Preping for court

[KenP]

Where to begin? Back in September I contracted with Popeyes Chicken for one of thier local stores to do snow removal. I used one of the contract templetes JA offers on his disc. I went over the contract and pointed everything out to the mananger, making sure he understood, what type of service we'd be providing. It snows 12/5/03 which was a real long, slow moving storm and again on 12/14/03. We had provided a lot of service and used a lot of material on this site, due to the fact that there's a train station near by and very high foot traffic, not to mention the length of the storm. The bill came to 4277.00. They offered me 2000.00, told me "I charge too much" and that if I sue them, which I intend on doing, "they will stone wall me and drag thier feet and that they don't respond well to pressure". They also tried to compare my services to another contractor who who charged 1,800 during the bilzzard last year. I told them that clearly my services weren't on the same level. So what to do now? I have called my attorney and I'm waiting to hear form her. It just pisses me off when someone dictates to me that "they're a large company and will pay what they want to pay" Spank my ass and call me Charlie, I'm ticked off! Thanks in advance for any thoughts you folks have.
:soapbox

[Mick]

Yes, they can drag it out. Unfortunately, it's to your lawyers advantage if they do (more letters and more time spent on the case, which they then bill you for). You need to decide right now whether to settle or dig in your heels for the long run.

I've been through similar when I built my house. I had everything in writing, they were clearly in the wrong (didn't deliver and install a fire place). This company just ignored letters demanding information, meetings etc. After a year, three lawyers and a lot of aggravation, I just dropped it rather than pursue the $2,000 the fireplace cost. By that time, I had spent over $1,000 on lawyers and was facing a cost of several more thousands even before I'd get into court.

[KenP]

I have considered this and I do have some money in it to foot the bill. My thoughts were small claims court, one letter attempting to get my money and then filing right away. It'll be a learning experience for me as well

[BWhite]

If small claims doesnt work can you take still take it to "regular court"?

[Lawn Lad]

Ken... are you still plowing for them? What is the balance up to?

Take payment for what they are offering you. Then write on the check, "not paid in full" when you endorse it. This leaves you open to go back and make a claim against the difference. Take what they will pay you and then at the end of the season you can go back after what they owe you.

If you don't think you'll get paid on your other invoices, then stop working for them now. Collect what you can negotiate nicely. Then sue them for the remainder.

You deserve to get paid for the work you did. For them to compare a storm last year to a storm this year is apples to oranges.

But, as Mick said, you also have to decide how hard you want to pursue them for the money, as it might cost you more in money to fight for the money they owe you on principal than what you stand to collect. Ultimately you will have to make a business decision.

If you hire an attorney who does collections regularly, they are used to charging on a contingency basis, typically 1/3 of the amount collected. If you can negotiate this with your attorney, then at least you know your costs are capped.

[KenP]

I stopped servicing the account as soon as they fell behind. I also had them sign a termanation of service letter that I drafted. The attorney is a friend of mine who'll do it for a nominal fee. I feel pretty strong about taking them to court for the simple principal of don't tell me what I can charge, tell your managers what you're will to pay. Had an employee of mine errored like theirs, I would pay the bill and resolve it internally not screw the guy who did the work!

[Got Grass]

Them saying you charge to much is BS. They signed the contract and agreed for you to provide service at $X ammount.

It's the same as is I called up the gas company & telling them they charge to much. How was I suposed to know it was going to be the coldest winter on record & I'm not going to pay up.
Or if I went over my min's on my cell phone they billed me at $.50 a min & I called up & said they charge to much.... they would say to damn bad you argeed to pay that much in the contract for anything over.



Then thse guys try pressuring you not to sue by intimidation?
BS

So the last guy only charged $1800 last year for the blizzard.
If they were so happy with this guys work and price then why the hell did they give the contract to you for this year.
Odviously it wasnt becasue he charged to much as they agreed for you to provide services at a highter rate. So they must not have been happy with his service. So they expect more of a service for the same cost at that guy? Yeah right... That guy may have dropped them for the same reasons. So odvisouly your not the one with the problem here... becided not getting payed of cource...


