Bag salt yourself?

[Mustang]

Anyone ever buy bulk salt and bag it themselves? Anyone see any problems in doing this?

[Mick]

I looked into it last Summer. The plan was to buy heavy "bags on a roll" and a sealer. If I remember right, the biggest problem was the expense of the sealer. You would also want to be careful of the moisture content before you seal it.

[Mustang]

Is there some way to gauge the moisture content? What about heavy wire ties for the top?

[Mick]

The pin type moisture meter will probably be best for your needs:
http://inspectortools.com/pinmoismet.html
They're what I was considering, but haven't actually tried using one to measure moisture in salt.

As for ties, I suppose you could but you'd want to store the bags in a cool, dry place to prevent moisture absorption. Another problem would be the possibility of the ties slipping off.

[snowjoker]

I think I am going to bag salt and sell it nevt season. Here is what i found for bags and bag sealers. http://www.uline.com/Browse_Listing_117.asp

[JustUsDe]

I was thinking of bagging some late this summer or fall when its real dry. Walt what made you pick 8mil? A guess or you know it is strong enough. Also what size bag were you thinking of? I looked at the sealers they don't seam too exspensive considering what we all put out in bagged salt.


Ray

[snowjoker]

Ray, 8 mil is the heaviest they carry. I think it would be heavy enough for 50 pounds of salt. I was thinking the 18x24 bag size should be about 50 pounds.

[Mick]

I was considering the bags specific for salt/sand:
http://www.uline.com/Browse_Listing_5565.asp

As for sealers, you could get a wide price range. Of course the one I was looking at was the most expensive:grinz
http://www.uline.com/AdvSearchResult.asp?view=ALL&SubGroup=2252&Source=01&BrowseGroup=46&Method=BROWSE

[JustUsDe]

Thanks Walt. I think those bags as long as they can hold the weight would be better than the ones Mick has posted. Mick the ones you have posted are not water tight and I would be afraid that it wouldnt take much moisture to get the the salt real wet. I like the other bags they are more like what I buy and they have gotton wet several times and the salt stayed dry.
As far as the sealer goes my first impression was that I liked the same one as you but after thinking about it I think a hand held would be easier on the back. You can move the sealer to the bag instead of the bag to the sealer. For the price I pay for a pallet it would make sense to try and bag my own.

Ray

[Mick]

Ray, after I thought about it, I'd have to agree with you about the handheld vs upright sealer. I use sand and don't need bags for the Vbox. I was thinking of it for bagging & selling Magic Salt using bulk salt. The hand held may be better in that situation, too, as well as cheaper.

I'd still wonder if 8 mil is strong enough, but they show it holding a portable saw.

Hmmm.

[Lawn Lad]

Just a thought... if you're bagging them yourself it doesn't matter a whole lot if you vary a 5 lbs on either side of your 50 lb goal weight. However, if you sell the bags, you may have some issues about having a certified scale to sell product by weight. I'm sure various state/county laws vary on this matter, but something worth considering. Certifying the scale is difficult, but you'll have to weigh each bag which will slow the process down since most of the bagging will be by hand at this scale and not automated. seems like a good idea for personal stock. Much like splitting your own fire wood in the off season.

[wyldman]

Usually if you sell "per bag",then they do not have to be exact.If you sell "per 50lb bag",or by weight,then it it must be exact.

That may explain why a lot of the places that sell bulk materials sell it by the yard,and not by the ton.

[BRL]

"That may explain why a lot of the places that sell bulk materials sell it by the yard,and not by the ton."

Exactly. Any place selling by the ton has a scale, an expensive license for the scale, and the scale gets inspected & calibrated by some government bureaucratic entity once or more per year. I have seen bagged materials sold by the area it takes up, and by weight, but never by "the bag". So Lawn Lad may be right, if you plan to sell these bags, you probably have to deal with official weights or measurements issues. And you are probably not going to sell enough to be worth the expense & hassle of that I would bet. The manufacturers selling the bags for those high prices are selling many thousands of bags a year.

[Mustang]

Could you just leave the lb. weight out of it? Instead of a 50 lb. bag call it #1 bag.

[Mick]

So far, exact weight has not been an issue. But up here, things are a little different (as in lax). What I have been doing is selling by the pound. But say someone wants 25 pounds. I make sure they get AT LEAST 25 pounds, using a known 25# weight to check my scale.

I guess if someone wants to come in and make an issue of it, I'll just deal with it at the time.

