My tractor research....

[chtucker]

I have been investigating tractors after witnessing Andy's little miracle machine.

I have been told that, and it seems to be the case that I need 75hp to do what I want:

Load a dump truck
Lift 2000lbs on forks into a semi
Run at least a 7' blower
travel 20mph or better
Push a 12' box blow...

Well I went to the Deere dealer recommended a JD 5525 75pto hp with cab, ac, heat 4wd, 24/24 tranny 15.5-38 rears 12-24 fronts dual rear valves, triple mid, telescoping draft links, electric hitch, coldstart, mirrors and rear wiper, JD 542 loader, 73" bucket, hood guard, loader suspension..

Went to the Massey dealer and they were certainly less knowledgeable about the product. Neither dealer was pushy, just Farm boys out of the field....JD salesguy hand wrote a letter and price quote to me..:zoinks

Massey Choices:

3645, 75hp PTO Sisu diesel... 3 cylinder 201cuinch ?? where made
593 77hp PTO perkins Diesel 4 cylinder 202cuinch Tractor made in Brasil
5445 70hp PTO Perkins Diesel 4cylinder 268cuinch Tractor made in US

Didn't really spec a tractor as he was waiting for his son that is more computer literate.....

Massey Dealer is closer, but smaller. Did say that he could almost certainly find someone to lease tractor for the summer months.....

Going to look at New Holland and Kubota when I get a chance...

[T-Zab]

Any Case dealers in your neck of the woods ?
Usually real good for parts and they are as well built (or better) as anything out there.
T

[GMC Driver]

Got to agree with Todd - you may also find that the New Holland and Case are the same machine with few differences.

[chtucker]

Nothing is close... Massey is 65 miles, Deere is 90 miles, everything else is 110

[T-Zab]

Got to agree with Todd - you may also find that the New Holland and Case are the same machine with few differences.

I should have mentioned that :grinz
Drove past the Red/Blue plant yesterday in Racine on the way to Fleet Farm.
T

[rgrimes945]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/WALTERS-4X4-TRUCK-WITH-SNOW-BLOWER_W0QQitemZ160070659706QQihZ006QQcategoryZ637 34QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Here you go howard the Meanest machine on Wheels

[chtucker]

This is what I was thinking for a plow, anyone have some other ideas.. I want to mount to the loader arms...
http://www.wikco.com/hdhplow.html

http://http://www.wikco.com/images/hblade8.jpg

[appleman]

That looks like a Horst blade.If it is that is one heck of a plow!they are built like a tank.

[chtucker]

Is it safe to mount the plow to the loader arms? I want to be able to keep the bucket onsite and I like the idea of having the loader to give a push backwards, if you go to far....

[appleman]

That should work fine with a loader. The only concern I would have is that the plow @ 12' in a deep heavy,drifted snow might be more then you can really handle.

Have you thought about putting an 8611 on it.You have a little more flexibility with being able to pull the wings in if it gets deep and heavy.

[itsgottobegreen]

Might as well look at a NH bi-directional. Ultimate Snow tractor.

[chtucker]

100k though.... there is one used here in Colorado with 150hrs for 62k...

[synner]

That link looks exactly like a Horst unit. They're made approx. 40 min from here. They make my skidsteer attachment plates. Tough as nails there stuff is. We use one of their blades on an articulating loader as a backup machine, its awesome stuff. No frills, just top quality.

[Pickering Snow]

Howard

I cetainly wish you could wait til spring i know you cant i would make you a heck of a deal on the Kubota M-9000 iam convinced we just really dont need it anymore. I can go back to my buddy for loading my Vbox and the storms we use it for here are just to far and few.

Mine is a 03 looks very simlar to the one posted in the tractor thread has 95 hp turbo diesel, about 80 on the pto. 3k loader arms pro tech 12 ft pusher box.

I bought it because my brother former employee convinced me it would work all year he mowed city parks on contract for two years with a 80 inch woods mower because he sucks we no longer work together and the tractor sits all summer in storage.

Like i posted before i have considered leasing it out during the summer however Auto Owners considers it a form of rental and would cost me a fortune to probley insur it for summer lease.

