Regrooving tires and a general rant

[Alan]

I really do love the modern classifications for Mud & Snow tires. I'm seeing tread designs that have no business being anywhere but on a plowed highway and they managed to receive (buy?) that fancy mountain/snowflake gov't approved label.

I dug out one set of my summer tires yesterday and swapped them onto my 97 K2500. Had to do a little remodeling with a grooving iron so I could get to wear all the tread off without killing myself on a set of water skis.

First pic is a Nokain "Vativa" 265/75R16-E that still has 1/4" of rubber in that damn center rib. That's 3/16" of an inch of usable tread depth before it hits the wear indicators. The siping is almost gone and the rib is very close to being a solid ski right where the tire hits the road the hardest.

There are also bars of solid rubber (circled) in the outer treads bands. These are NOT wear indicators, they are there to keep the tread blocks from squashing together and closing off the voids. At this point they are less than 1/16" from being flush with the tread blocks. When the do come flush the tire will have no voids opening to the outside, effectively becoming a rib tire and trapping water/mud/whatever in the tread area.

Apparently the idea is that when the tire gets down to just under half tread you junk it and buy new ones.

Anyhow, I'm not about to throw away that much tread use so I heated up the grooving iron and did my own modifications. Tires are probably illegal to run now, I'm sure there is some regulation against cutting a tire that is not marked "Regroovable". Ask me if I give a rats butt!!

Second pic is the same tire after it got redesigned a little. Cross cut the center rib to the bottom of the lugs and took out that same depth in the spacer blocks. They're on the truck now, I should be able to get a summers run out of them.

What gets me PO'd is that the tire people make these tires for the yuppie who never goes anywhere but on plowed roads. He's so impressed with the fancy emblem but he's not savvy enough to realize that he never drives on anything but plowed roads. He doesn't need a snow tire, he really needs an all season, which is what these tires really are.

I have yet to see a good snow tire that has a center rib. My opinion, granted, but I've tried a bunch of designs, including the much vaunted Cooper Discoveror(sp) M&S. They may be fine for driving in snow but they didn't impress me with the ability to start and stop in snow/slush. I'm running Goodrich T/A KOs now. There is no rib and they work. Again,, all this is my opinion, your mileage may vary.

One of the worst designs I've seen is the Michelin X-Ice. No voids to speak of, just a lot of siping. I expect they would be great for driving on ice/packed snow as all the sipes add edges and edges =traction on hard surfaces. But what happens when you get that siped slick into deep snow? Will it dig a path? I doubt it.

Had to look long and hard to find a decent winter tire for Lindas' Element last fall. Odd size so not a lot of options and almost all of them had a center rib. What we ended up with seems to work good and has no rib. Winterforce or something like that.

if these center ribs are so great why are they a current thing? Snow wasn't any different 40 years ago. It appears to me that if you can brag on some "breakthrough design" and "computer designed tread blocks" you're going to sell tires to the majority of buyers. That these buyers wouldn't know good tire performance from bad is irrelevant. With the road maintenance we have now even a poor design will get you to work and back.

[wagonman76]

Ive always been picky about my tires too. I always wondered why more often than not, tires have those partial height ribs that mostly trap the water instead of letting it get out the side of the tire. I spend a lot of time shopping for tires.

For my cars, Ive had very good experience with the Goodyear Viva Touring tires from Walmart. Basically a rebadged Goodyear Regatta. All individual tread blocks. No water blockers. Stick to the road like glue and good in the snow too.

For real snow driving, Ive had good experience with both Blizzak and Winterforce tires.

[GMC Driver]

Alan, your rant is perfectly understandable. If there is anything more frustrating, it's keeping tires on the trucks and equipment.

The problem we run into is that when the trucks go in for annual safety (required by DOT - non compliance = big fine), there isn't enough on the tires to get them to pass. Now I don't know what the minimum requirement is exactly, but I am almost guarenteed to have a couple trucks that need tires every spring. This is by the DOT standard, and as you illustrate, there is often life left in them, even though they fail the safety. At $200+/tire, this is an expensive proposition.

I often fool myself into searching out a deal - case in point: I found a set in the paper, good enough to pass safety - $100/tire and saved money. They wouldn't pass safety a year later (about 35K miles). Bought next set as take-offs at the tire shop - General Grabbers (POS!!) at $90/tire and saved money. Now they won't pass with just under 30K miles. If I had been smart and bought a decent quality tire to begin with, I would have been better off! So what I have been guilty of doing is rotating the best set between three of the trucks during safety season, to avoid buying tires for it to pass. This way I can still run the marginal set for the summer, and purchase new ones in the fall, prior to the plowing season.

I will say that the best luck I've had is with the Goodyear Wrangler ATS - the one truck has had them on for 3 years with 60K miles on them, and they will still pass safety. While they are a little more $$, it's money well spent. And alot less work swapping rims/tires around during safety season.

[wyldman]

Alan, your rant is perfectly understandable. If there is anything more frustrating, it's keeping tires on the trucks and equipment.

