Ethanol problems?

[Landgreen]

I was told by a local fuel distributor that E10 causes all sorts of problems in the fuel system. From causing fuel separation to power loss. Also loosens debris in the tank and can clog fuel system.

He recommeded I purchase this http://mystarbrite.com/startron/

Is something to be concerned about or is this guy just selling a "magic elexir"? I'm assuming the latter but thought I would ask.

[95zIV]

I had a conversation about this not too long ago. I'm told that the ethanol can cause gumming in carbs. The guy I talked to recommended this, and I've heard about it from other people too.

http://www.seafoamsales.com/motor-treatment.html

[towman]

seafoam is a great product, use it in both of my carbed bikes , and all the small engines also, it can also be used as a stabalizer

[CGSI]

If you are running vehicles that were made before the introduction of ethynol your fuel lines won't like it either as they will rapidly break down. When it seperates it causes corrosion issues and when it seperates it does all kinds of bad things. My 33 foot sea ray has twin 350's in it and I run Startron in it all the time. I sure as well do not want 200 gallons of gas to separate and have to get tossed out.

Take a glass quart container and fill it with gas and just let it set there a while and you will see the seperation occur

[stargazer]

:droolI run Startron in it all the time. I sure as well do not want 200 gallons of gas to separate and have to get tossed out.

Take a glass quart container and fill it with gas and just let it set there a while and you will see the seperation occur

:grinz

Thanks for the science experiment.

I think that ethanol destroys engines and their sensors. A friend who is a pilot told me (IIRC) that it was illegal to use it in an airplane motor where your life depends on the motor running.

The moment they put in 10% I got 10% less gas mileage, and a headache. I hate the stuff and consider it another zero researched popular "green" screw up. If I get 10% less mileage I need 10% more fuel. No gain, unless you count the increased taxes on the higher priced fuel I need 10% more of, a gain.

[cretebaby]

The moment they put in 10% I got 10% less gas mileage,

(Cough)Bullpucky.

[Chuck Smith]

Small engines love ethanol...... NOT! A small engine shop by me regularly samples fuel from the local gas stations, and sends customers to those with the least ethanol in the fuel. He has a glass graduated cylinder, and like John said, you can see it seperated, and the ratio based on the graduations. I believe there are service bulletins about ethanol from Echo, Stihl, etc. Ask your local shop.

Hess is the only station here with a large sign stating their fuel contains as much as 10% ethanol. I go elsewhere.

~Chuck

[Pelican]

Since the change to ethanol, my 2 stroke equipment runs 2 to 3 years before the carburetors are junk. I called the local fuel distributor and he tells me the nearest station with straight gas is 100 miles away. These EPA idiots should be shot!!!

[Mark Oomkes]

Since the change to ethanol, my 2 stroke equipment runs 2 to 3 years before the carburetors are junk. I called the local fuel distributor and he tells me the nearest station with straight gas is 100 miles away. These EPA idiots should be shot!!!

And then drawn and quartered.

Haven't had too much problem yet, but more than in the past.

The stupidest part about it is it takes more energy to produce fuel that produces less BTU's which requires more fuel to produce the same amount of power.

The best part is, we subsidized this crap. :(

Thanks for the links, I'll be checking into them.

[cretebaby]

The stupidest part about it is it takes more energy to produce fuel that produces less BTU's which requires more fuel to produce the same amount of power.

Really Mark?

[Mark Oomkes]

Really Mark?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329132436.htm

From wikipedia:

Fuel economy

In theory, all fuel-driven vehicles have a fuel economy (measured as miles per US gallon, or liters per 100 km) that is directly proportional to the fuel's energy content.[42] In reality, there are many other variables that come into play that affect the performance of a particular fuel in a particular engine. Ethanol contains approx. 34% less energy per unit volume than gasoline, and therefore in theory, burning pure ethanol in a vehicle will result in a 34% reduction in miles per US gallon , given the same fuel economy, compared to burning pure gasoline. Since ethanol has a higher octane rating, the engine can be made more efficient by raising its compression ratio. In fact using a variable turbocharger, the compression ratio can be optimized for the fuel being used, making fuel economy almost constant for any blend. .[20][21] For E10 (10% ethanol and 90% gasoline), the effect is small (~3%) when compared to conventional gasoline,[43] and even smaller (1-2%) when compared to oxygenated and reformulated blends.[44] However, for E85 (85% ethanol), the effect becomes significant. E85 will produce lower mileage than gasoline, and will require more frequent refueling. Actual performance may vary depending on the vehicle. Based on EPA tests for all 2006 E85 models, the average fuel economy for E85 vehicles resulted 25.56% lower than unleaded gasoline.[45] The EPA-rated mileage of current USA flex-fuel vehicles[46] should be considered when making price comparisons, but it must be noted that E85 is a high performance fuel, with an octane rating of about 104, and should be compared to premium. In one estimate[47] the US retail price for E85 ethanol is 2.62 US dollar per gallon or 3.71 dollar corrected for energy equivalency compared to a gallon of gasoline priced at 3.03 dollar. Brazilian cane ethanol (100%) is priced at 3.88 dollar against 4.91 dollar for E25 (as July 2007).

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=7308

I'm sure I can find more.

But, on top of that, making a food source tied into a commodity is just flat stupid.

[wi-cj5]

What about premium. Around here all of the premium (91 octane) has signs that state there is no ethanol in it. The 87 and 89 octane are all at least 10% ethanol.

