Plow Time's How long [Archive] - Snowplowing-Contractors.com

Snowboy

11-13-2003, 08:13 PM

Hey guys all my pictures ddint get posted i have 5 lots that look like that. The front of them isnt to bad the backs look like they are big. The fence is standard i would say 8'. There is some employee parking these as well. The ditch is deep enough that i can put the snow there. I can also push it out across the street into a dtich lots of room on the opposite side of the rode where i can put the snow. The question is do i want to push it that far and waht hard does it do. I mean we are talking 4 to 500' if not more that it would have to be pushed.

I dont know why all my pics didnt come up in the forum. They spread about...

sno-mover

11-13-2003, 08:15 PM

That seans manageable with trucks possibly a v-blade/blizzard:D

Snowboy

11-13-2003, 08:15 PM

I dont want to puch the snow thoru the fence. I have seen what that does the the fence, it gets all bent and what not, i dont need to be spending my money on fixing propertys.

I have no equipment at the moment. I am starting out. I was to young in the past and i would have to pay huge insurance fee's. I still have to pay a huge insurance fee because i am new and havent ran a bussiness before.

sno-mover

11-13-2003, 08:16 PM

You have your work cut out for you how many trucks and what kind of equipment do you have?

Snowboy

11-13-2003, 08:25 PM

I have squat... I own a 96 3/4 ton truck. I was thinking of getting a bobcat to rent for the site, i just cant figure out how to make it profitable with it. Ok if i had that site and a few others sure my overhead would be covred and i could get away with doing these places for less. I am sure i have as much overhead if i invest is the proper equipment as a normal company would always have.

What i mean is they would have what i have my 1st year ongoing if not more.

make any sence ?

Lawngodfather

11-13-2003, 09:31 PM

I wont bid unless I see it in person

That drawing means nothing to me.

How can I visualise the dementions?

There might be a drain that needs to be gone around there etc...

Snowboy

11-13-2003, 09:37 PM

I have seen it i know the obstacles. I am putting it here for you guys to see sinc ei am new and want to bid on it. I want to do it with my truck or a bobcat or find someone who has a bobcat and pay him hourly.

Lawngodfather

11-13-2003, 09:43 PM

Drive over there pretend you are plowing it, time it.

After you have done that, take the time and times it by 175%.

That should get you a better time, then times that by your hourly rate.

BRL

11-13-2003, 09:45 PM

Snowboy,
I put all of your threads into one. The reason that happened was you clicked New Thread instead of the Reply Button.

IMO If I were you, I would find a qualified sub to do it; or a friend or other contractor & give these contracts to them to do with the stipulation that they hire you as a sub to help them. This way you can get experience with this kind of work, and then you will be able to determine equipment needs & pricing for your self in the future. These are not easy lots to learn with either. When I started I was a sub for a guy doing these types of lots & it was a great experience, & helped me greatly with getting started on my own. Good luck.

Lawngodfather

11-13-2003, 09:47 PM

Even better BRL.............

Snowboy

11-13-2003, 09:59 PM

Yeah the more i think about it, the more i think i should get someone with more knowladge about the biz do it with me.

so draw up a contract with this stateing i would work on site with them ?

So assume i get someone to help me with it and i am a sub should i expect to get more money then a sub since i have found the site as well as know who to contact ?

I might be able to get someone to put in a good word for me about choseing us to get the contract.

Snowboy

11-13-2003, 10:02 PM

Big up's to BRL for editing my posts and putting it in one spot. Much easier for me to keep track of now. :canada

BRL we should hook up and go snowboarding sometime.. What you ride ?

Pickering Snow

11-14-2003, 02:23 AM

Have read and seen all the pics i agree with BRL i admire your motivation however like lawngod father said thats alot of realstate to start out on . One question kinda comes to mind do you have a good chance of getting these contracts? i guess i ask this question only because around here most companys of that size or there property managers always want to know how much equipment you own and lib insur etc etc. I would once again look for a contractor and stipulate that you will sub to him for the propertys mentioned .

on another note i still do sub one job for a guy that owns no equipment he subs everything out to everyone the reason i have continued to do this for him is because 1 i like plowing the place and 2 he pays top rate i guess i said all of this to not discourge you but incourge you to poss get these contracts and maint them but use subs to do the work just be sure you use reliable subs and all of your ness insurance is in place.

