Liquid and sidewalks

[Lawngodfather]

Anyone use liquid for sidewalks?

Pretreat and also to melt.

I am looking at bulding a 200gal unit or sao, and put it in the back of a truck.

I am also hoping to eliminate bags, and using pellets of potassium, cause they did not do so great on our several ice storms we had.

Oh and what products are you using?

[River Hill]

I have been looking into the same thing. I have found my cost for Caliber over $4.00 per gallon and that makes it not feasible for us.

[Lawngodfather]

I have been using potassium chloride at $5.50 for a 50# bag and coverage of about 800 sq/ft.

So if a gallon would cover the same area, that would be cheaper.

Also durring a ice storm, the potassium almost trippples.

[Big Nate's Plowing]

Originally posted by River Hill
I have been looking into the same thing. I have found my cost for Caliber over $4.00 per gallon and that makes it not feasible for us.

how much are you taking at a time? I can buy it for $2.25 a gallon per drum but if I take 10 drums of the stuff it dropps down to <$1.75

[BRL]

LGF,
Also do a search in this forum, and I belive in the Sidewalk forum, as there of a couple of good detailed threads about liquid de-icers & walks.

[snowjoker]

A gallon of magic will cover 12-1500 square feet sparayed on.:D

[HerkFE]

We use Magic liquid as a pre-treater. I think when you review the searches about Magic and Caliber you will find that their strength is in the bonding/hardpack reduction. If you are using it on top of ice to melt it you might be slightly disappointed in the results as compared to throwing CaCl down, again temps play a factor. It will melt it, but you would need a larger quantity to accomplish that. If we do get build-up we hit it with treated salt. We figure about 1 gallon per 1000 sqft for spray on sidewalks. This is slightly higher than the 1 gallon per 1500 sqft that we shoot for when doing driving/parking areas. That is because the cars do a lot of the work of breaking up snow and tracking the liquid.

If you have your own tank and pick up the Magic or Caliber it would run you about $2 a gallon from us. Just some numbers for your consideration when evaluating. It sounds like your local distributor charges a little more than this area.

Good luck!

[Lawngodfather]

Don't know where to get it here yet, of course I have not looked hard. I am sure I can find it through some chemical company.

I know I have several options, and I think the same product may end up in the pre wet systems on the v boxes.

[Lawngodfather]

Originally posted by BRL
LGF,
Also do a search in this forum, and I belive in the Sidewalk forum, as there of a couple of good detailed threads about liquid de-icers & walks. I read the 2 long before I posted this, after you posted the quote above, I went back look for more and guess what, same 2 threads again....

So lets get some real detail here.;)

Why wouldn't liquid chalcium chloride melt snow?

I am not talking melting 3" just what the shovel or snowblower would leave behind, and the blowing snow.

Or in a sence, break up ice that has formed.

We spent a lot of time, and used excesive chemicals to get rid of the ice that built up on the walks.

[Crazygator]

Originally posted by Lawngodfather
We spent a lot of time, and used excesive chemicals to get rid of the ice that built up on the walks.

Just wondering if you did a pre-app? Looks like if you put your application ahead of the storm you would have less ice bonding or forming and aid in the clean up with shovels or whatever.

Or you could try and find a used flame thrower, haha :D

[Lawngodfather]

Yeah we did a pre app of potassium.

3 storms in 2 days.......Lots of product.

[HerkFE]

Well, like I said, it's power is in the prevention of bonding. Sure, you can spray it on leftovers from blowing, etc. but we find it more cost effective to hit those with a touch of treated salt.

As for ice that has formed I think you are better off with a treated granular than a spray, at least costwise. Just my opinion from our experience... Liquids will burn it off but they seem to need a higher application rate so the cost isn't favorable for us. Again, bonding prevention and reduction of build-up in the first place is their forte'.

We pre-treat before any storm. No bonding, less clean-up, and after hitting any residual precip with treated salt, drastically reduced re-freeze events unless it has been really wet/sleet type precip which dilutes any product.

