Cummins cold start

[Mark Oomkes]

Need some help with my Cummins in my F800.

It's a '98 with a 5.9 B, no grid heater and only a block heater. Well, she doesn't like to start when it's below about 10* and it isn't getting better as it gets older.

Time for a new block heater?

Engine oil heater?

Flame thrower to warm the fuel?

I was thinking maybe some 5W40, but the manual says 15W40. Anybody offer opinions on that?

[chtucker]

The biggest change we have found is oil weight. The valvoline 5-40 is actually cummins approved, has a big cummin logo on the bottle. Its expensive though. I would just use the Rotella semi-syn 5w-40

Have you checked the resistance of the block heater? Maybe its just the cord or it is the whole shebang.. Short=failure.. You can also measure its current draw to see if it is functioning properly.

We have oil pan heaters, tranny pan heaters, block heaters, battery warmers, grid heaters, ether and a Webasto heater on the sno-cats...

The Webasto works best... but it is about $1400..

[Big Dog D]

The biggest change we have found is oil weight. The valvoline 5-40 is actually cummins approved, has a big cummin logo on the bottle. Its expensive though. I would just use the Rotella semi-syn 5w-40

Have you checked the resistance of the block heater? Maybe its just the cord or it is the whole shebang.. Short=failure.. You can also measure its current draw to see if it is functioning properly.

We have oil pan heaters, tranny pan heaters, block heaters, battery warmers, grid heaters, ether and a Webasto heater on the sno-cats...

The Webasto works best... but it is about $1400..

In that case he'll take 2. ;) :D

[Mark Oomkes]

In that case he'll take 2. ;) :D

You bet, since you're paying. :popcorn2

OK, I'll do some more research on oil weight. Doing a search on Webasto now, what is it?

[atgreene]

Doing a search on Webasto now, what is it?

A heater.:D

[Mark Oomkes]

A heater.:D

Thanks :cool:

Better buy one, our mole-face governor just told us we have to buy in Michigan.

Guess it'll be at a moving sale, since everyone is moving OUT of Michigan.

Do some checking with my Cummins dealer in the AM.

[Deere John]

Mark - When I go the the Esso bulk plant and ask for two cases of my favourite, Claude knows to come out with 0W-40. The grade is more important than the maker. I is spendy, but I use it year-round in everything except the Duramax anyway. The backhoe, welder, ATV's, garden tractor even, and my small fleet of generators all live on the stuff. I have no seasonality issues, and the spec sheet for that oil says that 100 degree celcius viscosity is slightly better than 15W-40. The Duramax uses it in the winter. This morning, it was -25 Celcius, and it started and gave oil pressure without a problem. I started using it 11 years ago, as I have to depend on the truck starting in the bush to get me home at night. -35 Celcius is the coldest I ever cold started it - it swore at me.

In your CTD case, 10 degrees is cool enough that you need a shot of heat somehow. My backhoe, with 0W-40 would be tough to fire off at that temp without electricity or the tiger torch and some stovepipe for 20 minutes. What is the rpm spec that the starter has to spin the engine at to get it to fire off? Probably 300+? That's where the lighter weight oil will help.

[John DiMartino]

5w40 full synthetic will be fine in the cummins yr round.As long as its API label has the C for its first letter(compression ignition),you should be good to go.Like was mentioned rotella syn is the cheapest 5w40,it will make a huge difference.

[Pickering Snow]

Well the flame thrower you could use has a last resort then call 811 three times then 911 :wink

[chtucker]

This is similar to the Webasto, the webasto website sucks.

http://www.espar.com/html/products/hydronic4.html

Diesel fired/12volt circulated coolant heater... No need for extension cords...

[John DiMartino]

If the lighter oil dont do it,theres always a whiff of ether:D.one little blast at my loaders air cleaner while cranking gets her firing,once it spins a few revolutions she runs on her own,a little shakey at first,but she runs.Beings you dont have grid heaters,there wont be any kaboom when you use it.just dont overdo it,a 3 second whiff is all mine needs.

[JD Dave]

A webasto is another small deisel engine that alot of truckers use for heat to keep there bunk and engine warm in the winter. They have timers on them so you can start them up 30 min before you want the truck to start and when you come out you can basically leave right away. You do not need one of these, when you have access to electricity. Block heaaters do not last forever, change it, put in 5w40 and if that doesn't work put a coolant heater in. JMO

[chtucker]

A webasto is another small deisel engine that alot of truckers use for heat to keep there bunk and engine warm in the winter. They have timers on them so you can start them up 30 min before you want the truck to start and when you come out you can basically leave right away. You do not need one of these, when you have access to electricity. Block heaaters do not last forever, change it, put in 5w40 and if that doesn't work put a coolant heater in. JMO

Never said he "needed" one... but through it out there as an option..

And the new ones are much more flexible. Our is set to come on every day 730 am and go for 1hr. We do have a battery charger on the cat to make up for that. They timer can go up to 120 minutes. A key fob remote is also available.

[Pelican]

We always used to drag 'em around the yard until they fired.....