[Long0]

Howard,
Something to think about - Do the larger tractors have the option of a front mounted blower running off a front/mid PTO. I ran a rear 3-point blower for many years and after a full day of twisting yourself forward and backwards, it gets very unconfortable.

Andy

[wyldman]

I agree with Andy.

With the amount of snow you guys get out there,and with the amount you would be using it,I'd go with something bigger and powerful.

The front mount blower is the way to go if your using it a lot.

As you get into the bigger tractors,you can probably save a lot buying a used one.

[chtucker]

Howard,
Something to think about - Do the larger tractors have the option of a front mounted blower running off a front/mid PTO. I ran a rear 3-point blower for many years and after a full day of twisting yourself forward and backwards, it gets very unconfortable.

Andy


I was figuring the blower would only be an insurance policy.... I have been looking at new/used and my accountant has giving me the upside/downside to both...
http://www.newhollandused.com/asp/eDetails.aspx?eqID=283402&eID=1&loc=na-en&appmode=nhall
asking 65k...

[chtucker]

well the tractor sold yesterday, go figure...:)

[Long0]

If your looking at spending that kind of money, why not go with a rubber tire backhoe. The link you posted looks more Ag specific. Any use for it during the summer?
I'm thinking Rubber tire hoe due to the possibilties of moving dirt in other months. I know they make some nice blades for them, but I don't know of any options for blowers.

Andy

[chtucker]

There are alot of lowballer backhoe guys here in town, $60 per hour with 1/2hr minimums... I couldn't compete. Ag tractor... could do driveway/road leveling/ditching, post holing, and weed management.... or lease the tractor to a ranch for the summer...
I don't want to/can't spend 65k I was looking in the 40k range as to keep it closer to a skid steer price

[atgreene]

I'd definitely go with an ag tractor over a backhoe for your use. Insurance on a backhoe is crazy, if you have it you pay for excavation insurance instead of landscaping insurance. Been there, done that.

Also, it's only a backhoe, you can't swap attachments. Further, as someone who has plowed extensively with one when I worked for DPW, the boom sucks when your manuvering in and around cars or backing out into the road. Backhoes have their place, and they can be great snowmovers, but ag tractors will be so much more versitile for your situation. imho

[appleman]

Here is a link to Erskine. They make a nice line of blowers.Both front mount and rear.
http://www.erskineattachments.com/Erskine_Snow_Removal_2007.pdf

[chtucker]

hmmm 7,8 and 9 foot front blowers, didn't know they made them... Would a loader clear the mount?

[Alan]

Howard,

A few things to consider:

Ag loaders are not as stout as industrial loaders so it's easier to tweak them.

Ag tractors, even 4wd versions, are about helpless on packed snow or ice. Chains on four corners are going to be a necessity.

Ag hydraulic systems tend to be slower than comparable horsepower industrial tractors. I don't know of any ag rigs that have what we would consider "high flow" hydraulics to operate attachments.

Bucket quick couplers are generally not as refined as industrial versions. The ones available are stout enough and generall work as well, just not as convenient and there isn't a standard design.

There are snowblowers that can be loader mounted and driven by an auxiliary power pack running off the rear PTO. I've seen them on compact tractors and I would bet they are available for big tractors as well. Neither Erskine nor Loftness shows any power packs in their literature. That setup would give you a bit of rear weight and allow quick changes from bucket to blower. Probably more money than a shaft drive front blower but then you could have virtually unlimited lift, allowing you to tunnel through snow that had drifted way higher than the tractor.

In an ideal world a NH "Versatile" (do they still call them that?) would be the perfect machine but they are just so damn expensive. Hang a pusher or blade on the front and a big PTO blower on the other front. Spin the operators platform and work "forward" in either direction.

[PSDF350]

Howard have you thought about a Unimog? They are very versital. You can buy them fairly cheap (used). You can find them with front rear and center pto's. Anything you can do with a tractor you can do with them then some. I have seen them with loaders backhoes, cranes, plows/blowers, mowers. You name it there is an impliment for them.

[chtucker]

Parts are outragous for something newer. If I was putting around I would consider it if were just my driveway or a small road, but not as an intense a use as I have planned. I am thinking of making this into a driveway killer, backup to the truck....

[Mark Oomkes]

I have to echo Alan's comments. Other than the Versatile. The one I used was a POS. Pretty much tipped on its nose with just a yard of topsoil in the bucket.

