afraid of the consequences of shooting someone!
Too many lawsuits in this day and age!!!

I don't really know what I'm getting at...it just sucks that someone has to carry a weapon to protect themselves (nothing against the "honest people"....just knocking the ones that make people have to carry weapons!)

[PineIsland]

I dont feel like I carry because I "have to", but I consider it a tradition, a right, and a very natural thing to do. I dont think any more about sliding the Glock on than sliding the cell phone on the belt. Its not a big deal at all.

Certainly it has been that way in our country for most of its history.

[flatbed]

campi...

I have a rugar blackhawk .44 mag....... just lay it on the pasenger seat......the 500 is what i would like to have........I agree with training.......I grew up around weapons....my dad was a collector..so he taught me alot abought guns...on my 14th birthday he got me a 30-30 winchester and rcbs reloader...... been hooked ever since.......luckly i've lived in small towns all my life (under 2000 pop.) so i havent had to worry that much abought it.....With me it is "tradition" also...........

[szorno]

I carry a big 3D cell mag lite, and usually a Gerber tool. I also normally have my Search and Rescue pack set that has the police channels programmed in. If things get weird, I just call dispatch directly.:shades

[D&T Repair]

How about using a lighter and a can of hair spray as protection?
:D
It could also double as a de-icer!
Aqua-Net is the choice for me LOL

[cardoctor]

i would only shoot as a last resort
but its nice to have a last resort
john

[cutntrim]

I remember a thread like this on ******** a while back. Growing up in Canada it's weird hearing how many people are carrying guns down there. Canadians aren't able to carry like you guys do, but then again we don't really need to either. Aside from a few areas in the big cities, gun violence is rare. I didn't realize Brampton was dangerous, but Burlington and Oakville certainly don't qualify as areas where a gun is required.

I just keep my doors locked and if need be, I've got my 'Truck Club" locking bar to defend myself with outside the truck. Frankly, it's very rare to see anyone outside in a snow storm at night here...nevermind evildoers.

Guess I'm lucky to live where I do.

[Roger Dodger]

There are many ways you can avoid shooting an assailant. If they are pounding on your auto window, you can take off (hopefully your doors are locked). You can try to run, depending upon the situation, and do other evasive maneuvers before resorting to shooting. Even then you can aim to mame, like in the leg, unless there's a gun pointed at you! Many situations will offer some sort of possible retreat or escape without the need to stand ground and shoot. I think that's where some folks get screwed up. When attorneys/investigators unravel a case, they often find an opportunity for the "victim" to pursue a safer means of retreat without the need to fire a gun. Drawing a gun on someone really has to be an ABSOLUTE, LAST RESORT, not just for showing them you have a big stick!

[76chevyman]

all this gun talk makes me want to move back to Maine were what u shot is whats for dinner

[drobson]

It really depends on what state you are in. In MA you cannot use deadly force to protect your property, only your life; however, in NH you can use deadly force to protect your property. Big difference when you can legally shoot or even just hit someone that is trying to steal your car.

There's also an old unwritten rule: If your going to shoot someone, make sure you kill them. Reason for this was that it's harder for a family to sue you than for an injured person. Plus there is one less witness.

I for one, would never try to shoot someone in an extremity. One thing any law enforcement or personal protection training will teach you is, always aim for the largest part of the body (torso) because there is less chance of missing. And if you think getting sued by someone you were trying to protect yourself from is bad, then you don't want to be sued by an innocent bystander that got hit by a stray bullet because it missed or went through an arm or leg.

[cat320]

Well if you shoot them outside pull them in the house cut yourself with a knife and put it in there hands . self defense That is what a cop told me once. ;)

[drobson]

haha, another old saying was: If you shoot him, make sure he falls "in".

[95zIV]

Here in Vermont a permit is not necessary to carry firearms in vehicles. Rifles are required to be unloaded in the vehicle but pistols can be carried loaded and concealed(as long as you do not intend to use them for illegal purposes). Being a hunter, and working at a job where ocassionally coyote's will be in the fields or cross the road in front of you. It's not unusual for me to have a mini-14 and a kimber 1911 clone with me at all times.