[cretebaby]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329132436.htm

From wikipedia:

Fuel economy

In theory, all fuel-driven vehicles have a fuel economy (measured as miles per US gallon, or liters per 100 km) that is directly proportional to the fuel's energy content.[42] In reality, there are many other variables that come into play that affect the performance of a particular fuel in a particular engine. Ethanol contains approx. 34% less energy per unit volume than gasoline, and therefore in theory, burning pure ethanol in a vehicle will result in a 34% reduction in miles per US gallon , given the same fuel economy, compared to burning pure gasoline. Since ethanol has a higher octane rating, the engine can be made more efficient by raising its compression ratio. In fact using a variable turbocharger, the compression ratio can be optimized for the fuel being used, making fuel economy almost constant for any blend. .[20][21] For E10 (10% ethanol and 90% gasoline), the effect is small (~3%) when compared to conventional gasoline,[43] and even smaller (1-2%) when compared to oxygenated and reformulated blends.[44] However, for E85 (85% ethanol), the effect becomes significant. E85 will produce lower mileage than gasoline, and will require more frequent refueling. Actual performance may vary depending on the vehicle. Based on EPA tests for all 2006 E85 models, the average fuel economy for E85 vehicles resulted 25.56% lower than unleaded gasoline.[45] The EPA-rated mileage of current USA flex-fuel vehicles[46] should be considered when making price comparisons, but it must be noted that E85 is a high performance fuel, with an octane rating of about 104, and should be compared to premium. In one estimate[47] the US retail price for E85 ethanol is 2.62 US dollar per gallon or 3.71 dollar corrected for energy equivalency compared to a gallon of gasoline priced at 3.03 dollar. Brazilian cane ethanol (100%) is priced at 3.88 dollar against 4.91 dollar for E25 (as July 2007).

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=7308

I'm sure I can find more.

But, on top of that, making a food source tied into a commodity is just flat stupid.

The Berkeley study has been discredited by many. Patzek has even acknowledged using faulty numbers. He counted things like the concrete used to build the plant and didn't account for the feed and other byproducts left over.

67% of the corn is left over a distillers grain when making ethanol. if you take into consideration that animal feds corn don't use all of the energy in it the total used for ethanol production is even less than 33%.

For some reason I can't open pdf's right now or I would post a link to current studies that are showing ethanol yields about 1.6 times more than it uses.

[JMac]

What about premium. Around here all of the premium (91 octane) has signs that state there is no ethanol in it. The 87 and 89 octane are all at least 10% ethanol.

Thats also what my dealer told me to do. I have not as I fuel both mowers and handhelds off one large tank and am not about to run premium through the mowers. Im not made of gold.

[jimindm]

I am an auto tech by trade here in Iowa. I know that customers that do run E85 do experience lower fuel economy. The differnce in E10 would be minimal. A lot of people say they have had a problem with ethanol. Most of the time it was a long time ago. When E10 first came out, 20+ years ago, it was blended in the transport truck. It filled with regular fuel, and ethonol on top. Now it is blended at the refinery that the truck is filled with all at once, tens of thousands of gallons at a time.

I have looked at fuel samples from many vehicles. I would say just filling a glass jar with fuel and watching it seperate would be hard to do. Maybe if it has sat for weeks or months. If you add water, which the ethonol attracts to, you will then see a seperation line form at once.

There is a load of this and that added to fuel. Detergents is a big one. Another one that helps with the starting in the cold temps, and just the opposite in the summer. Check your mileage in the dead of summer compared to the middle of winter. There is difference, and it has to be the formulation of the fuel, ethonol or not.

Most people have never heard of "Top Teir Fuel". If you drive a BMW, GM, Honda, Toyota, VW or Audi, you should be using it. Manufacturers want it used on all model lines. Search "top teir fuel" for stations that carry it. Not many do.

The advise I give my customers is to buy it from the same retailer, and make it one that sells a lot of fuel. How often do you see tanker trucks where you currently buy fuel? Do they get a load every day or one every two weeks, or once a month?

[MattR]

I am forced to run the premium fuel since it does not have Ethanol yet in it. Once they started in this area with the 10% Ethanol, my MPG in my tow vehicle went from 10-11mpg down to 6-7mpg. That was using regular unleaded then going to the regular with 10% Ethanol in it. Running premium (NO Ethanol), I now gained a little and went up to 12mpg but also costs more per gallon. As far as performance is concerned, I drive too dang slow to notice any loss of performance when I am towing a trailer.

I am not made of gold either, yet with the mpg dropping drastically, I am forced to run premium or stay home. Now with gas hitting $2.99/gal here today for the regular unleaded with 10% in it, it might be a tough winter for me.


Note** Vehicle used for towing for the mpg comparison is NOT the plow truck. Kinda tough to get an accurate mpg when plowing a driveway...lol.

Matt
(Hoping for lots of snow)

[BrockwayMT]

I bought a new float for the Tecumseh in my Troy-Bilt tiller since the brass one had a hole in it. The new float was plastic and had writing all over the bag saying "DO NOT EXCEED 10% ETHANOL." Apparently plastic carburetor components don't like it.

Here in central NY the winter gas sucks this year. My Mazda3 went from a dead consistent 31 mpg to 27/28 instantly. Ford Ranger went from 25 to 22. The worst victim is my 8hp snowblower. It just runs too lean on this crap. I have to run the load needle pretty much wide open.

[Mark Oomkes]

I've been having a ton of runnability issues with handheld equipment since the changeover in my area. Backpack blowers, snowmobiles, trimmers, etc. Drain the gas and you can't even light it on fire.

Really getting annoying.

[Rick]

I run nothing but super (91) in my mowers and hand held stuff. 10% was bad . Now I hear they are going to up it to 15%. Cann't wait.:mad:

[FL450B]

I run a service dept at a jap motorcycle dealer we also sell power equpm as well we do about 25/30% of our bus. Is cleaning carb/ fuel systems we sell startron great product it will turn bab fuel good we have done in house testing and found that fuel will go bad in about 3 weeks with startron it will keep for 2 years