[JCurtis]

I also know someone who is considering bagging their own salt. I for the life of me cannot figure out why?

By the time you buy the necessary equipment and supplies, plus the labor to actually bag it, where can you make any profit?

I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid... If you can show me the profit potential then maybe you can sway me over to the side of bagging your own.

I just think that there are other ways to make a profit or increase your profit margin .... anyone want to show me the light?

:confused:

[Mick]

Jeff, for what I do, it makes perfect sense. But I'm not bagging it to put through a spreader.

Jeff and I are tied for # of posts and this is a blatant attempt to stay in the lead, but the way he's been going lately I may get banned first for making "irrelevant posts".

[BRL]

"I for the life of me cannot figure out why?"

I'm with you Jeff. I think I'm hearing the theme here of people getting their own salt supply using much cheaper bulk salt, rather than paying the higher price for already bagged material.

"But I'm not bagging it to put through a spreader."

Now in Mick's case I could understand it. But the process of making the bulk salt the same quality as the bagged salt - meaning specifically that it will work in the single stage tailgate spreaders like factory bagged salt does- does not seem like a hassle worth trying. You can't just shovel your pile of bulk salt into bags I believe. When the bags get opened in the winter they will be in the same single stage spreader usless quality that the bulk originally arrived in. I believe there are serious moisture content, and breaking up of the clumps issues that they monitor & correct before bagging. The only way I see to do that is to take the bulk pile and break it up & spread it over a large area of clean pavement or concrete area, allow it to dry for however long required, then start this bagging process. I can't see that time, cost & effort being worth just buying it already bagged & ready to use. I'd rather be doing my off season work & generating income than trying to save a buck or a couple of hundred bucks on something I can already purchase ready to go. But maybe I'm missing something here? :beatsme

[wyldman]

I could see a market for it,especially right now with all the salt shortages.

If you have the room,and the equipment,it would be too bad.Treating the salt would probably help protect it from clumping or freezing as much.

If you get the bulk cheap,lets say $40 a ton,and treat it with $6.00 worth of Magic,or Caliber,your cost is $46.00 a ton.Add a few bucks for bags and ties.

Sell it at $5.00 for a 50 lb bag,thats $200.00 gross per ton.Net profit of over $150 per ton.If you had a decent client base,and could turn over a few skids per storm per client,you could make a decent buck doing it.If you could move 10 ton per storm,thats $1500.00.

A homebuilt bagger (hopper with a feed gate) could be made to help bag it easily,and you could treat the salt right in the hopper.I know of a lot of garden centers,and landscape suppliers that do the same thing with gravel,limestone,topsoil,etc,and make a pretty penny doing it.

[snowjoker]

Don't forget you can also bag different materials other than salt for profit. Mulch, wood chips, leaves etc...........

[CPSS]

Originally posted by JCurtis
I also know someone who is considering bagging their own salt. I for the life of me cannot figure out why?

By the time you buy the necessary equipment and supplies, plus the labor to actually bag it, where can you make any profit?

:confused:

I paid ( at the begining of the winter), $48 per ton. Thats $.024 per pound, or $1.20 per 50 pound bag. You could sell it for $5 per bag fairly easy. 40 bags per ton = $200-$48= $152 per ton gross profit.

[JCurtis]

The question is what is the actual cost in material, equipment and labor to actually bag the salt?

I can think of alot of ways to make a profit of $150-$200 or more on jobs that wouldnt require any additional expenditures.

I am not saying one shouldn't do it, I am just suggesting that the related costs should be carefully looked into.

[snowjoker]

Don't forget to figure in the cost of the bags, time and bag sealer. But still i think you could gross around $100 per ton

[Ohiosnow]

I paid ( at the begining of the winter), $48 per ton. Thats $.024 per pound, or $1.20 per 50 pound bag. You could sell it for $5 per bag fairly easy. 40 bags per ton = $200-$48= $152 per ton gross profit.

Wow I can buy 50# bags (skid price) for $2.49 per bag or $2.79-1 bag at a time :eek: Not enough profit to waste my time bagging salt ;) I guess if you had nothing else to do you could make a little :cash profit but for me, it wouldn't be worth it ;)

[BRL]

So if you figure 100 bucks per ton including salt & materials & overhead for equip purchase. How long will it take to receive the salt, prepare the salt for bagging, actually fill & seal 40 bags, stack & store those bags somewhere (assuming you're not spending the thousands of dollars for the set up the manufacturers use to do it high volume, quickly & efficiently)? Now you got that part done, now you have to have a place to sell from, find potential customers, covince them to buy yours (and give them their desired guarantee of a relatively steady supply?), and then spend time dealing with making the transaction (loading or delivering the salt, invoicing, receivables, etc.). Now how much of that $100.00 is left in your pocket? $10.00\hour of effort? $20.00\hr? $30.00\hour? Still doesn't seem worth it using CPSS's numbers. But here my per ton cost would be closer to $65\ton or so.

