GM not selling to Navistar

[William B.]

http://www.mlive.com/flintjournal/business/index.ssf/2008/08/gm_wont_sell_mediumduty_commer.html

[Pickering Snow]

Well short of rolling up the side walks in Flint those 500 jobs spared just enforces why the 5500 series is still on shaky ground.

Duane is part of the peanut gallery that cost Flint the US Honda plant you have people standing on the streets of what once was the heart and soul of GM with signs will work for food and yet the UAW scared the Japs right out of Flint with property and buildings it would have been a short transison for Honda to fire off 25dollar a hour jobs but NOPE gotta have union rep in a dieing town still. It pains me to see this blow hard in the news with Buick City gone, GM powertrain, and what once was Delco a company now turned into AC I DANO any more since i couldnt tell you who the hell is making AC Delco parts anymore and iam in the industry. Delco now outsourced to every whore that will build parts south of the boarder and overseas make that good ole blue, white, red a sore spot for many shops and owners who once proudly installed those parts.

Ill tell ya right now i dont fear much in life any more i have walked threw the vally of the shadow of death , been shot at repoing, but i even get one hand on the Kimber driving threw that sewer hole.

Sorry for the rant but if you guys only knew who the 500 were building your 55's you might not be so brand loyal.

[cat320]

Well not to get off this topic i will say it here because i do belive it has something to do with what is going on.

Ok my uncle used to buy Buick Riviers(spelling) just about every 2 years and every time he got a new one the same quality issues wrong and so forth. I think between the unions and big bussiness they are slowly killing this country well up near Fred it's seams to already be that way near those big plant towns. No wounder the foriegn cars kciked our ass they do it cheaper and they put there heart into it well maybe not that but every car that went out was quality . well alot more than any car we made. The trucks the same way . They outsource all those crappy places to build parts alot cheaper but still come here and charge top dollar for them???

So maybe i'm very wrong but if the unions and big bussiness could just play like good little boys and girls we probably would not be in the mess we are in today. before union would say strike and they would get nervouse but today they pretty much think ok we go out of bussiness or outsource it out of the us. no one wins but china,indea koriea and so on. Well enough of my dumb insite on this didn't mean to take it away from the denouncing of internationals plan to buy the med duty gm line .

[Pickering Snow]

And my point was Flint could have rosen from the ashes with decent paying jobs again building american made Hondas , but the truth is Niether Honda or Toyota both willing to invest in the american working stiff still want nothing to do with unions.

You dont see China wanting to do any free trade its all about them and thats it.

[Wizard]

Surprise, surprise, GM's labor union gets in the way of it doing business... Again... :rolleyes:

[Joey D]

If GM has to endure the Union in Detroit, so should Honda. It's not that I am pro union either. Unions are a double edge sword, we would be working in unsafe conditions for peanuts if they were not around, but now they are a business who looks out for them not the American worker.
I don't want to see Toyota or any other foriegn company coming here and getting an advantage over an American company

[Pickering Snow]

If GM has to endure the Union in Detroit, so should Honda. It's not that I am pro union either. Unions are a double edge sword, we would be working in unsafe conditions for peanuts if they were not around, but now they are a business who looks out for them not the American worker.
I don't want to see Toyota or any other foriegn company coming here and getting an advantage over an American company

Joey

I would agree with that until GM cleared out Flint to move plants out of the US , If you read on how Honda and Toyota run there american operations safty wise they rank the highest of industry. My point with Honda coming to Flint was when all that was left was empty buildings there was a chance at least for the people of Flint to work again Honda just didnt want to work with the unions, There ability to produce or want to build in the US to me was a step forward since more companys are leaving that coming.

Work Ethics and i know this wont settle well with some is you cant punch a time clock for 35 dollars a hour, and a 8hour shift Bitch for 4 and work the other 4 that is what the two companys didnt want to deal with. Iam sure the people in Indy and Oh dont mind having a steady job i havent heard much complaining from the US Toyo or Honda plants down there.

With the US in the shape its in wouldnt it be nice for a change to see jobs come back here? I try to stay neutral on unions since two of my brothers would hang me from a tree but i belive the biggest reason american companys shift there operations overseas is yup cheap labor but no unions.