[EZSnow]

how do you like that kimber? I was looking at pistols tonight. I'm a dead ringer for a 1911- gotta have one. My pistol will be MY PISTOL... (single in count but multiple in purpose) I'm comfortable with ****ed, locked and grip-safetied, so now it comes down to whose 1911 to buy.

Pelican- you've got the para, and I'm assuming it's one of their LDA models- how do you like it? I like the squeeze on a single action, but I've read that you can barely tell the difference with the new paras.

Back to the Kimber- not the cheapest 1911, but I'm guessing it's worth the dough.

Anyone have anything to say about Springfield 1911s? How 'bout Dan Wesson?

By the way- as this has strayed a bit from plowing, per se, I am comfortable with it being moved to off-topic.

[Pelican]

I've got both the P12/45 and P14/45, both are single action pistols. I've had beaver tails installed on both, they've got one of the nicest triggers out of box you'll find. You need a fairly large hand to get around the double stacked .45 magazine, but I love these things.

The Kimber is a real nice gun too. My friend has one and the magazines rate them as high quality. It's got all the custom features you'd want at a price only slightly higher than other brands. It's been compared to the best Wilson has to offer at about 1/3 the cost.

****ed and locked is the only effective way to carry a 1911, with the 3 safeties there's virtually no way a mechanical misfire can occur, only handler error will cause it.

[RPM]

I have a lot of cops nextel two-way #'s in my phone...if that doesn't work....9mm in the console, if there is a riot around one of my properties, AR-15 w/ scope and 30 round mags. Oh wait maybe that is in my motion picture action debut co-starring Jennifer Aniston and Paris Hilton!pimp

[4evergreenlawns]

WOW

pictures of guns

talking about carring guns in truck,

what type of ammo,

how many clips,

back ups, (because I have seen alot in the news about the violent assualts on plow operators needing to fatal end due to primary weapon failure)NOT!!!


So I thought I would pipe up, 12 years active duty military, (Desert Storm 1 Vet.) Real live full time Police Oficer for five year before being disabled from the job and started this business full time. Yes, I have carried my share of weapons and STRONGLY have a working knowledge of our rights BUT if this was my 1st visiting this site for PLOWING INFORMATION I would have never returned.

This thread started out asking a simple question more towards has anyone had the need for personal protection while PLOWING. Off topic would be an understatement. Is there some why we can get the thread moved over to the NRA web page.

I am guessing your GL insurance will not cover the wrongful death case if and when you let a round/s go and it hits the kid sleeping two houses down, or even if it hit the jerk that you might think was threating you. In police shooting 80% of the rounds fired MISS the intended target but do hit something.

As far as self defense, you are driving a 10,000 to 20,000 pound vehicle and you think you still be a little gun in your hand, or pocket, or console, or fanny pack or wherever like you are going to get to it if a real gunman walks up to your while plowing????!!!

Four pages of this and no one thinks it has not place among working professional fourm??

Chuck-if I am out of line I am sorry. But this thread needs to be tossed if for nothing else just for the numerous firearms picture. I would hate to see a client stummble across this site and come across this.

[wyldman]

I too am suprised at the response to this thread.We can't carry,and guns aren't the norm around here,so it's a little shocking seeing the firepower you guys have.

[hjls3]

i am a huge fan of firearms. one of the things i like the most is keeping my collection quiet. it is not really anybodys business whether or not i carry or dont carry. i think what can scare some folks is seeing somthing like this thread. part of being a knowledgeble and responsible gun owner, in my eyes, is keeping these discussions to appropriate places. i have to agree with previous post i would sure hate it if the wrong person read this. maybe you guys that plow for a living should have some concerns about protection. in fact i think you definately should. but perhaps there is a better forum to talk about the solutions too your concerns.
i have been very impressed with the professionalism i have seen in this web site. it shows me that you guys really take pride in what you do. i have only respect for that. i think you guys can teach me an others a tremendous amount of info that has to do with snowplowing but for advice on personal protection i think i will look elsewhere.
take pride in your rights. i do. but maybe pic of guns and such detailed conversation about guns should remain somewhere else. you never know who might be reading this..could be the guy who plans to rob you now that he knows you carry he will just shoot you first then take your truck or whateverelse he desires.
i dont want to be a hagg i just want to be responsible gun owner and learn somthing about being better snowplower. i will look for different thread that might teach me somthing about snowplowing
sorry for the speech...john