I don't have experience with a lot of ag tractors and plowing, but those tube arms for the loaders just don't instill much confidence in me. I know, tube is stronger than solid, but it makes me worry when you start pushing regularly and with a bigger plow. I know what has been hit with my JCB and have not had the fortune of twisting any arms, yet. (Insert fingers crossed\knocking on wood smily here) Most guys around here are mounting the plows like you see on the pics here, not on the arms but directly to the frame. I think that is sort of a waste, I realize there are reasons for it, but still to have the stacking ability is worth the downside of the loader to me.

I had a JD 870, nothing close to what you are looking at. It was a great tractor and would have been except we outgrew it. Pretty much destroyed the loader hydraulics loading too much salt too often. It did everything else we asked of it though.

I can remember the nights of blowing back snow and getting a sore neck too. So if a blower is high on the list, you might want to think front mount. Even the mower we bought for the SS is way better being front mounted.

Not sure what advantages Andy's tractor had over your SS while helping Scott, but I will not be without a SS as long as I am plowing and landscaping. In a perfect world, I'd have both, but it ain't perfect. The SS will outload and outmaneuver a tractor any day of the week.

The only thing I miss yet about our tractor is the 3 point hitch. We have made do without, but that thing sure comes in handy for a lot of things. My dream is to fab up a 3 point and use the hydraulic PTO off a Toolcat. Just waiting to here how those work with the 810's on them.

Other than that, I think you're looking in the right HP range, Howard. That bi-directional for 62K is a fairly good price from what I've seen. Too bad it's more than what you want to spend. I'd love to put one of those to use too.

[chtucker]

My thoughts on tractor vs skid are traction. The skid is just not working on driveways very well, no ground clearance and once it gets off the main drive it starts gettin really squirely. I don't do much salt, but the loader arms to stack and push yourself back if you get to far into the pile are my thoughts. Travel speed = 25mph for the tractor. I only thought the small blowers where available in front mount, nice to know erskine has a 7-9' available. Turning radius on the tractor is 16-17 feet, I am assuming that is inside diameter.

Loader arms... I am thinking that I willing to sacrifice longevity for stacking.... a new loader complete is 8k....

The bi directionals are nice, but they are also at the limit of my truck towing it...

I am wondering if the blower mount could stay on with the loader?

I am looking for a tool that does better on steeper grades (7-8%) better in the dirt, somewhat more manueverable than a truck. Potential for me to use it/lease it/make moeny with it in the summer.

I am running an ad this week to drum up some driveway business, mid season specials (Acutally higher than I would quote by 33% in the beginning of the season)... My goal is to pickup 30-40 driveways for the rest of the season for $300+, plus the exisiting work, plus the calls I am getting for "special" jobs.....

Howard....

[Mark Oomkes]

I know the Toolcat is limited on lift height, but is that an option? The guys from Tahoe area love their's, one of them got rid of a full size loader and replaced it with a Toolcat. I know there's a couple members here that have them.

Downsides are smaller plow than you want, slower ground speed-18 MPH. Possibly limited on how much you could push. Probably anything over 8" and you'd ahve to start blowing, could probably be an issue.

Just sort of thinking out loud. Not sure you could find one in that fits your budget, either.

[sdpsd99]

Howard A few years ago at a show in poughkipsee ny, @ Taconic Maintance's show. They had a JCB Fast-Trac http://www.jcb.com/(0ng0xfrm1z52kjux1cyoch45)/products/product.aspx?rid=43&ind=agriculture machine. That had a huge blower on it. They cruise at almost 40mph. I know Chuck and Pelican saw it. Has Front and Rear 3pt hitch with pto.

My CaseIH DX45 tractor I have plows mounted front and rear and no problems pushing a 7 1/2 blade. I used to have the same set up on my old Kubota. The DX will lift an 1800lbs pallet.

[Mark Oomkes]

Forgot about the FasTrac. There's another machine I dream about owning.

Plus it's got a Cummins 8.3 for a power plant! I imagine you could run a fairly good size blower off it at 225 HP off the shaft. :rocker :smokin1

[itsgottobegreen]

http://www.pronovost.qc.ca/videoa.html Watch the top two videos of that snow blower.