Snowboy

11-14-2003, 06:33 AM

I have no idea if i would get these property's. They belong to 1 company, thats one of the reasons i was wanting to do it because its A) 5 mins from my house B) there are 5 in a row C) It would be a hell of a chalange. I can get the equipment like a loader. I know someone who can get that for me.

About doing the site with subs i would be leary that they wouldnt show. Insurance is a problem for me i can get it but very $$$$$$. I think i might wait for insurance and then go after these jobs.

Since i am new i dont know how to price these and still make money. I keep thinking to myself when i was priceing the job that i was high and with the costs associated i wouldnt be maleing much.

Adams Plowing

11-14-2003, 09:42 AM

One other thing you were planning on only having one piece of equipment and not using any subs if the macinery you chose to rent or buy breaks in the middle of the night and thats the only piece of equipment you have the lots not going to get done and im sure there not going to be happy with that and they may drop you then you have stuff set up IE rental ins and everything else that you will still hae to pay and you will have no cash influx to pay the bills... for something like that i would definatly have another piece of machinery on site and or atleast a backup truck ready for action incase of breakdowns.

wyldman

11-14-2003, 09:53 AM

Now that this thread has been merged,and i see the size of all the properties,it is way out of your league.You would need lots of equipment to do a proper job at a location like that.Lots of salt too.Your priced way too low as well,for a seasonal in this area.

mikegamb

11-14-2003, 07:14 PM

the last ones design looks like one i do.ill get some pics up during the week of the place but with 2 trucks running it takes a little over an hour.if im plowing it alone it takes 2 hours

Lawngodfather

11-14-2003, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by Snowboy
$$$$$$. No offence is given, but you have refered to money many times since we have tried to discourage you from obtaining these on your own.

Let it be known that there is always other involved while working as a sub. Learning, experiance, referances just to name three that will be a life long lesson in it's own.

How will you learn to do these and bid lots like these without ever being behind the wheel of a plow truck?

You can't.....

Please take the advice of working for the sub "you" appoint to the manager.

There is more in this than money.

Big Nate's Plowing

11-14-2003, 11:37 PM

couldnt have said it any better Mike, it is out of your league for a 1 man band or even 2 people/ 1 truck 1 bobcat. as for money.... I cant comment on $$ figures, you develop a feel for it and a feel for the ammount of time it takes for a lot to get plowed. after a while it is second nature and you can flip out a number without getting a calculator or posting on a message board. if you want to try and "manage" that I would bid it out at $250 an hour and round up 3 subs, 2 for work and 1 as a backup.

Nate~

Big Nate's Plowing

11-14-2003, 11:46 PM

also;
Just remember that it is your a$$ on the line if something goes wrong, these people dont care if your truck breaks or anything happens. Mess up just once and your liable to be in a world of hurt especially financially if you have lined up alot of equipment. and I highly doubt that you will land this contract because your are avoiding the insurance topic. no insurance=no plowing around here

Nate~

Disclaimer: these posts are not a flame or harassment, it is telling it like it is.

Pickering Snow

11-15-2003, 12:54 AM

nate ditto on the lack of talk of lib insur and all of god people said AMEN:greenange

mikegamb

11-15-2003, 02:41 PM

no insurance huh?

well i better never see you around my neck of the woods.you would be out of biz so fast your head would spin.then you would be doing this :headwall

Snowboy

11-15-2003, 05:26 PM

COLOR=darkblue]Ok guys you got me figured all wrong.. Before the thought comes into your mind about bashing me....[/COLOR]

I posted on ******** this about my operating expese's and i thought i did that here as well... I did figure insurance, come on i am not that stupid i might be 25 and young but i want to live still and not be in debt for the rest of my life. No company here would take me on as a contractor without insurance.

Here we are, here is my operateing expenses and what i need to star up and i am most likely missing a few things here.

This is what i would have to invest to do this job.
ALL PRIVES CANADIAN

Fuel $800.00 year
Insurance $5,000.00 year
Salter $7,469.25
Bobcat $8,337.50
Oil / Lube $60.00
Maint $1,000.00
Depreciation of truck. not sure how to figure this out
Phone $260.00
Cell $260.00
Pager $60.00
Salt 40yards $2990

Total $32236.75 or $24725.21 USD

ok i know that direct cost of the plow and salter have to be spread out over how long i want to keep it for.