Have you tried contacting someone of a higher position outside of the local store?

[Crazygator]

Ken,

You have everything in writing. Its all spelled out, services to be done, pricing and all right? Then go after them. They are just trying to save some money based on bullying others this way in the past.

And the "drag our feet" comment, you make sure your attorney knows this and ask her when drawing up the complaint to enter a deadline as to when this has to be resolved, she will know what is fair or legal like 90 days or whatever or even a firm date like April 15 2004 etc..

Then if they do try to drag their feet you file other papers to show the court they did not follow through with the court ordered agreement and they will be contempt of court and in major trouble then.

Go get them and the money that you are justly owed!

[cat320]

Ken good for you I'm glad your pushing for court these big chain places think that they push the little guy around.Soon as you get a lawyer involved most will want to settle especially if it's for a small amont.But they will drag there feet in paying.We have had to deal with howard johnsons in the same way when they owed us money (not for plowing but other work).It was for like 2K but soon as we sent the registered letters stateing that if we did not recive payment we would turning it over to our attorney.we go payment right away.Not work there time and effort for a small amount. good luck

[ih82plow]

OK listen close here.

You dont want to go to a court with an attorney.Its more agravation then it worth.

Get a payment now what ever it is.then file in small claims court and represent your self.Hope fully the payment they give you compared to what is owed brings it down enough to ba able to deal with it in small claims court.How was the contract signed? Again I am not in the plowing buisness.But I am in a service buisness.

Is popies chicken a corprately owned company or is it a franchise? If its a franchise then collect what you can and sue the owner in small claims court.

If its a large corperation then you have to find out if the fellow who signed for the services to be performed is authorized to do so.I found this out the hard way we did a major installation for a large corperation and when it came time to get paid the corporation would not pay for the job.They explained how much it should cost and how much profit I should make and if I disagreeded they would pay nothing.I got paid from the coporation and then sued the operations manager for the difference between what I was paid and what I had quoted the job for. It was only luck that I had three seperate contracts because the job was done in phases that I was able to sue in small claims court for each phase I was short payed on had it all been one contract I would not have been able to go thru small claims I waould have had to hire an attourney.I sued 3 times and won three times. Each settlement payment was paid by the corperation.

Good luck and I have a lot to say on this to prepair a case email me and Ill give you a phone number to contact me.

Good Luck

And remember its all about business not princable or trying to prove point or teach some one a lesson.Recover what you can in small claims and send the rest to a HARD CORE collection agency.

[Landscaper 70]

I have been through the same thing and thats what I did and won. However, dont sign anything that says the payment you are taking is payment in full. The other thing you need to worry about is that if they want they can remove the case from small claims and go for a full trial but you have the ability to ask the judge to make them pay for your attorney fees it they do that.
Good Luck and keep us posted on what happens.

[landman]

That is why it is important to spell everything out. Our contract is 5 pages long and on the bottom of every page is a signature line this way if you ever go to court they can't say thats not in the contract, this way if they sign every page that acknowledges that it was part of the contract when it was originally signed, secondly we have a clause in our contract that states if a client doesn't pay we suspend services and persure collection "at full cost to the customer, including all attorney, collection, court, and administration fees and interest". We have the perfect example of this right now, we had a doctors office which we have been servicing for the past 4 years and this year they started pulling $h1t on us ($4700.00 bill) like you never showed up, our sidewalks weren't done etc, etc. Well 2 weeks ago we sent a certified letter (as stated in the contract) telling them service was cancelled due to non-payment including all the exact dates and times we serviced the property and then low and behold we got the signed slip back that they recieved the letter and the next day we had 9"of snow 3 days ago we were notified that we are being sued because somebody slipped and fell during that storm due to "your negligence and unprofessional service as you are obligated and bound to by your contract to our client",I gave it to my lawyer and now the good stuff is going to begin, my lawyer told me don't worry about it as soon as the doctors attorney is "enlightened" about the whole situation they will forget about it. I Hope!