[rgrimes945]

Hey !Howard I think we've found the toy u need.

Ray Grimes

[Prosno]

Bill that blower video is unbelievable! nice set up. Dont know how ya found it but ya got me thinking.

[Mark Oomkes]

That's one of those nice bi-directionals. I like the blue ones better.

And Bill, that means you can use implements on either end and either end can be front or back, you just have to flip the seat and the controls, not what you were thinking.

[itsgottobegreen]

Well the best solution it the blower on the back and a 14'-16' degalman 3pt box on the front end. Best of both worlds on the same machine.

[stuvecorp]

Was at the New Holland dealer today talking to them about skids today and started asking them about mid sized tractors. They lease out New Holland TN75SA tractors to farmers for the season, they had between 150-300 hours with cab, a/c, heat, radio, 4x4, power shuttle trans and the super steer front axle. They had all kind of options to pick from like a front loader, backhoe, some kind of plow and some other stuff, but the base price was $29,900 (they were 2005 models). What really interested me was they would fit a normal skidsteer trailer and were about 6000 pounds. I was thinking for us a 8611 Blizzard with danger wings and A Western pro flo2 on the back would be choice but you would probably want the loader which was about $5500. Hopefully some of the dealers by you have some kind of arangement like that. The sales guy thought we could do mowing during the summer to keep it busy.

[stuvecorp]

Howard, forgot to mention, have you looked on www.tractorhouse.com? They have different catagories and all the brands. Hope it helps.

[chtucker]

I went to the Kubota/New Holland Dealer... COMPLETE jackasses. Kept telling me I need a turbo at 10,000 feet:scramble NO kidding. I was shocked they were not wearing leisure suits and toupes. Price was good, though. It was a freaking zoo and they were selling EVERYTHING on the lot as more snow was predicted for Denver... Not a good experience.

[chtucker]

Oh and check this blower out, best of both worlds
http://www.pronovost.qc.ca/pxpla.html

[rgrimes945]

The thread earlier I was saying we found you a machine that was it I watched the vidio on it. that is an awsome machine..
Ray Grimes

[chtucker]

Wow...

HERE IS THE INFORMATION ON THE 5445 MASSEY:

MF 5445 WITH FRONT WHEEL ASSIST AND CAB
POWERSHIFT WITH POWERSHUTTLE
3 REAR REMOTES
480/85R30 REAR TIRES
340/84R24 FRONT TIRES
STEEP NOSE SHEET METAL
REAR WIPER
TELE SIDE MIRRORS
FRONT FENDERS


ALO FRONT END LOADER
4780 POUND LIFT CAP
83" BUCKET
SELF LEVELING
SOFT RIDE SUSPENSION
JOYSTICK VALVE

PACKAGE PRICE FOR THE UNIT IS $58,080

Deere dealer recommended a JD 5525 75pto hp with cab, ac, heat 4wd, 24/24 tranny 15.5-38 rears 12-24 fronts dual rear valves, triple mid, telescoping draft links, electric hitch, coldstart, mirrors and rear wiper, JD 542 loader, 73" bucket, hood guard, loader suspension.. $58,300

No firm quote from Kubota but... he said about $41k for a equally equipped M8540...

Deere said price was something we could talk about... did not ask Massey...

Holy crap what a price difference.

[PSDF350]

Kubota make a nice tractor. I was looking at tractors a couple years ago.

[Pelican]

I haven't had good luck with Kubota's parts network. The fastest I've been able to get out of stock parts (and most are) is 4 days. I often have to wait 2 weeks. Had I known this beforehand, I'd have bought a brand with a better delivery system. I don't know if other brands are any better, but it's worth checking in to.

[chtucker]

What Andy D said really interested me about JD and be able to check parts availability online......

Being that I am so far from anything, I don't expect it right away... heck I waited 18 days for a cutting edge for my Boss...... that was ridiculous

I guess I need to mae a decision and hammer the JD/Massey guys on price or look in the used market...

[Pickering Snow]

I haven't had good luck with Kubota's parts network. The fastest I've been able to get out of stock parts (and most are) is 4 days. I often have to wait 2 weeks. Had I known this beforehand, I'd have bought a brand with a better delivery system. I don't know if other brands are any better, but it's worth checking in to.