I have given it some thought and i would like this contract but i would be doing it with friends already in the bussiness. I would work with them on this jobsite as well as there's. They have 3 plow trucks and a salt/plow truck. I might salt the place myself with a salter or contract it to them.

Snowboy

11-15-2003, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by Lawngodfather
No offence is given, but you have refered to money many times since we have tried to discourage you from obtaining these on your own.

Let it be known that there is always other involved while working as a sub. Learning, experiance, referances just to name three that will be a life long lesson in it's own.

How will you learn to do these and bid lots like these without ever being behind the wheel of a plow truck?

You can't.....

Please take the advice of working for the sub "you" appoint to the manager.

There is more in this than money.

So snowgodfather i wish you lived closer to me so i could get you to plow this place for free for me since its about the experiance.

I have to survive as well you know. I have to pay for the repairs to my truck my fuel my plow my salter. I cant get that paid off by doing things for free. I have limited plow experiance and the most i would get here is $5000 i have already spoken to Wlydman about subbing for him. I would make nothing subbing cuz of my age and experiance. The insurance alone would be over $2000 I do not collect unemployment insurance like most guys do here in the winter that work in the ladnsacpe industry.

I have a fulltime job where i regualry work at i do this in my spare time and have been for 2 years already except i was doing sidewalks but i know how long it took 1 guy in a truck, 1 in the loader and me doing the walks to do the building i used to worke at.

Snowplowing is about money and the experiance, you cant tell me you would go into bussiness just to earn nothing ?
Everyone on this site doesnt snowplow for the heck of it they do it to earn a income i want to do the same i want to be able to just do this and not have to workfull time where i work now.

If i am wrong please let me know but dont tell me you do it for the fun of it only.

Dave.

W-n-K Landscaping

11-15-2003, 07:04 PM

Snowboy-

I admire your spirit, but please do not take what the experienced people here are saying as bashing. In the begining wiht your posts it seemed that you were concerned more with $$$$ than anything else. What everyone here is trying to tell you is that if you really are this much at a loss for the bidding on this project, then it MIGHT be out of your league at his point in time. It would behoove you to work for somebody else for a few years to get the experience you need to tackle such a large project. I understand that you have bils to pay, as do we all- I personally left my full time job this spring to go it on my own- and I have a family of 5 boys, my wife, and myself to support, as well as all of the business expenses.

Yes we all plow for the experience and joy of plowing, but what we are trying to tell you is that you need a few years of experience plowing to KNOW how long a lot will take you to plow, and what equipment you will need to use on any given plot. If I were in your shoes, since you have a full time job currently, I would work with your friends if they are already established in the business, or for someone who is to gain that experience. If Wyldman will hire you, work for him- ranted you might not make a ton of $$$ right now, but you will be better off in a few years to make a go of it on your own. Taking the sink or swim approach is not the best way to go about it- trust me on this one- I know first hand. Not everyone can make things work by going that route.

So to end this post, I would say that from the sounds of things you are on the right track, you have done your homework, and have the numbers down good- what you are lacking in is the hands on experience that will allow you to be able to estimate times and from that the $$$ figure to charge for any particular job. You can only get that by DOING it- and the smart way to do it would be to work for somebody else, take notes, and LEARN while you work. You won't get rich quick, but you will gain the INVALUABLE experience you need to succeed. IMO if you are close to Wyldman and he is willing to work with you- then you are in a better spot than most of us since you have somebody who is so willing to mentor via the internet, and you would be able to learn first hand from the expert. That is in my opinion the very best way to start that will ensure your success in years to come. Since you are only 25- you will hopefully have many years more to enjoy what you learn.

Oh, and I think I speak for most of us here when I say that I/we started plowing because it is something we Love and enjoy- the making $$$ part is just icing on the cake. Icing that took many years of hard knocks to be able to say we have the experience to handle the bigger accounts.

Bill

I do not mean anything in his post to bash- this is simply te opinion of someone who is VERY close to your age and who is speaking from experience.

wyldman

11-15-2003, 07:27 PM

Lets give him a chance here. :D

I have been talking to him a lot via e-mail and PM,as he is about 20 mins from me.He is trying to learn,and has been asking for my help on this matter.I will be helping him out with this quote,and maybe offering him some some work with us to gain some experience.I will you get this contract if you really want it,and show you how to do it.We will supply the equipment and manpower,and you can help there as well.When you have the experience and equipment,you can have it.No strings attached.