[Mark Oomkes]

A webasto is another small deisel engine that alot of truckers use for heat to keep there bunk and engine warm in the winter. They have timers on them so you can start them up 30 min before you want the truck to start and when you come out you can basically leave right away. You do not need one of these, when you have access to electricity. Block heaaters do not last forever, change it, put in 5w40 and if that doesn't work put a coolant heater in. JMO

Thanks to everyone--except Alan and DJ. :cool:

I see there is one for Class 3-8 trucks. Might just be an option.

Sort of scared of the ether, John, I've heard rumors that once you start using it, they get addicted. Any truth to that?

We'll do an oil change and check the block heater. Never has liked real cold, but it's getting worse. But then again, the cold weather might be past, too. :rolleyes:

[apkole]

Mark,

Are they pre-heating that 5.9 with the grid (intake air) heaters like the Dodges? My '99 truck block heater went away last winter, and started down to the lowest temps no problem. Sometimes need to cycle the heaters twice, I've read, but no personal experience with that.

I did have Wayland replace the cord and block heater this year. At 200,000 miles and 10 years old, it was time . . . .

[Mark Oomkes]

Nothing on this one Andy, just cold fuel, cold air, lots of juice and some starter time.

Sort of like a carburated (sp?) engine. Pump the go pedal about 6 times, hold it to the floor and it helps greatly. Just not enough when it's cold.

[Pelican]

Sort of like a carburated (sp?) engine. Pump the go pedal about 6 times, hold it to the floor and it helps greatly.
This might be part of your problem. On a carburetored engine when you pump the pedal you're squirting gas into the intake manifold through the accelerator pump. This doesn't happen with a diesel. Before you start cranking, put the pedal to the floor and hold it there, this puts the maximum amount of fuel in the cylinders. Once it fires, release the pedal so you aren't high revving a cold motor.

Used in moderation, ether won't hurt a diesel nor addict it. It doesn't take much, just a little whiff to make the motor pop a couple times and put heat in the cylinders, then the diesel will burn. I've used either on occasion in diesels for 30 years and have never had one become addicted.

If your block heater is working, there really isn't any reason the truck shouldn't start easily, I'd verify that it's working before anything else. Lighter weight synthetic oil will help lengthen the life of your starter by allowing it to work less hard in severe cold. In windy weather, tarp the hood to the ground so the wind doesn't steal the heat from the block heater, or you could park it nose first tight to a building.

[John DiMartino]

Mark,make no mistake,ether will spike the cylinder pressure if you overdo it.Like Steve said moderation ,just a whiff while cranking.One of my accounts has 25+ box trucks with Cummins ISBs and 12Vs.I plow up empty ether cans when pushing snow whenever its below zero there:D.They dont plug in,and the run rotella 15w40.i ve seen those guys use a full can on only one or two poor little ISB's:eek:. None of them are used to it,or suffered yet.It isnt the preffered way to fire it off,but when you need it running,it will get it running everytime.Ive also heard it can split the liners in my loaders Detroit 4-71 too.But it hasnt happened to me yet.If you want to be kind to the motor,you can always pull the intake boot off,and stick a lit propane torch down the intake,wait about 20 seconds,and light it off,the hot air will really help it start up ,but that requires pulling the turbo boot,not something Id want to do.You can always buy a dodge grid heater setup,probably find them cheap,and wire the HD relays to a momentary push button in the cab,push it for 15 seconds,and it should light right off,then cycle it on/ off for another minute in blips to really smooth it out quickly.I bet you can adapt a Dodge setup for a few hundred $ at the most.Maybe next to nothing,depends on what you find used,and how hard to adapt the Dodge air horn to your inlet.
When I got my first cummins I didn't think the grid heaters had much value since it started so easy without them 340 days of the yr,and no one else used them,just Dodge.But ive grown to love them.I know its a little colder by you,but I've never had my dodges not start,even this am my dads CTD truck started second try at -4 with the remote start,which is set on timed start,it only cranks like 3/4 of a second,and stops,2nd try it lit.( I dont like remote starters),but he still uses his. The webasto and espar units are very nice,but so expensive,I dont think they make sense for an older truck in most cases.
Just do the 5w40 full synthetic first,and you will be amazed at the difference,it may be all you need.

[Pickering Snow]

Many OTR trucks use to have along with heavy equipment starting fluid injector bottles in the cab , like Johnny and Steve said a puff is all it takes to get heat in the cylinders . Old Two Stoke Detroits in the army needed a huff:D, the truth was for any miltary guys here anyone caught using starting fluid would get a article 15 loss of pay grade and fine.

Cold start process in the army was starting all of our combat tracks, tanks, and service vech's every 2 hrs 24 hrs a day. Has a mechanic i always new on the V6 Detroits when they used starting fluid has the fluid would cause the supercharger to snap the quill shaft once the shaft breaks alots of white smoke no start. The 12 cylinder Air cooler 1900hp M60 engines needed either a huff or alot of starting and running. Hardest engine to start cold in the army was my V-8 Detroit turbocharged/supercharged recovery track when that thing ran right it screamed sometime soon iam suppose to get some pics back i took to convert to cd of this Track with me driving it threw towns in Germany many of the pics you will see flames coming out of the pipe see even then i couldnt leave anything alone even though the pumps were locked with wired bolts, my dad had taught me how to lace wire bolts....:D