I just saw wyldman's post now. Maybe this would work if you have a big operation, lots of employees, and the property to store & work on. But for the smaller guys, how would they take care of supplying 10 tons of salt during storms while still handling their own snow & ice ops? Let alone have the time to bag 10 tons between storms (or if storage is available I guess 60 or 70 tons could be bagged up in the summer or fall?)? Still doesn't seem worth it to me, but I could definitely see a wholesale or retail materials supplier doing so & being worth it for that type of business.

[urethane dino]

Speaking from a magic standpoint, bagged magic is reselling for about 15.00 a 50# bag right now. So buying bulk treated at even 100.00 a ton would give you a gross profit of 380.00 per ton reselling at 12.00 per 50#. What I dont know is how long it would take to bag seal store and deliver the goods.
Dino

[Mark Oomkes]

I agree with Bill, for us it wouldn't be feasible for us to bag our own. It is this same reason why we don't treat our own salt with Magic\Caliber\etc. We get 50+ ton loads at a time, and we might not be there to push it in and we might spread it before we would even have the time to treat it.

This is going to be different for everybody, but I don't see my work as bagging or treating salt. My work is snow & ice management. I am going to focus on what our core business is and where our expertise is.

[cmerland]

Im with Bill and Mark also on the issue of bagging salt for resale could possibly turn out profitable. Hell I hate having too much product left over in my garage at the end of each season, as thats a few hundred to a few thousand bucks thats sitting there instead of in my bank account.

However, if you are going to pursue this and bag and sell product, Id almost bet that you will have to get a certified scale inspected by the state, and re-inspected at regular intervals, to make sure that your not underpackaging the product. Putting in 45 lbs instead of 50 due to an out of whack scale would bring down a wrath of legal crap on your head from the division of weights and measures. Its one thing to bag it for your own use but anytime you sell product there is always a bunch of legal hoops to jump through that may need to be investigated prior to beginning operations.

[Daniel Cummings]

Just an idea but we stripe parking lots in the summer and always end up with a bunch of 5 gallon buckets i would say at least 50# of salt would fit and you would not need a bagger or a sealer and you could reuse them just a thought we used to do it, it just got to be to much work after a long night of plowing and salting to come back to the shop and have to load 250 bucketts in case a snow happend the next night but hey to each his own.

[Mick]

Yes, a five gallon bucket filled to about an inch below the rim with Magic -0 treated rock salt will weigh 50 pounds.

Are the buckets clean and dry? That's the main problem I have. Typically, buckets initially contain a petroleum-based product that make them unusable. The other problem is lids, which are usually missing by the time I get them or not resealable.

I'm always looking for clean, dry 3 and 5 gallon buckets with lids. The ones you get from Home Depot are really too flimsy, not to mention too costly to be practical for my purpose.

[bud16415]

I just had a chance to read thru this thread for the first time today. Thanks for bringing it back up.

What you have to be careful with in these ventures is not to do like the guy that was driving his pickup truck from Pennsylvania to Florida in the winter and buying watermelons for 50 cents each and then hauling them back north and selling them 2 for a dollar. When I asked him if he knew why he wasn’t making any money at this he thought a while and said “I think I need a bigger truck”

The places that bag bulk material do it in huge quantities and sell at low profit margins in most cases. When a consumer goes to the hardware store and buys a 50 pound bag of rock salt most of what he’s paying is for service, shipping, inventory, the distribution network, packaging etc. they could give you the salt for free.

I’m not saying that in some form you couldn’t make money doing this. But I think the scale you would have to be at would be fairly large before it would really pay. IMO

Interesting read. It’s been over year that this first was posted has anyone been working on this? Just wondering

Bud

[KenP]

:salute Maybe I missed this in the thread, but why would you want to bag bulk salt if you have a bulk spreader? I use between 75 and 100 tractor trailer loads of bagged product per year and have found that most (not all) of the tailgate spreaders will not be able to handle the size of the bulk salt. To me it seems like tripping over dollars to pick up nickles. Just my $0.02