What are your Salting Techniques

[Snowboy]

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Do you salt when a storm aproaches knowing there is going to be X amount of snow?


Do you salt only after you have plowed and the storm is done?


When you bill for salt (if not seasonal salting contract) do you say you salted 2 times that day or just put in total tons used?



How do you respond to why did you salt when you knew it was going to snow more?
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Thanks,
Dave.

[cat320]

Well We did a Mcdonalds and salted


A. No we did not salt before

B. We salted only ater it was plowed

C. Billed per application

D.WE would say conditions are icy and it needed to be done.

[Chuck Smith]

A. It depends on the contract and site requirements. The goal is to keep the site safe, and pre salting will help prevent a bond from forming between the precipitation and the pavement. It will give vehicles and pedestrians more traction, and allow you to scrape clean when you plow it.

B. Again, it depends on the account, and what is typical for your area. Generally speaking, it is common to apply salt after each plowing. This helps keep the site safe, and it buys you some time before the site has to be plowed again. It also helps prevent that bond from forming I mentioned above.

C. It depends on the contract. Some contractors bill "per application" and others bill for T & M (Time & Materials). This is an old debate, but I still can't see how per ton pricing is more profitable than per application pricing.

D. It is in the contract that the contractor makes the call as to when salt needs to be applied, and how much, to keep the site safe. After all, that is the goal of plowing and de-icing operations, to keep the site safe and accessible, is it not? This is where an educated customer is your best customer.

~Chuck

[wyldman]

A - We don't normally pretreat,or salt before a storm,as most places don't want it.They think it costs more.It actually cost effective sometimes.We have been doing it lately with all the freezing rain and ice pellets mixed with snow,as it prevents the bond,so you can plow it up later.It will also buy you some time if it turns out to be more ice than snow.I still bill it as one application.So if we used 20 tons before the storm,and 20 tons after,they get billed for 40 tons worth.

B - We will usually do most of our salting after the storm,to melt any remaining snow,and prevent refreezing later.The colder it is,the more salt you need to spread.

C - We bill "per ton applied",and it's invoiced every month.The customer gets faxed or e-mailed an update right after every event,as to how much was applied,and when\why it was applied.Invoice goes out at the end of the month with just the "total tons applied".Makes month end invoicing easier,and less dispute from the customer,as they already know what was applied,and why.

D - I will not take any contracts for de-icing services if we are not in control of making the decisions.There is nothing worse than letting the customer decide,because they always wait to see if they can get by without it,and then it's too late.If they don't trust my judgement on when,and how much to apply,then I don't want them.Having detailed notes on site conditions,and weather are very important to back up your decisions if the customer does decide to question why you salted.

[Lawn Lad]

A) Applying ice control chemical before the storm, anti-icing, as Chuck said is very effective at keeping snow from bonding to the pavement. For lighter snow falls, a 1/2 to 3/4 of a "full" application of salt will melt maybe an inch of snow (depending on moisture content, rate of snow fall, traffic, etc). So if I'm good with the timing (get it down right before or just as the snow is falling) I could get some great results from presalting. A nighttime storm I may be more inclined to put the salt down a little earlier (full application across open lots) while during a daytime storm I will generally wait until the first flakes are in the sky and are falling before we begin to apply. We keep our salt routes short (2.5 hrs ish) so we can go through the route in short order when the snow starts to fall.

B) We salt after each plowing almost every time for those accounts where we salt. No all accounts get salted. This is determined by the level of service the customer desires.

C) We invoice on a per application basis. Charging by the pound I do not believe is as profitable. It also may encourage over application which is not good for many reasons.

D) We are rarely asked why we applied chemical to a site. We keep good records so we can back it up if necessary. As for continuous snow falls - there have only been two times this year I withheld salt during a storm. One heavy/continuous snow fall event I knew that an hour later I would be sending trucks back to plow another 1.5" to 2.0" of snow. I held off salting since the salt would have been going down on top of existing snow - which I try to avoid. I try to salt right after plowing if at all possible so the traffic will break up any remaining slush/snow and get the lot down to bare pavement as soon as possible. This will also buy time with new snow fall before it will accumulate and keep the pavement bare longer. Withholding salt will allow snow to accumulate faster, become compacted and create a slippery/icy condition.

[wyldman]

Laying it down heavy or windrowing salt at the entrances will save time,and let the cars do some of the work as they track it around.Just watch how some of the city trucks do it,you can learn a lot sometimes.

I also see a lot of guys who just have to cover every last inch of a lot with salt.Spreading a little more on the high spots,and a little less on the low spots will do a better job.It also prevents a lot of the salt brine from getting washed down the drains,or into the ditches.As the brine forms,it will run under the snow towards the low spots,doing more work as it goes.