The problem we run into is that when the trucks go in for annual safety (required by DOT - non compliance = big fine), there isn't enough on the tires to get them to pass. Now I don't know what the minimum requirement is exactly, but I am almost guarenteed to have a couple trucks that need tires every spring. This is by the DOT standard, and as you illustrate, there is often life left in them, even though they fail the safety. At $200+/tire, this is an expensive proposition.

I often fool myself into searching out a deal - case in point: I found a set in the paper, good enough to pass safety - $100/tire and saved money. They wouldn't pass safety a year later (about 35K miles). Bought next set as take-offs at the tire shop - General Grabbers (POS!!) at $90/tire and saved money. Now they won't pass with just under 30K miles. If I had been smart and bought a decent quality tire to begin with, I would have been better off! So what I have been guilty of doing is rotating the best set between three of the trucks during safety season, to avoid buying tires for it to pass. This way I can still run the marginal set for the summer, and purchase new ones in the fall, prior to the plowing season.

I will say that the best luck I've had is with the Goodyear Wrangler ATS - the one truck has had them on for 3 years with 60K miles on them, and they will still pass safety. While they are a little more $$, it's money well spent. And alot less work swapping rims/tires around during safety season.

Dave - 3/32 of an inch is the minimum spec to pass an annual inspection,or to pass a DOT certification.

If you need tires,give me a ring,I always have deals on new and used.

[Mark Oomkes]

After seeing a Conticrap with Snow & Ice rating, it is more than obvious that the system is a complete joke. Those tires should never see a snowflake as crappy as they are.

So rant away you amutoor.

[Wizard]

After seeing a Conticrap with Snow & Ice rating, it is more than obvious that the system is a complete joke. Those tires should never see a snowflake as crappy as they are.
Silly boy, they handle snow and ice just fine. They handle 1/4" of snow and that crunchy ice stuff that provides more traction than some of the city streets around here. Oh, and the Contis are great... for the tire recycling business... :haha

I guess someone forgot to define "snow" and "ice"... Looks good Alan!

[wfd44]

Alan I have a question about the Nokian Vativa you pictured. Roughly how many miles on that tire? I am currently running that tire (in a P not an LT) on both my 1996 half ton (for another month until the '07 arrives) and my wife's Tahoe. The set on the 96 have been run for two seasons and I have nothing but good things to say about them so far (I liked them well enough to put them on the Tahoe last fall). We have been extremely pleased with their performance in the snow (the pickup runs about 500 pounds of ballast).

By no means am I arguing anything. Actually far from it. I was considerring the the idea of trying to make a deal with the local Bridgestone dealer (also the Nokian dealer) to swap (for credit) the OEM Bridgestones that are coming on my new 2500 HD. If the life expectancy of the Nokians aren't too great I may re-think that whole idea.

Anybody got any experience with the Bridgestone Duravis (LT 265/70R17)?

[Plow Dak]

Alan Why DOESN'T it suprise me that you have a grooving iron.

I also use the Goodrich T/A KOs. They serve me well.

[BRUNSWICK CONCRETE]

What does the iron look like and where do you buy them ?

[Alan]

What does the iron look like and where do you buy them ?
I found mine on ebay, here's (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ideal-Tire-Groover-micro-mini-sprint-quarter-midget-jei_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ46093QQihZ020QQitem Z300074305022QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V) a current listing of one with a decent picutre.

[Alan]

Alan I have a question about the Nokian Vativa you pictured. Roughly how many miles on that tire?

I'm not really sure. I ran them for two summers and only on the rear. I have a set of alloys wheels for summer and ran a highway tire on the fronts. I would say 20-25K on them. They never did see snow but my impression was that they would have been a marginal snow tire at best. I bought them because their rolling radius was the closest I could find to the fronts I was going to run.

[OSCLandscaping]

I run the Nokian Vativas on one 2500 hd, and one 3500, have run them for about 3 or 4 years, I leave them on year round and have had great luck plowing with them.

We get about 30,000 out of a set, depending on who's driving. At the end of the tread life obviously not as good traction.

We used to run snow tires and then summer tires, got to the point we didn't seem to have the time to switch, things get hectic around the shop in the spring and fall. These are the best compromise I have found for an all around tire.

[atgreene]

Alan Why DOESN'T it suprise me that you have a grooving iron.

I also use the Goodrich T/A KOs. They serve me well.

Hmmm, I have an iron somewhere, must be in the barn, somewhere.:rolleyes:

[Plow Dak]

With that barn Mr. Greene there should be at least 2 in there... :p

[atgreene]

With that barn Mr. Greene there should be at least 2 in there... :p


There might be, I just don't know if I can put my hands on it (them?).

As for tires, I'm going to use a set up dikes and pull the left-over studs from my Copper M & S, as this is their last season of wear, and I'll run them for the summer.

[Landgreen]

I agree the mud and snow rating is a joke. I've tried different tires and keep coming back to BFG KO's. They wear ok but the grip is tough to beat. My 350 came with Continental AT's(truck was used). They were a 305 (too big) and had no traction in snow. Especially hardpack on private roads. Went to replace one and found they are only available in Canada. Not sure how they ended up on my truck.