Average snow and effects on prices

[Mustang]

Just read in another thread that the Syracuse area ahas almost 300 inches of snow!!!!! We just surprassed last year with 40 something inches which is over 10 inches more than the average winter!

I'm curious, how much is normal for you guys in the Syracuse area? What about the rest of you that typically have a lot of snow in an average winter? And how does that affect pricing? Do the guys in the snowier areas get less per hour due to the volume than guys in areas with more moderate snow amounts?

[W-n-K Landscaping]

Mustang-

Just to clarify a bit here- Syracuse has had a measured amount at the airport of 174.2" I am located about 20 mins north of Syracuse- and about 25 mins from the Tug Hill Plateu. We have gotten close to 300 inches this season so far- and are waiting to see how much more will come before the season ends(two years ago we had snow on Mothers Day!!) We are in a unique area that gets lake effect off of Lake Ontario on a regular basis. Thsi season we had stretches of 14 days that it snowed straight in a row, and last year it was 8-14 days at a time. I have seena trend, and I need to find the article that was done on it, but Lake Ontario has not been freezing the last few years and that has resulted in more lake effect for our area. If the wind blows from the west- it travels the entire length of the lake and starts to dump all that moisture just after it hits land. As it progresses my way, it starts snowing heavier- we had measured snowfall rates of 12 inches an hour this year (during the storm in January where we got 5 feet of snow in 5 hours) and it was not uncommon to see 4-6 inches an hour. It will be interesting to see what is going to come in the future seasons, the article I was refering to was saying that we can look forward to more winter seasons like the one we just went through thanks to "global warming" and "El Nino" the jet stream just loves pulling that arctic air down out of Canada and right over the lake providing us with all of that lovely white stuff!! LOL!

I will try and find some numbers for my area that are official, but we have definitely hit the 290"+ mark this season, and I would not be surprised if we surpassed 300 inches( January we had 130+ inches alone!) I am looking at some different attack ideas for next season- including a major modification to a Fisher or Diamond blade to make it wider, and capable of scooping (gee, I know- go buy a Blizzard! I want one, but $$$ talks) to try and make my runs more efficient as well as being able to windrow better when we get those 2 foot dumps that were not uncommon the last couple of seasons. I will keep you guys up to date on my ideas and progress.

Bill

[BRL]

"Do the guys in the snowier areas get less per hour due to the volume than guys in areas with more moderate snow amounts?"

Yes this is definitely the case from what I've seen & heard. I remember out of curiousity asking the owners of houses in Lake Placid & in locations in Vermont what they paid for their plowing while renting them for snowboarding trips. These were long drives through the woods that I would classify as easy to moderate difficulty for plowing. And these locations get much much more than my average of 24" per year here. Those drives wouldn't be touched around here for less than 100.00 - 150.00 per push & they were paying 12.00 at the Lake Placid one & at the VT ones they were paying 15.00 - 20.00 per push. I was in shock lol. But a year or so later I realized it was because of the shear volume that they were priced that way. And we have seen similar stories posted at these message boards showing the pricing to be lower in the higher snow fall areas.

[Alan]

There is also what I call a "snow panic" reaction that affects pricing but I'm not sure it's linked to amounts as much as it is attitude.

Our average here is right around 80", tallied for official purposes at the Burlington airport (BTV). As of 3/15 it stood at 82.5" so we will be slightly over average for the season.

But, this area does not get all flustered over a few inches of snowfall, hence there is no "snow panic" mentality. That is changing though as people move in from aras where snow is a cause for total disruption of your normal routine.

Residentials are normally on a 4" trigger. It's hell when you have a route of normal folks and then get one right in the middle who absolutely HAS to be plowed at 2".

" My gawd, we can't get to the gym or little bobbie might miss hockey practice if we have to deal with 4" of snow. If you can't get us plowed when we nned it we'll just have to get someone more reliable! We just moved here from (insert southern state) and nodoby ever lets it get that deep there."

Anyhow,, I digress. Typical house driveway here is probably 75-100 ft long and 12-16 ft wide. And it goes for a $20 minimum from me. Others are still doing them for $15. Some guys are taking work at numbers so low as to be ridiculous.

I asked about plowing on a private street in the village. Probably 1,000 ft long, one lane, gravel, in poor condition with 6 house driveways opening onto it. Current contractor is doing it for $1,000 a year! The fellow I talked to says they know the plower is crazy low, but as long as he's happy with that number they will keep using him. And I don't blame them, it is morally wrong to ltell a sucker he's working too cheap.

[sonjaab]

GUYS.....I totally agree with Bill on this one about how we get
nailed every year ! I live less than 3 miles from lake ontario
and we really get that lake effect !