[Mark Oomkes]

CaCL would work fine in a liquid form, it's just a little corrosive. Have you tried anything other than potassium? It's really not that good of an ice\snow melter. It's mostly just used as filler material in the blends that we have up here. We have been using Caliber salt here this year and have had the same results as Magic without the smell.

We have been using Caliber M1000 a little on sidewalks as an anti-icing and a de-icing product. We have used a lot of NC3000 as anti-icing and de-icing as well. The best results from liquids will come from using rotary brooms to clean the walks off. This way you get as little residual snow on them as possible. You also have to keep up on the removal end for liquids to work well.

The rates already mentioned are what we have been using as well.

[Snowboy]

How cost efective would it be to Pre Treat sidewlks? I spray the walkway before its going to snow, the snow wont bond to surface even with heavy foot traffic. During operating hours pathays are established and usualy try to keep them open with ice melt. Once the material stops working there is usualy some hardpack and it takes a good amount of material to get rid of it.

You think there would be a substancial reduction is material beeing used if the area was pre treated?

[Lawngodfather]

Were'nt you a few months ago asking about bidding cause you didn't have a clue on how to, not you have accounts and looking at pre-treating them?

To answer your question, yes pre treating will aid in the removal of that snow, even when packed down.

If no pre treat then have fun putting the labor in.

I am looking for better ways to treat all togeather and to cut back on labor.

When you have walks with lots of steps it's a pain in the behind to shovel them off, so liquid is what I am looking into.

NOw my question......

What's the active and inactive ingredients in Iceban, Caliber etc....

[gt_racer50]

Pretreating is great, however to use the product to melt ice is way to costly. You have to put down entirely to much product. As the product is working, it is also diluting and losing its effectiveness, hence, more product is needed.

[Lawngodfather]

Say you get 1" of ice that accumulated, how do you remove it then?

You have your pre treat down, do you chip it up or try to break it down some with the liquid?

I spent most of last night reading what I could find on liquid ice/snow melters, and many of the sites talked about melting snow/ice even after it had accumulated.

[Clean Cut Lawns]

lets add to this.

[Snowboy]

Originally posted by Lawngodfather
Were'nt you a few months ago asking about bidding cause you didn't have a clue on how to, not you have accounts and looking at pre-treating them?

Amazing isn’t it!?!?! It almost sounds like it’s a crime or something to you for one to quest for more knowledge and information. :argue

[Got Grass]

Pre treat walks with liquid. Then treat with a mix after ice has accumulated.
Pretreating liquid will help with bonding and start the process. A mix will help spread the liquid more evenly and be more (material) cost effective after the storm. You can pre treat all you want some ice will still accumulate. It's a matter of figuring out your costs of product vs. your shovel guys labor. Cheep material / High labor, treat like crazy. Costly material / Cheep labor = give your guys ice picks & hope they come back...
Pre-treat, the liquid will spread arround the pavement and help with hard pack. After accumulation liquid tends to burn straight down, gets diluted and useless. Mixing it with salt, the liquid will stay on top for a longer period and spread into the snow/ice as it melts it way through. Kinda like a time release type thing, as liquids are more dence & hit/absorb quicker into the pavement then resting on top in a mix.

[Lawngodfather]

What about bringing the chipping to a minimum...

Spray the liquid on the hard pack (been pretreated) to help loosing up anything that has bonded.

We all know once someone steps on a walk, or even drives on snow, it packs down, and is harder to move.

[AltaLawn]

TTT,

And to add a question..if this was answered above, I didn't catch it (this is post search too).

A supplier told this as an alternative to bagged Ice Melt (Potassium Chloride).. Use Calcium Chloride and mix with water..One 50Lb bag to 55 gallons of water. :confused:

I know this will be corrosive...any way to add an anti-corrosive?

When explaining this please go slow and use small words, LOL. We don't get a lot of winter fun here, so all this is really new to me.