[phillyplowking1]

Ken,is that the popeyes on Oxford Ave? If it is I remember,that Blizzard last year that place and the mcdonalds next to it wernt done for about a week after the storm.:rolleyes: So if they want to pay the cheaper price and get the cheaper service thats their problem.

[cat320]

Landman I would not see any problems especialy where you had spelled it out in your contracts and you have them sign every one plus you got a returned leter signed plus you sent it certified mail restateing your contract so you know they got it well before any storms.I think there attorney will sing a different tune when he reads all the paper work and if he doesn't he is a dumb one .I think alot of times when people hear laywer they wake up and let it go if it's B.S. beacuse it will cost well more than what they want to spend and the time it will take them to fight it.

[Crazygator]

Originally posted by ih82plow
OK listen close here.

You dont want to go to a court with an attorney.Its more agravation then it worth.

I have to strongly dissagree here. Been there done that and lost. Why?

If Ken shows up to represent himself (no offense to you Ken) and they bring an attorney most likely Ken will lose. They always seem to find that one thing you cannot explain correctly and make you look look like the bad guy. Get help and go after what is owed to you, plus you will be able to add in all cost associated with this case and be reimbursed.

If no lawyer you risk losing everything and getting paid nothing, plus all the time you spent as well.

Do this right, hire the lawyer and file in the proper court.

[Crazygator]

Posted twice. Sorry

[Pelican]

Ken, if I'm reading this right, you are owed $2277. In NY, the limit at small claims is $1500(or at least it was a couple years ago). You may be better off to seek this money in small claims without an attorney than the full amount in another court.

An added benefit in NY is if you are suing a commercial business, the award id twice what is owed if you win. So if you sue for $1500 and win, you'll be awarded $3000. Food for thought.

[chtucker]

Check into small claims... alot of the limits have been raised considerably. I won $6500 in small claims in Colorado last August.

It was like shootin the poop with Judge Wapner...

Howard

[pbeering]

Find out who the regional manager is at Popeye's and contact that person.

Explain the situation, and seek some help. Depending on outcome, try a demand letter. Then decide whether it is worth the hassle and time to litigate it.

Popeye's is a corporation who may have in-house lawyers to jack you around, or they may kick it outside. In any event they will engage in a variety of lawyerly investigations and will chew up time and money you may or may not have.

Discuss the pros and cons with your lawyer. Then make an informed decision.

In the end you may be better off to write it off, and not do the account. there have been a number of posts on this forum about behavior of some of these companies.

[digger242j]

In any event they will engage in a variety of lawyerly investigations and will chew up time and money you may or may not have.

As far as that goes, their lawyers don't work for free either. Do you have an attorney that can bluff them well enough to convince them that by the time it's all said and done it'll be cheaper for *them* to pay up, rather than spend their money fighting you?

[KenP]

Thanks for all the feed back fellas. I'll try to answer all the questions, but I'm a little pressed for time and the bride is looking to get out for the Valentines Day dinner. The total amout owed to me now is 4,722.00. Small claims court in Philadelphia, PA is up to 5,000. The attorney I intend on using is a close friends wife, so she'll work with me on the cost. It is the
Popeyes on Oxford Ave. This is a business decision to move toward court, but I'd be lying if I said my principals weren't weighing in on me. If I am nothing else I am a man of principals. I try to base every thing I do on being the best person I can be, for my family, my company, friends, Philadelphia Fire Department. I seldom make harsh decisions without looking at what, who and how my decision will effect. If a worker of mine did something like the Popeyes MGR. did I'd pay the bill and exit the contract and chew their ass, but that would be my problem not the contractor who did the work and is now waiting for his money. I expressed that to Popeyes and they could care less. I will have an attorney with me, if I goto court for support if nothing else. I have everything in writing, ie. signed contract with spelled out pricing service and terms, my signed termation letter and my invoices. I've also been keeping notes on all the phone conversations I've been having. Got to run I'll be BACK!!!!!!!!:cash

[T-Zab]