Steve you could be right on the parts mine has been trouble free and maint parts i get from Napa. I bought my M9000 in clare about 40 miles from here north the guy was the most helpful JD guys just didnt seem intrested in my money.

I will never forget the saturday i picked it up i was so excited got up there around 8am paid the guy he went threw a checklist with me and asked if i wanted it delivered i said heck no iam driving it home lol. Well i think i hit midand about 3hrs later with a slow moving tri and back roads . The novelty wore off after about 1.5 hours of driving i did stop and get a Alan jackson CD in a little town on the way back.

Again my first choice was a JD but i looked at case has well they just didnt seem interested in this city boys desire to own a tractor.

[LarryRB]

I haven't had good luck with Kubota's parts network. The fastest I've been able to get out of stock parts (and most are) is 4 days. I often have to wait 2 weeks. Had I known this beforehand, I'd have bought a brand with a better delivery system. I don't know if other brands are any better, but it's worth checking in to.
Steve
too bad I didn't know this before, I bought my Kubota from Messicks, south of Harrisburg Pa and get parts here on the CT/MA line in a day and half, and this has been consistant with them,,, They are a huge, huge dealer with 70 some odd employees and have butler steel bldgs with parts,, I've been there to see it myself,,, A few times I've ordered basic filter packs and get them next day, UPS, and not paying for next day service. Regular phone number there is 800-222-3373 and now they are advertising internet parts hotline at 877-260-3528

[Mark Oomkes]

Must just be something about tractor dealers. I didn't have a good experience when we bought ours, either.

Pretty much had my mind made up on a Massey. Had spoken with the Deere guy, Kubota was out at the time because of who the dealer was. Called the Massey dealer about a rental to finalize my decision as I had some brush hogging to do, they said no problem as long as you intend to buy it. I said yes, as long as I don't find something that I really don't like. Had the job ready to go with the customer informed that we would be there that day, get to the dealer, "That one just went out, but we have one you can try on the dirt pile in back".:fuming After talking with him some more: "You don't want a brush hog, you want a finish mower." :fuming even more. Now I admit I didn't know a ton about tractors at the time, but I did know I had a customer waiting and did know that I needed a brush hog because of the type of work I was going to be doing mostly. Ran it for 5 minutes, nice tractor. Got in my truck drove to the Deere dealer, signed the papers and off I went.

Dumb ass lost a sale because he lied or screwed up and then tried to tell me what I needed first time I ever walked in his door. Ended up buying a bunch of different attachments and a cab for the Deere. Still pisses me off. He was even told by the GM of the Toro distributor up the road to just give me what I asked for and not argue with me I pretty much knew exactly what I wanted.

[itsgottobegreen]

Hey here is an idea. Since pickering has no use for his M9000 and Chtucker is looking for a equal size tractor. How about some interforum selling and buying? :D

[chtucker]

Trust me, I am thinking about it, and I am sure Fred is too... Probably if I can hold out a couple of months it will be something that could happen.

[chtucker]

Just got a price on a Case JX95.... 40850.... from a dealer in Georgia

[Rick]

Just got a price on a Case JX95.... 40850.... from a dealer in Georgia
Maybe you could fly Fred to Georgia and he could drive it out to you.:huh

[chtucker]

I am assume the Case JX95 competes with the Deere 5525... if you build and price pretty much the same, the Deere is 7k more.....

Can't build and price on Massey site.

[hlntoiz]

Have you tried equipment trader (http://www.machinerytrader.com/default.asp?pdcl=1) you may get lucky.

[jerryjks]

Makes this tractor look better and better... http://letstalksnow.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13967&highlight=tn75da

[chtucker]

pm sent...........

[hlntoiz]

Here is a pretty nasty tractor plow for you......

13784

Found it at http://www.snowplownews.com/photo_gallery5.html#

[chtucker]

know who makes it?

[hlntoiz]

Check the link to the website I am sure you can find out there.

[flmusj]

Howard

Henke http://www.henkemfg.com/ makes a plow like that for loaders. I do not think that is a Henke plow though. There is a tractor like that on Ebay that has 2 days left on it.

[Mark Oomkes]

I'm pretty sure it is a Machinability.

[flmusj]

Here is a link to their site. www.machinability.com Nice looking plow and controller