If any of the Big three go down here anytime soon blame could be shifted all over the place from building gas guslers to increase costs but in all three cases the union monkey on there back is helping to sink them as well.

[Mark Oomkes]

Yes, the UAW screwed the pooch on that deal. Toyo (IIRC) was just about to pull the trigger and build or use an empty plant here in MI. They were in MI at the Detroit Auto Show and the union leaders from GM begged the membership not to go, but we had some a-hole chapter president from here in W MI go down with a bunch of goons and start picketing out front and BAM goes the Toyo deal. The bigwigs from Toyo couldn't get out of MI fast enough.

Pretty much screwed any chance of any of the Jap automakers ever building here in the former auto capital of the world.

[cat320]

It's too bad the union is thinking more like a bussiness than what it was really there for to protect the american worker.Oh they do but at what price. Fred I think summed it up nicely 4 hors of work and 4 hours of Bitching and not thing one the co can do about it. I know if any one on this site had employees that did less work than the boss then they would be gone well the only way the big co's can do that is to send work out .unions yes we did need them still do but not the way they run it today .The heads of the local shops have highe pay than the president of the usa? . My brotherin law is in the union and I see the crap that they do and i also have seen what they do to others.IE you want to work today you better go hold a sign for some one who you do not even like in the presidential race or you will not work) I know that many will say hey they are doing it for the better of the union brothers I'm thinking it is to help them be better off and keep there jobs and high pay.

I know i will get slack on this but i have had to work with union guys on the job me being self employed and them being on the clock and they could care less on how fast work gets done if it get done and when the bell rings to go how they are off before it finishes even if it ment a min more to finish.

Oh and most of that $35 an hour goes into the union for dues and other crap so I would not belive that they are sitting high off the hog by the time they get done paying the union for the right to work.

[Joey D]

Joey

I would agree with that until GM cleared out Flint to move plants out of the US , If you read on how Honda and Toyota run there american operations safty wise they rank the highest of industry. My point with Honda coming to Flint was when all that was left was empty buildings there was a chance at least for the people of Flint to work again Honda just didnt want to work with the unions, There ability to produce or want to build in the US to me was a step forward since more companys are leaving that coming.

Work Ethics and i know this wont settle well with some is you cant punch a time clock for 35 dollars a hour, and a 8hour shift Bitch for 4 and work the other 4 that is what the two companys didnt want to deal with. Iam sure the people in Indy and Oh dont mind having a steady job i havent heard much complaining from the US Toyo or Honda plants down there.

With the US in the shape its in wouldnt it be nice for a change to see jobs come back here? I try to stay neutral on unions since two of my brothers would hang me from a tree but i belive the biggest reason american companys shift there operations overseas is yup cheap labor but no unions.

If any of the Big three go down here anytime soon blame could be shifted all over the place from building gas guslers to increase costs but in all three cases the union monkey on there back is helping to sink them as well.

Why does GM have to use the union and toyota and honda do not? With the way the country is I bet GM could find workers if they just didn't renew union contracts but still paid a decent wage with 50% paid health care.
What would you guys consider a decent wage for a factory worker?

[Pelican]

Unions are a double edge sword, we would be working in unsafe conditions for peanuts if they were not around, but now they are a business who looks out for them not the American worker.
That may have been the case back in the 30s, but today we have OSHA, they regulate working conditions as well as any union ever has. In today's labor market, any employee who produces his worth will be paid accordingly. It just makes business sense. In my opinion, unions have succeeded in trashing the American work ethic. Any union member will make the same money as the guy next to him, whether he produces any work or not. The purpose of unions today has become to extort money from companies to keep the fat cats at the head of the union the fat cats at the head of the union.

[JMac]

What would you guys consider a decent wage for a factory worker?
If it is unskilled labor, then tops should be no more than 15 an hour. It it is skilled labor, then I dont see why they should not earn in the 20's an hour. Labor costs must kill the poor co's who have the union workers. Its too bad the consumers end up paying for it all in the end anyways.