Most of the guys are right though,as it takes a lot of time and money to get into this kind of stuff.Don't expect to pay off an $8000.00 plow in one season of plowing,or expect it to fully support you right off the bat.

If your still interested,the other sub offer still stands,but I need to know ASAP so i can finish setting up a route for last minute stuff by Monday.I also have some spare Westerns if you need a blade cheap.

Snowboy

11-15-2003, 07:30 PM

thanks Bill :D

I didnt think i wasbeeing bashed really it sounded lightly that i was beeing harped on and i felt that i was getting the wool over my eye's treatment.

So beeing i have a fulltime job i cant guarentee that i can work for Wyldman all the time so i really wouldnt be makeing much money with him since times i might not be out of work in time to start out plowing. I loose money for everytime i cant show up $500. So to loose $500 everytime i cant come right away thats would add up and i wouldnt make any money between that fuel and insurance i would be paying Chris for me to plow his lots and i also dont have a guarentee of hours.

I know i gain experiance by plowing with someone but i cant justify takeing time off work or calling in sick if i am not makeing any profit.

I have wanted to start plowing earlier but i wasnt 25 so i wouldnt get insurance and its hard enough now to get it.

I thought i could do this place alone but looking at my costs and to make any $$ from the job i have to have more people to justify the job, more people that know more then i do abot the biz. I know friends are willing to to help me on priceing and timeing which is the important thing and actual plowing i have a good idea about it but not hands on i know some of the do's and dont's.

I just want to get the ball rolling i dont want to work fulltime where i am now for life and if i am going to get in the biz now is the time to start learning
Thanks for the help and advise guys it is appriciated and i am listening to it all.

Dave :canada

W-n-K Landscaping

11-15-2003, 07:30 PM

I knew I was right about you Wyldman- you wouldn't want to move down into upstate NY by any chance would ya?! I'd love to get a chance to work with you!!! Maybe next year I'll try to make a swing up you way to meet you in person- you ave certainly impressed me online so far. Thanks for all of your help here.!!

Bill

wyldman

11-15-2003, 07:42 PM

Dave - I told you the sub contract was for $5500.00,or 100 hours guaranteed.If we only have to plow 30 hours this year,you still get paid the full amount.If we plow 150,you get paid additional for the extra 50 hours.You can claim back a lot of your GST too,so that is like adding 7% as well.

If for some reason you don't show up,and i have to bring in another sub to cover your route,we backcharge $500.00 to cover that expense.I'm sorry,but that's the way it works.Do you get paid if you miss work ?

I'm still willing to help you out if you want,just can't get down that way until mon night or so.

sno-mover

11-15-2003, 07:45 PM

I completely agree with starting out as a sub, thats exactly what I am doing, I work for a contractor, and I plow large comerical business, the best way to gain experience.

Snowboy

11-15-2003, 07:56 PM

Chris - I know you have to do that. I do get paid for work when i call in sick yes thats only because i bank my hours for winter thou. :D

I am not asking for you to make special arangements for me if i miss plowing i just dont want to get myself into a situation where i might not be able to help you out. I dont want a bad rep, i want to be able to be there all the time.

What type of equipment can you get for this site ? The loader might be a little big but would help out i am sure.

I as well want to get the ball rolling so i can get my act togther and equipment togther.

So if for some reason i cant make it to the shift on time for the milton site i as well get back charged right ? I am sure i can handle the milton site since its 10 mins from the house and 25 to work.

W-n-K Landscaping

11-15-2003, 08:04 PM

Snowboy-

I must have been writing my post at the same time as you!! I just went back to read another post and saw you reply- and your welcome. I hope that you can work out some arrangment- I know your situation exactly- I finally just it the bullet and left my fulltime job this year. BTW- I am 29, I just feel a heck of a lot older!!! LOL!! Especially having three kds of my own, and having custody of my two brother-in-laws. If you can arranage it, or work it out with wyldman somehow, tkae him up in his offer- it's deffinitely worth it. I would also just say to help him out in anyway possible- do what you can safely do, even if that is just as a back up right now while you work out a plan- even if you have to wait til next year to leave your job. Better to have a plan in place than to just "wing it", TRUST ME!! I know first hand, still struggling here, but getting there.