Hey Ken, your probally doing the right thing by going to court.
I was sued 2 years ago for 3900.00 dollars by an electrician that did not complete a project for me. I hired another electrician to complete the project. We both had attorneys and it did not make it to small claims court. He settled out of court. Give up on the principle thing (Im the same way it cost me an extra 700 hundred in legal fee's. ) Small claims court is cut and dry. Basically Waupners court. There is no jury or deliberating, judge decides boom done deal. If you lose your done, no appeals court. Case is settled. You will not be payed for services provided above and beyond (extra's) your contract. You will "NOT" be reimbursed for legal fee's unless it is stated in your contract. Basically I was the same as you Im not gonna be screwed over by some clown. Well he got 1300 and my attorney got 2500. Extra 700 because of my "principle" attitude. Get what you can, and go from there. Keep it short, and dont play games (Attorneys love that, they get about 200 an hour)
Todd

[gslam88]

guys,

It might be different where you at.. but here in Connecticut... if you go to small claims court.. limit of $3,500... and you win.. there is not guarantee that you can collect... so here I sit with a judgment of $3K.. that I can't get from the loser that won't pay her bill

So... check first on what recourse you have if the other party does not want to pay what you can do about it...

I am also now sitting here .. unpaid from a plowing subcontracting job that I was a sub in Dec. the management group of "John" from the Erie Pa area who also does not pay their bills and pulls back room under the table deals... wondering how to get paid from that job....


Using the better business bureau may or may not help... only if they are a BBB member is their anything to do to them...

Is their property owned by the business owner.. .or just the landlord... as this is a franchise ... what about a mechanics lien on the building ...

The other thing.. if someone from people court should find out about your case.. take it.. they will pay you on the spot... so you don’t have to wait to either not get paid or have them drag it out over time....

As I am writing this... I am think also...
The guy said that the storm last year he only charged $1800... however that is comparing apples to oranges in my opinion... 2 different storms.. length.. amount of snow... services provided

Also in case you need to discuss with the corp office what one of their franchisees is doing.. it may or may not help .. but here it is.

I would also ask him the question if a customer walked up and asked for a $30 order of food and then said... I will only pay $18 for it.. what would you say to that customer sir??? no money no food.. .so why should I accept any less from you...

Maybe a highlighted case for the local problem solvers .. aka the local news channel may force some pressure to him also.... and get you some free publicity also ....

food for thought... excuse the pun....



Pete


Popeyes® Chicken & Biscuits
Corporate Offices
5555 Glenridge Connector, NE, Suite 300
Atlanta, GA 30342
404-459-4450 or 1-800-222-5857

[phoenix827]

I can tell you 1st hand, if it is a court ordered payment in CT you can attach their pay, bank accounts, tax refunds, (state only I think) etc. etc. Trust me, It's a bit embarassing to have your HR person call you into her office to hand you a copy of the order and tell you you are now living on 20% of your paycheck!

Originally posted by gslam88
guys,

It might be different where you at.. but here in Connecticut... if you go to small claims court.. limit of $3,500... and you win.. there is not guarantee that you can collect... so here I sit with a judgment of $3K.. that I can't get from the loser that won't pay her bill

So... check first on what recourse you have if the other party does not want to pay what you can do about it...

[gslam88]

Phoenix,

The self employed, who claim to not make money on the books.... you can only attach the land... and if they don't sell ... you wait and wait and wait... no money in the bank.. nothing to attach....



Pete

[atgreene]

Mechanics leins tend to work well. Not sure of the laws there, but here you will eventually get the money. Just did one for $4200 and change for an excavating job that they now don't want to pay for. Closing is coming, hopefully so is my check.

The nice thing about a lien is that it dosen't go away untill settled. No loans, no legal transactions, no real estate changes etc... untill cleared up.

Good luck.

[T-Zab]

AtGreene,
The only bummer about mechanics leins are the fact they can bond around them. They just double the amount of the lein and then they can close. You also must renew the lein every year or you will lose your right to sue. So if its a big dispute over lack of performance or something along those lines, moral issues, some people would rather bond around the lein then pay.
Todd

[CPSS]

In NY, you can forclose on a lein.