[EZSnow]

4evergreenlawns, hjls3, and any with similar thoughts-
As you or anyone else can plainly read, this thread started out (by me) with the intention of finding out if anyone felt it necessary to carry a method of self-defense while plowing and why. I must admit that I enjoy the responsible ownership and use of firearms as much as anyone, and part of the purpose behind my question was to find out if anyone else shared this hobby, as well as gain the opinions of those people I have come to respect. I agree, that this thread no longer has anything to do with snowplowing, but as has been said before (whether here or elsewhere) these threads often seem to take on a life of their own- not by anyone's direction, but it happens. I therefore agree that it does not belong in the "snowplowing discussion" forum, but I see no more reason to completely remove it than I do the "American Choppers" thread. This is why I requested its movement to the off-topic forum.

hjls3, I respect your opinion that you choose not to tell anyone if you are carrying or not. This is part of why this may be a good place for such a discussion- there is a certain amount of anonymity availed in this environment. Granted, if someone REALLY wants to find out who you anyone else are, they can' probably accomplish it, but I think you'll understand my point.

Again- I proposed the question to find the opinions of those I respect, and I feel this thread will fit in just fine in the off-topic forum. I'll try to keep any specific gun questions (what kind of guns do you like?) to the PM system.

To all of you: have a wonderful Thanksgiving- seeya soon!

[PineIsland]

Not an issue where I come from. Sorry about Canada, or other big cities in America where you have lost touch with what this country really is all about. Its been an armed society since its founding, and most of us are not ashamed or even think twice about that fact.

If you come here for plowing info, and something like this makes you leave-goodbye. Go to ******** and hang with them, they like to tell everyone what is appropriate too.

[PineIsland]

There is a very small percentage of cops and ex cops who think that they are somehow more capable of handling a gun or situation with a gun than "regular folks".

Whatever.

And some of us who care this much about guns may just be a tad MORE prepared than some thug on the street.


And trust me, if it ever comes down to defending life with a gun, by a cop or non cop, the fact of an isurance company being displeased will be the last worry. They are displeased I'm PLOWING for crying out loud...

[hjls3]

ezsnow
no worries...i just would warn you to be very careful about what info you take to heart. hey i agree, have started a thread called our toys. i too am interested in our hobbies, ikes and dislikes not just how to plow a sidewalk. as a gun owner though i try to not upset those around me who might not share the same opinion as me concerning guns. most of the time i have found that when someone has a severe hatred for guns, which a reader might, he or she has a reason for it. ie suicide, school shooting or somthing else tragic. talk about guns always ends up in a heated discussion. i admire you in a way for not being affraid to get the topic going. again just be careful about the info you get from here. i read a reply where a person stated he took two hour course on the legal ramifications of a shooting. i wonder if a lawyer taught that course? if he did shoot someone in self defense i hope it was a lawyer or he could be in trouble. inour court system, as i understand, the only person that can give you legal advice is a lawyer. thats a whole nother thread....do what you want,i will, just tread softly.-john

[Pelican]

My surprise comes not from the topic, but that it took four pages of posts for a comment of this type to come along. The media would have us believe that the vast majority of Americans are opposed to our Second Amendmant, I think this thread shows otherwise.

It also shows that gun owners can be "regular" people, not the lunatics or rednecks (though some may say I fit the latter description) that the anti-gun crowd depicts. I feel our public needs exposure to the truth, not the hype that those who would squash our rights spew.