[Chuck Smith]

I watched union pipefitters in action for 2 months. The job should have taken a month, tops. I couldn't stand watching them. Welders weld, they do not grind their welds. Laborers chip, grind, and brush the welds :rolleyes: The master whatever basically walked around all day smoking his pipe, getting $56 an hour, of which about 1/2 went to the union. Welders can only do a certain amount of welding in a day, I think it was 36" of weld. There was a 1 hour firewatch at the end of every day in a steel building under construction, with concrete floors?

When I was in the Operating Engineers for 5 years, at first my dues were $13 a month. They held a vote to make dues more fair, made it sound like we would be paying less. The change passed a vote, and then they took 3% of my pay, all of it, OT, foul weather gear stipend, safety shoe stipend, boiler license stipend, all of it. Glad I got out. They got us lousy raises, gave back benefits, and were never around unless there was a problem, and even then it was hard to get them there.

I had an Uncle that was a union rep for IBEW for 30 years. He always had a brand new black Caddy to drive. He pulled a pension for 30 years from them too. After he retired he had a Caddy AND a Lincoln. :rolleyes:

~Chuck

[Pickering Snow]

Like Jmac said on wages 15 for non skilled 25 range for skilled thats what Honda was listing for there proposed plant until they got scared off.

Now keep in mind we have people trying to keep there house, car, etc in Flint and the unions speaking for them . Had a tech a few years back leave then come back from the old Plant 6 Steering gear he quit because of multiy reasons one being he was installing Tilt pins in a colum for 8 hrs a day boredom i belive was he main reason the union trick the other.

The guy that has lived across the street from me for 21 yrs worked for plant 3 installing Sir clips on CV axles for 8 hours at a time he retired at 41.50 a hour now is that skilled labor?

Chuck talks about Union welders, since i know he doesnt read here ill say it one of my brothers is a union welder for many years working Nuke Shut downs
To this day he wont and i think its because he cant weld Tig or mig if it isnt Scratch welding then to him it isnt welding. His life has been 50 percent on the road working the union only says you sign the books doesnt say were you will work, my brother Oscar did this has a Electrian and has finally retired after years of road work, unemployment, i have watched both of them get so close to loosing everything only to give in and work the road. And what Chuck says about how they work is spot on i love both of my brothers however when i need electrical work i hire it done iam not chasing him around picking up his mess because he had someone do it for his whole life, and my other brother well i have chipped slag in a long time i sure the hell am not gonna start now.

[Mark Oomkes]

What would you guys consider a decent wage for a factory worker?

Whatever the market will bear. And right now it isn't $20 or $25 an hour. I'd bet it's closer to $12 an hour.

Like Fred stated, most factory people would be happy with a $10 an hour line job right now. But those aren't even left anymore.

[JD Dave]

Interesting read, I really don't know very much about unions. Kind of depressing really. I really didn't know Michigan was in such bad shape.

[Mark Oomkes]

Interesting read, I really don't know very much about unions. Kind of depressing really. I really didn't know Michigan was in such bad shape.

Mostly thanks to that mole face you let move to MI. :grinz :grinz :eek:

Highest unemployment in the nation for at least a year, we were in a 1 state recession for the longest time, now we've been joined by 3 others while the economy is growing (slowly, but growing) in the rest of the state.

From now on, please keep your moles in Canada.

[Pickering Snow]

Interesting read, I really don't know very much about unions. Kind of depressing really. I really didn't know Michigan was in such bad shape.

Dave

Like Mark said its been some tough times in certain parts of Mi Midland for now seems to be semi protected with Dow chemical and Dow Corning but that all can change in a heart beat with Dow needing Petro to produce much of there products. Corning is probley the shining star they emerged from Chapter 11 stronger than ever the Boob deal that caused them to File later is proven to be trumped up, they are expanding there semi conductor operation big time and honesly i could see them surpassing Dow Chemical in sales this year.

A good portion of the rest of the state releyed on the Auto industry which is in the crapper so i feel greatful to live here.
\

Oh ya and please keep your Moles in Canada..:D

[JD Dave]

Dave

Like Mark said its been some tough times in certain parts of Mi Midland for now seems to be semi protected with Dow chemical and Dow Corning but that all can change in a heart beat with Dow needing Petro to produce much of there products. Corning is probley the shining star they emerged from Chapter 11 stronger than ever the Boob deal that caused them to File later is proven to be trumped up, they are expanding there semi conductor operation big time and honesly i could see them surpassing Dow Chemical in sales this year.

A good portion of the rest of the state releyed on the Auto industry which is in the crapper so i feel greatful to live here.
\

Oh ya and please keep your Moles in Canada..:D

I feel stupid for asking but I don't know who the heck this Mole is, your talking about.

[Mark Oomkes]

I feel stupid for asking but I don't know who the heck this Mole is, your talking about.

Jennifer Grandmole. (actually its Granholm, but she's got some big, ugly moles on her face and she's originally from Canada) She learned her socialism lessons well while there and is trying to import them here to MI. And beyond that, she's been the most worthless leader since Jim Blanchard and they're in a close tie as to who's been the worst guv.

[JD Dave]

Jennifer Grandmole. (actually its Granholm, but she's got some big, ugly moles on her face and she's originally from Canada) She learned her socialism lessons well while there and is trying to import them here to MI. And beyond that, she's been the most worthless leader since Jim Blanchard and they're in a close tie as to who's been the worst guv.

Hmm, never even heard of her. I do agree you wouldn't want to bring the way we do things here, to the US.:rolleyes: Thanks for explaining it to me.

[Wizard]

Hmm, never even heard of her. I do agree you wouldn't want to bring the way we do things here, to the US.:rolleyes: Thanks for explaining it to me.

Man, if only we could even it up... I mean, MI got stuck with granmole, it's only right that we'd send brocko up there, he'd fit right in with the socialist mentaility, right... :wink

[JD Dave]

I'm not quite sure if I like you guys calling me a socialist and I have no idea why. I guess this goes back to, some opinions are just a little browner then others. have a good one.

[Mark Oomkes]

I'm not quite sure if I like you guys calling me a socialist and I have no idea why. I guess this goes back to, some opinions are just a little browner then others. have a good one.

I'm not calling you a socialist Dave. I'm calling Canada socialist. At least more so than the US, as of now anyways.

[Wizard]

I'm not calling you a socialist Dave. I'm calling Canada socialist. At least more so than the US, as of now anyways.

Ditto, wasn't trying to offend, my appologies. :o

Just the conservative side of me on boil after spending the day walking around the state fair amongst a bunch of liberal nut jobs wearing Obama stickers... :mad:

[GMC Driver]

I'll speak for myself, and although I have never met JD Dave, I have a feeling he may be in the same mindset as myself - we might have socialist policies, and a liberal moral scope up here in Canada, but don't be so quick to write us all off. We bleed blue in my house - that's the right (meaning correct and non-left) colour around here.

As much as I would love to change things with Canada's moral mindset, I can honestly say I still love my country, and feel blessed to be able to work, play, and worship in freedom. I can only hope and pray that all of our children, grandchildren, and great-granchildren can enjoy the same freedoms. The way things look now, those freedoms could very well be in jepoardy in years to come, without worrying about the pressures of what's happening on the other side of the planet. By that I mean the moral decay in our own societies is a serious threat to ensuring these freedoms - I still believe in the idea of battling terrorists on their soil, and support our troops.



On edit: I thought I might reply to this thread at some point, just never thought it would take this turn!!

[JD Dave]

Ditto, wasn't trying to offend, my appologies. :o

Just the conservative side of me on boil after spending the day walking around the state fair amongst a bunch of liberal nut jobs wearing Obama stickers... :mad:

OK guys, I didn't think you were talking about me directly but I do live in Canada and pretty damn proud of it. On a side note, what's wrong with Obama. LOL

[JD Dave]

I'll speak for myself, and although I have never met JD Dave, I have a feeling he may be in the same mindset as myself - we might have socialist policies, and a liberal moral scope up here in Canada, but don't be so quick to write us all off. We bleed blue in my house - that's the right (meaning correct and non-left) colour around here.

As much as I would love to change things with Canada's moral mindset, I can honestly say I still love my country, and feel blessed to be able to work, play, and worship in freedom. I can only hope and pray that all of our children, grandchildren, and great-granchildren can enjoy the same freedoms. The way things look now, those freedoms could very well be in jepoardy in years to come, without worrying about the pressures of what's happening on the other side of the planet. By that I mean the moral decay in our own societies is a serious threat to ensuring these freedoms - I still believe in the idea of battling terrorists on their soil, and support our troops.



On edit: I thought I might reply to this thread at some point, just never thought it would take this turn!!

I agree completly.

[GMC Driver]

Mostly thanks to that mole face you let move to MI. :grinz :grinz :eek:


From now on, please keep your moles in Canada.


Aren't moles Duty Free?!?

It wouldn't hurt to tighten up the border - for both our sakes!! I'm pretty sure she got chased out of here. And we have little requirement to add to our melting pot society, we already have good representation of visible minorities in our government. Some may even say :wink that thankfully, none of them have had aspirations to seek a leadership role. We have had leaders of audible minority - most of them have hailed from Quebec.

[PSDF350]

Well short of rolling up the side walks in Flint those 500 jobs spared just enforces why the 5500 series is still on shaky ground. I have been pricing f550 and sterling bullit 5500 and today stopped by a chevy dealer as I was going by (thought what the hey) and asked for a price on a chevy 5500. There having thier employee pricing you pay what we pay. With thier employee pricing the 5500 was still 7+ thousand more than either of the others before incentives 18k, before rebates and employee pricing. I'd say thier pricing themselfs out of the market.

[cat320]

well as far as cab wise i like the gm cab very roomy i think but as far as power i think the dodge has them.

[Wizard]

well as far as cab wise i like the gm cab very roomy i think but as far as power i think the dodge has them.

You do realize that the GM 4500/5500 cab is a cutaway van right... Last time I was in one, roomy didn't really come to mind... For comfort, I'd much rather have a pickup style cab over a van.

[cat320]

You do realize that the GM 4500/5500 cab is a cutaway van right... Last time I was in one, roomy didn't really come to mind... For comfort, I'd much rather have a pickup style cab over a van.

yes I know that the first time i saw one . I thought it was more roomy maybe because it had two seats instead of a bench ,I'm in a van all day do maybe have just gotten used to it.

[Pickering Snow]

Dave and Dave

I certainly wasnt poking fun at you guys just the import that got sent over with the reg trash that comes on the barges:D

Mich once was a thriving State for a short period of time we had Engler and things were at least stable, Grandholm did promise us in her reelection camps this time we would be blown away well she hasnt let us down.:rolleyes:

Let me remind everyone her idea for growth in Mich was tourizm well that just sucks toliet water when gas is 4 bucks a gallon

[GMC Driver]

Dave and Dave

I certainly wasnt poking fun at you guys just the import that got sent over with the reg trash that comes on the barges:D




No problem Fred, just wanted to make sure we don't all get lumped in the same group of tree-hugging, same-sex condoning, liberal loving wack jobs that this country is well reputed for. While we do have socialist policies in regards to health care and education, I dare say we are more alike than we are different. And I think you know me well enough that I won't be flying the hammer and sickle any time soon.

[JD Dave]

No problem Fred, just wanted to make sure we don't all get lumped in the same group of tree-hugging, same-sex condoning, liberal loving wack jobs that this country is well reputed for. While we do have socialist policies in regards to health care and education, I dare say we are more alike than we are different. And I think you know me well enough that I won't be flying the hammer and sickle any time soon.

I agree again. It's kind of funny how little Americans actually know about Canada, no offense to anybody, it's just the way it is. You also know these LTS guys really well and I'm just starting to learn there sense's of humour. LOL Oh BTW, my same sex partner and I, love living in Canada. LOL

[John Banks]

GM to invest $200 million in India engine plant (http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSBOM21216320080828)

How long before the unions wake up and smell what's cookin'?

I've said before that I'm a capitalist - but I also believe in keeping jobs and resources at home as much as possible. Don't export our goods, our oil, our jobs - unless it's excess overflow that can not be utilized here -no matter what the profit - we take care of ourselves first. This plant should be under construction HERE in the US! BS!

[GMC Driver]

Oh BTW, my same sex partner and I, love living in Canada. LOL



Nothing funny about that Dave.....















:grinz :grinz :grinz

[JD Dave]

Nothing funny about that Dave.....















:grinz :grinz :grinz

Shhh Don't tell my wife.:grinz

[JD Dave]

GM to invest $200 million in India engine plant (http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSBOM21216320080828)

How long before the unions wake up and smell what's cookin'?

I've said before that I'm a capitalist - but I also believe in keeping jobs and resources at home as much as possible. Don't export our goods, our oil, our jobs - unless it's excess overflow that can not be utilized here -no matter what the profit - we take care of ourselves first. This plant should be under construction HERE in the US! BS!

Totallly agree. I'm also sick of, everytime I call customer service for my telephone or satellite, I'm calling India. WTF

[Pickering Snow]

GM to invest $200 million in India engine plant (http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSBOM21216320080828)

How long before the unions wake up and smell what's cookin'?

I've said before that I'm a capitalist - but I also believe in keeping jobs and resources at home as much as possible. Don't export our goods, our oil, our jobs - unless it's excess overflow that can not be utilized here -no matter what the profit - we take care of ourselves first. This plant should be under construction HERE in the US! BS!

Currie is still dirt cheap, :wink God only knows theres only so many 7-11's and Motels left here in the states.

On that note 50 lucky Flint natives will be hired to run a new Poop bio fuel plant next year was on the news last night sounds like to crappy of job for the unions to get involed with.

[Ole JIM]

Joey

I would agree with that until GM cleared out Flint to move plants out of the US , If you read on how Honda and Toyota run there american operations safty wise they rank the highest of industry. My point with Honda coming to Flint was when all that was left was empty buildings there was a chance at least for the people of Flint to work again Honda just didnt want to work with the unions, There ability to produce or want to build in the US to me was a step forward since more companys are leaving that coming.

Work Ethics and i know this wont settle well with some is you cant punch a time clock for 35 dollars a hour, and a 8hour shift Bitch for 4 and work the other 4 that is what the two companys didnt want to deal with. Iam sure the people in Indy and Oh dont mind having a steady job i havent heard much complaining from the US Toyo or Honda plants down there.

With the US in the shape its in wouldnt it be nice for a change to see jobs come back here? I try to stay neutral on unions since two of my brothers would hang me from a tree but i belive the biggest reason american companys shift there operations overseas is yup cheap labor but no unions.

If any of the Big three go down here anytime soon blame could be shifted all over the place from building gas guslers to increase costs but in all three cases the union monkey on there back is helping to sink them as well. FRED Mom here Big Cos moving to Foreign nations--Cheap Labor is NOT the main Factor--Here in America have the E.P.A. & over there they DON*T! WE have a young Neighbor an Auto Body man Who investigated Building a Paint Booth to Re-Paint vehicles--He showed Me & Dad his Figures from three differant local contractors--low was just over $ 60,000 Hi was $ 92,000 --His Comment-NO WAY! so 6 men are now out of Work! Locally--Dad was Ammused?? at the Plans -especially the storage area for Used paint & chemicals--Dad says Our Bank Vault is NOt as secure as the Paint storage Area they--The state--demand in the plans--but thats what the E.P.A. Demans!--MOM--

[Pickering Snow]

FRED Mom here Big Cos moving to Foreign nations--Cheap Labor is NOT the main Factor--Here in America have the E.P.A. & over there they DON*T! WE have a young Neighbor an Auto Body man Who investigated Building a Paint Booth to Re-Paint vehicles--He showed Me & Dad his Figures from three differant local contractors--low was just over $ 60,000 Hi was $ 92,000 --His Comment-NO WAY! so 6 men are now out of Work! Locally--Dad was Ammused?? at the Plans -especially the storage area for Used paint & chemicals--Dad says Our Bank Vault is NOt as secure as the Paint storage Area they--The state--demand in the plans--but thats what the E.P.A. Demans!--MOM--

Jim

Your freaking me out ok i have this image in my head of a 80 yr old women with more hair than me on my legs....

Iam not stuipd ok wether its you or MA your still giving me a headache reading that web tv crap BTW i cant belive web tv is still alive after this long must be one of those wally world pc's.:rolleyes:

[Mark Oomkes]

Jim

Your freaking me out ok i have this image in my head of a 80 yr old women with more hair than me on my legs....

Iam not stuipd ok wether its you or MA your still giving me a headache reading that web tv crap BTW i cant belive web tv is still alive after this long must be one of those wally world pc's.:rolleyes:

JIMA, ditto to Fred.

Stop with the typing crap, it isn't WebTV or else you wouldn't be able to type in URL's, e-mail addresses etc.

Keep the posts on topic, attempt to be positive in your posts instead of bitching about everyone with a new truck, the oil companies, etc, etc.

[Mark Oomkes]

I'll speak for myself, and although I have never met JD Dave, I have a feeling he may be in the same mindset as myself - we might have socialist policies, and a liberal moral scope up here in Canada, but don't be so quick to write us all off. We bleed blue in my house - that's the right (meaning correct and non-left) colour around here.

As much as I would love to change things with Canada's moral mindset, I can honestly say I still love my country, and feel blessed to be able to work, play, and worship in freedom. I can only hope and pray that all of our children, grandchildren, and great-granchildren can enjoy the same freedoms. The way things look now, those freedoms could very well be in jepoardy in years to come, without worrying about the pressures of what's happening on the other side of the planet. By that I mean the moral decay in our own societies is a serious threat to ensuring these freedoms - I still believe in the idea of battling terrorists on their soil, and support our troops.



On edit: I thought I might reply to this thread at some point, just never thought it would take this turn!!

Well Dave and Dave (these are some of the Daves I know lol) it looks like I owe you guys and the rest in the Great White North an apology. Looks like your southern neighbor is well on its way to becoming socialist as well.

Sorry, guess we might just as well do that whole North American Union thing. :eek:

[90plow]

On a side note, what's wrong with Obama. LOL
Come on you cant be serious.... haha I think were in for a world of hurt the government is now going to own shares in banks, control our health care, provide tax cuts to 95% of americans 45% of which dont pay taxes so its either socialism or health care. These are the guys who couldn't run their own house restuaruant because no one was paying their bills. AND THEY RUN THE COUTRY???
-Eric

[Wizard]

Come on you cant be serious....

No, I dont think he was, that's what the LOL was (sarcasm). JD seems pretty conservative to me...

[Mark Oomkes]

Jim

Your freaking me out ok i have this image in my head of a 80 yr old women with more hair than me on my legs....

Iam not stuipd ok wether its you or MA your still giving me a headache reading that web tv crap BTW i cant belive web tv is still alive after this long must be one of those wally world pc's.

:rolling :rolling :rolling :nothingfu

[GMC Driver]

We had a national election here on Tuesday, and our Conservative governmanet got re-elected. Not alot of change, (our system is quite a bit different) - but the Conservatives have more representation, the Liberals considerably less. A third party (New Democrats - very leftist) also gained some seats.

So while the Conservatives would have liked to have done better - they'll take another win. Perhaps the status quo will do a little longer...

[Pickering Snow]

We had a national election here on Tuesday, and our Conservative governmanet got re-elected. Not alot of change, (our system is quite a bit different) - but the Conservatives have more representation, the Liberals considerably less. A third party (New Democrats - very leftist) also gained some seats.

So while the Conservatives would have liked to have done better - they'll take another win. Perhaps the status quo will do a little longer...

Dave

We had the final debate last night here for our next commander and cheif and all tell you most that know me iam not swinging the one way from a tree and honestly the other doesnt look that swell either.

Our country is in some serious poop . I find it almost offensive no i do find it offensive for two people to stand on a stage who have taken money from the coffers sat on there dead ass's and voted and voted for Free trade and then try to tell me last night about creating jobs in the US.

How stuipd do they think 6pack Joe and Soccer moms are.???

I had this killer buss idea over the last week or two open a store called MADE IN AMERICA after doing some checking looks like a 600sq ft building would be over kill . Sad just freaking sad.

To be fair i kinda got the idea from going to Mackinaw City alot in the crossings shopping center theres a store called made in Canada cool store although my friends north of the boarder are in about the same boat has this store is maybe 400sq ft.