Bill

wyldman

11-15-2003, 08:05 PM

I will use whatever equipment is neccesary to get the job done.As I haven't seen it,and your drawings are not to scale and missing measurements,it will be hard to tell you what all will be needed until I see it.It would most likely be a loader,and a couple of trucks.I wouldn't recommend a salt pile on site,and I'd be really suprised if they even allow it.

mikegamb

11-15-2003, 09:08 PM

well your a year older than me and the only reason why i have the equipment to handle these jobs you got is because i had and still have lots of help.most of my equipment was handed down stuff but they all work great.i would advise you to get a really good friend or family member to help you.your going to need atleast 4 trucks to handle those properties.i think your better off with trucks than the bobcat.you can always rent a bobcat but not a truck with a plow.put a add in the paper for subs because your going to need a few of them to work and for backups.but if i was you i wouldn't take all of them only one and thats it.this season im 90% res and 10% commercial.im only going to take in 1 big lot and 1 or 2 small ones like a CVS type lot.the rest are res scattered near the comm places. i know your looking at the money end of things and i was the same way when i started getting commercial lots.last year i took on to much and my customers were not very happy with there service.mostly my res places.but i don't think we are bashing you.we are guiding you in the right direction.

i think mike (lawngodfather) speaks for all of us.

:headwall sorry i just had to use this again lol

Lawngodfather

11-15-2003, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by Snowboy
So beeing i have a fulltime job i cant guarentee that i can work How are you going to do these accounts if you can't take off work to service them....

This is included in what we are telling you....

There is a lot to learn......Must learn to run a biz and give estimates.

In doing so, the first thing you should expect is to get burnt, might even get burnt bad. No forum is going to keep you from getting burnt.

Dude you have no idea, I want my cake and eat it to, but it's still baking, and will be for a long time.

Pickering Snow

11-16-2003, 03:29 AM

Wow thats a very giving gesture on wyldmans part and to worry about wether your gonna get back charged if you dont show mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm somebody else has to get paid should that come out of chris's pocket . Has far has making it to the job site understand this snow buss is 24/7 from know til april nothing comes before it you need to have some type of relationship with your day time job or you might has well hang it up snow dosnt come on our time it comes when it comes day night doesnt matter

Before i left the dealership i had a agreement for snow and they understood i wouldnt be there if it did snow looking back know after being on my own since april i think that was a very giving relationship i had with them dont know if i could allow my guys to do that to me when i already have a days worth of work on the appointment sheet . I think there is alot of things for you to consider here the biggest one being from a man here on this site with a big heart ready to step up to the plate and help you get you feet wet , I had a wydlman 16yrs ago and that is the reason iam were iam today.

Snowboy

11-16-2003, 06:22 AM

Snowboy

11-16-2003, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by Pickering Snow
Wow thats a very giving gesture on wyldmans part and to worry about wether your gonna get back charged if you dont show mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm somebody else has to get paid should that come out of chris's pocket . Has far has making it to the job site understand this snow buss is 24/7 from know til april nothing comes before it you need to have some type of relationship with your day time job or you might has well hang it up snow dosnt come on our time it comes when it comes day night doesnt matter

Before i left the dealership i had a agreement for snow and they understood i wouldnt be there if it did snow looking back know after being on my own since april i think that was a very giving relationship i had with them dont know if i could allow my guys to do that to me when i already have a days worth of work on the appointment sheet . I think there is alot of things for you to consider here the biggest one being from a man here on this site with a big heart ready to step up to the plate and help you get you feet wet , I had a wydlman 16yrs ago and that is the reason iam were iam today.

I never asked for wlydman aka Chris to give me special treatment. I know he has a bussiness to run and i would do the same thing.

I understand he would have to back charge me $500 if i cant make i on time. He knows that i know that.

Snowboy

11-16-2003, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by Lawngodfather
How are you going to do these accounts if you can't take off work to service them....

This is included in what we are telling you....

There is a lot to learn......Must learn to run a biz and give estimates.

In doing so, the first thing you should expect is to get burnt, might even get burnt bad. No forum is going to keep you from getting burnt.

Dude you have no idea, I want my cake and eat it to, but it's still baking, and will be for a long time.