As far as I know, our rules limit discussions of religion and illegal topics, nothing else, and presently firearms are still legal. Freedom of speech is another wonderful right in our Country and everyone here is welcome to excercise their freedom of choice.

While I don't walk around telling everyone I run into that I'm carrying a firearm, I welcome the opportunity to talk with those I consider friends about the topic. And yes, I'm aware that many others can see my words, my thoughts are these words may inspire other responsible members to investigate firearm ownership after seeing many here feel it's not the stigma they may have been led to believe. I doubt very much if you were to pass me walking down the street you would ever guess I'm armed, I know those who are trained to recognize this have missed it.

I would urge anyone interested in firearms to take the appropriate safety course(s) before purchasing your weapon to avoid developing any bad habits that may jeapordize safety and will need to be broken. I would not oppose this being a prerequisite to purchasing. I've received safety and tactical training from an instructor who trained under Masaad Ayoob. American Handgunner magazine is an excellent resource for choosing your gun, and locating training courses.

4evergreenlawns, let me first thank you for your service to our Country and to your community. I have nothing but respect for those who choose these fields. One of your comments however, strikes me as peculiar.

As far as self defense, you are driving a 10,000 to 20,000 pound vehicle and you think you still be a little gun in your hand, or pocket, or console, or fanny pack or wherever like you are going to get to it if a real gunman walks up to your while plowing????!!!
Would you prefer to be with or without your sidearm while seated in your HumVee or patrol car?

hjls3, I respect your opinion, but you'd be surprised at the information that might be available here at this site regardless of topic. You've just done what you've warned the rest of us against doing, exposed yourself as a gun owner and carrier. To heed your own advice, you'd been better off not posting at all, but we welcome debate here.you never know who might be reading this..could be the guy who plans to rob you now that he knows you carry he will just shoot you first then take your truck or whateverelse he desires.
Statistics show this not to be the case. In almost all cases, if a criminal is aware his victim may be armed, he'll pick an easier target. What chance would you have against an assasin without a weapon?

I have friends in the police agencies that serve us, they quote statistics that 80% of the households in this area are armed. Except for domestic disputes, this has made their jobs easier as the crime rate is extremely low. The criminals are aware that we are armed too, and pick areas that they are less likely to be confronted by an individual who would defend himself and property.

I personally enjoy the "Off Topic" section of this forum as much as any of the others, I come here for more reasons than to learn how to plow. At the "other" site, my post count would have been about double what it was if "Off Topic" posts were included, I posted there as often as the rest of the entire site.

If I come across a topic I disagree with, I just move on. If I feel I can pass on some information, or spark a debate, I'll join in, but I would never suggest a post be pulled because I disagreed with the topic, as long as it fell within the rules.

[cardoctor]

where i plow the crack heads cant even spell
snowplowing-contractors let a lone own a computer
if the did the sell it $5.00 rock and a peice of antenna

if you dont like the discussion dont read it

john:argue

[Pelican]

OK, I see a few posts were made while I was typing. One reason this thread might get closed is if it becomes unruly.

No personal attacks will be permitted!

We can have a debate here of opinions, just keep it civil.

[hjls3]

pelican
should have copied and pasted part where i said i carried....

[cardoctor]

it ashame if it gets closed down
i dont belong to the nra
im not an extremist
but i do enjoy talking about protection
john

[atgreene]

I don't know many plow operators in these parts who haven't carried from time to time. But in our case, like Mick said, its for wildlife. I'm much more interested in controlling the coyote population than I am worried about someone trying to steal from me.

Mick, what part of ME ya from?

[handyhaver]

In our neck of the woods it's for the wildlife also.

Just a slightly different kind

;)

Mark

[atgreene]

Ya, I suppose if I was in your area I would probably carry for a different reason. I did have a friend who hit a moose one night in a grader and thought he was going to need his sidearm. After a little banging and thrashing he ran off.

[CNY Joe]

My truck is my protection and if I have to get out its with the tire iron that behind the seat...:D