Bill is about 25 miles further east of me he gets both the lake
effect and the snow from the "Tug Hill Terror" which blows
to the south over the St. Lawrence river area on the US-Can.
border directly to HIS house !

LUCKY GUY...He gets BOTH! :D :D :D

I have a summer place along the St. Lawrence river and the snow blows directly OVER us and down to his/my neck of the woods !

As far a pricing and lowballers ........There seems to be a new batch every year! It seems somebody will cut your throat over 5 bucks! But yet again with all the snow we get.....TIME......takes
them outta the picture !

Its so good to network with others up here...Esp. with a 1 truck
operation! Bill and I know this !

Pricing is FIERCE here in the snowbelt. Most folks wanna pay 15 bucks to clear a foot of snow outta their driveway !

It funny tho.....Last time I hooked up with the Philly. guys and they told me what they charge....I was shocked !
Not too much snow in their area per year and not as many
plows running around. I guess they can charge more !
Which is good...
I remember when I was in Philly in March 93 when they got nailed !

IN all yes...The places with a LOT of snow seem to get less
money per push IMO................geo

BILL: Check the paper...LOTS of late model rigs for a great price.
I can see ya riding a new Chevy with a BIG V this season!
Me..I am still undecided on a new truck or not this year.
Heck only 28k on mine......But I can't stand when they are
off warranty!

[sonjaab]

Just picked up a pizza and wings from the pizza shop across
the street....Lg. pepperoni pizza and 10 wings...$23 bucks !

The shop owner has been bugging me for 2 yrs to plow her lot
for a lousy 25 bucks!

I tell her.......SORRY............$50 .....If ya want me to do it !
GEE.....TOOOO much $$ she sez...........

Yet she whines and cries and flags me down every snow
event that her lowballer didn't show up again !!!!!!!
Or the guy she had crushed his fender or bent his plow
doing her NASTY lot ! ie: curbs, dumpsters, bushes, trees,
and NOT paved all dirt and some crushed stone, etc !
And he QUIT!

I don't cry to her about the $23 dollar food............
Or my 33k truck.......So PAY or go away !!!!!!

[ebaron]

I think the heavier snow areas just cause more people to buy plow trucks the next year. Then you get too many plowers, and too many willing to plow for Burger King wages.

The past two winters in Rochester have been way above average. When pricing a contract (many want/demand it) I've used 12 trips per year and it worked good. Past 2 years we have been at 20+. Many plowers are still giving $150-175 annual contracts. Yep, now you are at $7.50 /trip. With the cost of trucks and plows this can't keep up. I think we'll lose some plowers this year, which should start pushing prices back into reason (up!). But, if we get another 3 trip year, the prices will get pushed back down!

January tired out a lot of shovelers and snowblowers. It probably put a good share of the 'cheap' plow trucks in the shop (and the real cost of plowing was realized: 1 tranny=100plows:eek: ). With these past 2 winters, I think business will improve next year and for a better price.

[Mick]

It all comes down to the law of Supply and Demand. In areas with high snowfall amounts, you'll find more plows. In lesser snowfall areas, you'll find fewer plows. It doesn't really matter what the area gets for snowfall, though. If, in an area which gets 300" there was only one plow for 1,000 residents, obviously that guy couldn't do them all. There would be a number of people willing to pay a high price for his service. But, in reality, the opposite is true since there will be several people in that area with plows. Now, in areas with lesser snowfall amounts, you'll find fewer plows. The plows there are can charge a higher price for the few times they do go out. So, would you rather make $300 an hour and go out once a year or $60 an hour and go out five times?

Theoretically, it will even out. The guys in areas with higher snowfalls, will charge less but push more often. The guys in areas with lesser amounts will push less often but get more per push. Of course, there are factors that can throw this off. For instance, being in a high snowfall area but living in an area of highly paid people or businesses who/which demand a high level of service.

[snowjoker]

I think our avg. here is around 100 inches last year we had 135" plus , but we are over 100" so far this year, as for pricing, the lowballers are here too. It sucks that the county is one of the poorest in the state combined with the lowballers, it's tuff to get any plow jobs. But I have had a more than one call saying that their plow guy broke down or can't get ahold of him. Then I say how much I am gonna charge $20-$25 minimum. Then they either say ok or " I will get back to ya" :rolleyes:

[31mv31]

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez!!!

100+" of snow in a season, that's insane!!
I can't remember the last time Chicago got over 50"
Standard out here is 2-3" before a plow will go out

[PSDF350]

we probably average about 120" or so. now i just wish the state took better care of my road. i live on rt119, between rts 12 to the east an rt32 to the west. now rt119 east of rt12 clear west of rt32 clear my section of 119 10" of snow on the ground every storm is like this:mad: