f450/f550

[chtucker]

I am trading in the excursion on a new truck...

I want a long bed (or flatbed) supercab, so that eliminates a 350.. I have had SO MANY troubles with my Excursion that I don't want to give anyone the chance to deny ANY warranty claims.

It is hard finding an XLT 450/550 for sure, and the only reason I want an XLT is for the power windows/locks (wife more than me). How hard is it at least add power locks?

Am I going to hate life with the 4.88 gears? I have constantly overloaded the excursion (towing and hauling) I do like driving the Highway at 70 -75mph though.

I want to put a narrow 9' steel flatbed on the truck (pretty hard to bash up steel:)

A friend got nailed by the state patrol for not having a CDL. He had an f350 with a 20k GVW trailer. He was not carrying more that 8k on the 20k trailer though. Because he was over 26K GVW he got fined big time. If the 550GVW is 19K or so I can barely even legally tow my 7k GVW trailer, let alone a 14K gooseneck.. Do I really want to get a CDL license?

What do you do with your 550?

Howard

[JD PLOWER]

I'll try to take these in order.

XLT's are actually more common around here then xl's so I guess its just the market I'm in? Can't answer the power locks question, sorry.

If your doing mostly highway then your not going to be a big fan of the mileage or the engine noise ( the 6.0 might be quieter?) with an auto. I think 4.30's are available for these trucks so that might help.

Having your own body will definitely save money so I think your all set there.

If you get a 4x4 then you'll have a gvw of 17.500 so it may be even more of an issue if your going to be hauling a trailer on a regular basis. If your going to buy 2wd and expect to plow with this I strongly suggest some counter ballast like a fully loaded spreader.

Some things to keep in mind. These trucks are very different riding then almost all trucks out there. Short wheelbase 4x4's ride harsh when unloaded and unless loaded to their limit don't expect to apppreciate the ride very much.

Bottom line from me would be if this is your grocery getter as well as a work truck, I would pass on the 550. Its just a WHOLE LOTTA TRUCK!

With that said I just came in about 15 minutes ago from plowing with the 550 and the 8611 and I would like to buy another one tomorrow ;)

[chtucker]

Can't ride much worse than my X springed front/ undersprung rear Excursion...

Yes it will be a primary vehicle in the winter. Jeep on 37" tires, lockers front and rear is a death trap in the snow.


Keep in mind that I live in a SMALL town, don't have to go more than 5-10 miles usually (5miles to day job) The biggest concern I have is those trips to the "big city" to denver, (100 miles) for stuff. Usually when we gowe are picking up a pallet of grain though.

I do take 500-1000 mile tow trips with the Jeep during the summer and hopefully someday will have a 30' gooseneck for two vehicles.

THANKS FOR THE REPLYS....

If I do it though, I gotta get the 8611 to replace the 810:D

[JD PLOWER]

Howard if your serious about this then you have to get an air ride suspension. Your kidneys will thank you for it :eek:.

[chtucker]

Considering that I had scheduled the Excursion for air bags front and rear next week, but can't get the ^#*@#*& thing there cause it ain''t running AGAIN, I could just drop a different truck off....

And I fogot to mention that I am going to step up to a V Box

[Pelican]

With 4.88s, my 550 turns 2300 rpm @ 55mph. 2200 seems to be the magic number where fuel milage drops off quickly, so I end up going about 52 mph around town, getting only 9 mpg.

A narrow flatbed is out of the question unless you plan to use fenderettes of some sort. The width of the rear axle is quite a bit more than an F-350, in fact with my 9' plow I drag the rears through the windrow even on straight runs.

When JD mentioned air suspension, I think he meant replacing the springs with bags instead of supplementing them, the latter would only serve to make the truck ride stiffer. This is available, I've seen it done with ambulances, but the cost is high.

The best way to add the power windows and locks would be to find a wrecked donor vehicle, otherwise I think the cost would be prohibitive. You could probably handle the job based on the extent of work I've seen you do on the Bronco.

CDLs aren't that tough to get, but you'll need someone with a CDL to ride with you while training and for the test. It's always good to have, you never know what tomorrow will bring!

[Pelican]

I forgot to mention, when describing the handling characteristics of the 550, I describe it as handling more like a small 750 rather than a large 350, if that makes any sense.

[JD PLOWER]

Howard, Pelican is correct I am reffering to a replacement suspension and not an addition. I know a guy who replaced his entire 450 suspension with bags and the truck really does ride a lot better. He's also right when he says it expensive, I don't know the exact number but I'd guess maybe 3k ?

Has your wife test drove a 550 with you? She might not be so appreciative of the trucks other attributes :D . Good luck and I hope you can get the X to the dealer soon.

[River Hill]

Pelican you mention draging your rear tires in you windrow even on straight runs. You mention that your F550 is quite a bit wider than a F350. Are you saying is wider than a F350 Chassis cab dual rear wheel? I am trying to find the specs on the widths of the F350, F450, and F550. I am still in my truck shopping mode. I really want the Dodge regular cab, but I can only get it it a 2500, so that leaves that out as I will be very overloaded with the salt and trailer. I looked at a regular cab F350, but I will be overloaded there as well. I am know looking for a Chassis cab that I can put a small dump body with fold down sides. I want the shortest wheel base possible and I don't want to ride over my windrows while plowing. I really like the rugby dump bed, but it wont let me put two pallets side by side. Maybe I can run with the sides down and strap the pallets down.

I have went back and forth between Dodge and Ford. If Dodge made a 4500 or a 5500, I think it would be a easy choice.

[sdpsd99]

I have owned both a 99 F350 C&C and a 00 F550. My F350 with the dump body up measuring across the rear axel to the outside buldge on the tire's with a straight edge vertical across the the tires was 96 1/2". The F550 I belive measured 95". Which I had asked my sales rep about the F350 width he said that at the factory they might had put an ambulance rear in it by mistake.

The F 350 was 9370lbs light weight . Had a Knaphide steel dumping flatbed with full head board and cab shield & dual 36" tool boxes.

The F 550 is 10,000lbs light weight. Galion 3/4 yard dump body no tool boxes.

[sdpsd99]

[

The F 350 was 9370lbs light weight . Had a Knaphide steel dumping flatbed with full head board and cab shield & dual 36" tool boxes.

The F 550 is 10,000lbs light weight. Galion 3/4 yard dump body no tool boxes. [/B][/QUOTE]


Small picture fix sorry guys.

[hoagie]

On my 01' F450 the outside edge rear wheel to wheel measures 92".

[Honest Mike]

SDPSD99, I've said it before and I'll say it again, beautiful trucks you got there! :shades Thanks for posting the picture. Mike :)

[sdpsd99]

Mike 97 SS

Thank You again for the compliments.

[4evergreenlawns]

03 F-450 9' contractor dump bed with steel side boards with the 8.5 MVP scaled 11,000lbs empty

[Pelican]

That's the downfall of the 450, the tare weight. With a GVW of 15,000, you're left with just a 4000 lb payload. That's about 1 1/2 yards of item 4! This is only about 500 lbs over what I can carry on my F-350 SRW!

These Super Dutys aren't all they're cracked up to be in the GVWR department. While the GVWR's are higher than the trucks they replaced, the tare weights are also dramatically higher, leaving you with less payload capacity than the older style trucks.

There is very little price or weight difference between the F-450 and 550, yet the 550 has an additional 2500 lbs capacity. That's another yard of material you can handle legally.

[cat320]

Pelican you said the magic word Legally My buddie reserched into the 450/550 and said they were the same except for higher rated springs.axels and everything else the same except the 450 had it's on part numbers and the 550 had it's own part numbers.That is the only reason that I know is because my friend did do alot of research on it before he got the 450.

[4evergreenlawns]

I guess legally is the key word. Reminded me of a conversation we had on the other site when you metioned getting several tons of salt in your truck and talking about GVWR's. Plated for 18,000 same as a 550, so that helps some. Even with the additional 2,500 in the 550 what is your actual loaded weight? As for the 350, what have you scaled that as loaded?

I bet there is not a 550 out there running at 17,500 loaded with a 8611 mounted to the front. Again, if my memory serves me right you mentioned at one point getting 5-6 tons/yards in that dump of yours last year/season. Just the way things go. You have to work within the limits that you can best manage.

With the spring work (adding one to the main and one to the aux on each side) and the Timbrens (front and rear) I get about 4 yards of salt on before the truck really starts to drop. Can't start to tell you how many 3500 DRW dumps I see dragging mud flaps during a storm. Wacthing the loader is the real problem. With the sideboards they have loaded it right to the top heaping and I have had to dump the entire load and make them start over.

It is no different than running a 2 yard V box in a Pick up truck. Which I do too. Puts everyone running that set up over GVWR 3/4 or 1 ton but you sure do see alot of them on the road. With the plow on and a level loaded V box my P/U scaled at 11,000lbs. Did not look that heavy nor did I think anyone else was running that heavy with this set up. Glad I am plated for 12,000lbs.

I let my insurance agent talk me out of the 550 becuase of the insurance rates for trucks over 15,000 GVWR had such a high increase. In some cases I wish I would have gotten the 550 but for the amount of time I run loaded it it does not out pan out for the 45% rate increases.

Just all part of doing business. Never seen anyone scaling trucks during a storm and that is really the only time is am running loaded.

[Pelican]

I think it's safe to assume that most truck owners use them year 'round, not just during snow events. DOT is out in full force around here during summer months when I'm hauling item 4. In NY, you can't register a vehicle for over the manufacturers GVWR, no way, no how. That leaves me a 6000 lb legal payload on my 550.

My '92 3500 has a legal payload of 3500 lbs, just shy of your 450. My '81 F-350 SRW had a GVWR of 9300, and the tare was only 5800, leaving a 3500 lb payload.

I'm still waiting to hear what the tare on 5500 dumps is in comparison. If they are running like GM has in the past, they should be quite a bit lighter.

I never made any mention of hauling legal, but life would be much simpler if it was possible to do so. Not only do you set yourself up for the possibility of a hefty fine, but also liability exposure as well. In the event of an accident, you'd better hope no one shows up with scales, or you'll be in for a serious lawsuit, one which would be difficult to defend. You can beef up a truck all you want, but when the stuff hits the fan, the door sticker is the only thing that matters.

[wyldman]

Around here,the DOT goes after salt\plow trucks all the time.They set up near the salt distributors,or on the common routes that people use.They usually hide where you can't turn off,or turn around.

Probably a good half of the trucks are nailed for something,and most are overweight.I think thats why a lot of guys don't bother with pickups much anymore.The larger 5 tons and up are becoming more and more popular for salt duties due to the increased payload capacity.

[4evergreenlawns]

Steve,

You are killling me. It took awhile to stop laughing enough to type.

It took me some time to search it out but here is what you posted on ******** in response to my thread about F-550 trucks and GVWR's on 3/12/03. If you do not remember the thead try this one "2003 F-550 4X4 Dump and spreader question". Sorry I do not know how to put up the link.

Pelican posted:

"I regularly carry 6 yards of salt on my 550, and no, I haven't had it on a scale. I doubt it's legal, but DOT doesn't make a habit of weighing trucks during a snow storm around here. My work is for a local Town as well, the cops know it and don't hassle us."

Now you post:

"I think it's safe to assume that most truck owners use them year 'round, not just during snow events. DOT is out in full force around here during summer months when I'm hauling item 4. In NY, you can't register a vehicle for over the manufacturers GVWR, no way, no how. That leaves me a 6000 lb legal payload on my 550."

Can you tell us what math you are doing that equals out to 6 YARDS being 6000LBS legal payload? Even when you admit it is not legal 6 yards would be way over double 6,000lbs and that is from my experience on and for a scale.

As for the TARE weight of your 350 is that with a plow and whatever salt speader you are using? I am sure my 2500HD will Tare light too if I remove the V box and plow BUT with the V box and plow I scaled it right at 9,000 lbs. Some how that would be in conflict with your statement about GM trucks having lighter Tare weights.

Yes, the leagal payload according to specs in my 2500HD is 3800lbs with a GVWR of 9200lbs on the STICKER. F-350 rated at 9900 GVWR. So again doing simple math 9900 minus a tare weight of 5800 would be 4100lbs. If you want to say you are payloading 3500 leagal that are you saying that blizzard plow and whatever else you might have mounted on your 350 only weights 600lbs????

I wish I could say I am sorry for pointing this out in a publuc forum BUT, your views and opinoins have changed some since November. I think it goes to creditabilty and although you have taken several public opportunities to point out with you have seen as mistakes in my views, as well as a few others, most of us turn to people like you on this site for SOLID dependable information.

IMHO your views and opinoins have become somewhat more mainstream than what you have posted over the past two years that I have been watching your post and threads. If that is what it take to be a Moderator you are doing us all a disservice.

Should anyone view this as a personal attack it is not. It just one person poniting out conflicting statements made by another. Nothing more, nothing less and I think it is called a debate.

[Pelican]

:huh

What just happened here?

[76chevyman]

Dont pick on Steve he is a great man and full of info. Sometimes he just may have other things on his mind. Im totally on your side steve