So i should quit my fulltime job for $5500+GST for the winter and then in the summer i do what ? Crawl back to my employer and say take me back im done plowing for the year ? So if i am correct i should give up $23'000 job for $5'500 job ? I do not have enough lawn bussiness and landscape work to keep me bussy in the summer.

I dont think i will learn how to estimate jobs with Chris since his jobs are already spoken for. Chris has diffrent overhead then i do and employes more then himself so i couldnt figure out cost of doing a job that way. I will have a plow route and i will plow it. I wont know how much salt he trowns down and how much the contract is worth and how he went abouts to figure that out.
I could be wrong here thou on that.

I have been burt i have screwed up. I did a sodding job middle of summer hot as hell. I had problems witht he rental co. No bobcat until afternoon. The bobcat was suposed to be there for 7am i had 20 yards of soil out on the street and 40 yards in the front yard. Sod came early am it started to rain heavily around 1pm i move the soil into the back yard, the rain stoped but there was enought to make a mess out of things and add moisture onto the sod rools. The front i was able to do the next day and a few rolls were burned. I thought i could put the sod in the shade and come back a day later, i was wrong. When i came back to do the backyard the sod was so hot it was steaming and the temp outside was 95. I screwd up the sod was toast brown and stinky with black liquid coing off of it when it was watred.

I came back in the fall I rented a Tractor with a tiller and a harly rake and spent a day turning over the old sod and soil.

I made nothing on this job and the people were very nice 9 but picky) and helped cover the cost of the new sod luckly.

Snowboy

11-16-2003, 05:23 PM

This it what it looked like after i burnt myself. The sod was so hot you couldnt hold it for long even with gloves so i burnt myself in both ways.

I know better now then to store sod. I know better now not to trust rental co's so much.

I dont think that i have learned everything thou, there is alot i still have to learn.

wyldman

11-16-2003, 05:42 PM

By subbing for someone else you WILL learn how long stuff takes,so you will have a better idea when it comes to quoting jobs.While I will not spill the beans on my entire operation,if you do decide to work for me,you will have the opportunity to learn anything,and everything you want from myself and my guys.I like guys who are well educated,and know their stuff.It makes for a better driver\operator.

Mick

11-16-2003, 05:52 PM

I think you're going through the same dilemna a lot of us have gone (or are going) through - How do I learn to run a snowplowing business while I'm holding down a full time job? This will be my fourth year and hopefully I'll make a profit for the first time. Even though I had a job where they literally didn't care if I came to work or not or took off early, I had some problems keeping up. Try as hard as I did, I still had a good customer who had to call someone else to put down some sand for them.

What I did was decide I wasn't going to worry about making a profit the first two years - I just wanted to use them for learning as much as possible about the business and technical end of plowing. For every mistake, I made sure I learned what to do to not make that one again. Like the time I wound up plowing a mile and a half of private road for $40 (agree on a price before you start).

One thing I decided not to do that first year was to take on any commercial accounts. The expectations are too high for someone who has other commitments - like a full time job. I stuck with driveways and a small wide open parking lot. I also didn't worry too much about being too high or low on bidding, either. I just didn't consider making any multi-year contracts so if I figured out I was low then I could use that as a learning experience for the next year.

I don't know if any of this helps you, though. Good luck.

Lawngodfather

11-16-2003, 06:08 PM

One advantage I had/have over many of you.

My full time job is snow/ice and lawn care/landscaping. Always has been, I have had other jobs to keep from going insane while doing nothing, but I was let off to do my real job.

Before the smart alec remarks from you keep rolling out, stop read back to what is being expressed and think about it.

No where did anyone write quit the "JOB" and go at it full time, nor are we even worried about IF your boss will let you off, or whatever, we are telling you what to epect that YOU did not expect any of us to tell you.

Before you jump the gun again, read what is posted.
There is some good stuff written for any beginner business person to enter the snow removal field.

Now to you this might be a smart alec post;

Since you don't have the knowlage or equipment walk away from these.

Snowboy

11-16-2003, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by Lawngodfather
One advantage I had/have over many of you.

My full time job is snow/ice and lawn care/landscaping. Always has been, I have had other jobs to keep from going insane while doing nothing, but I was let off to do my real job.

Before the smart alec remarks from you keep rolling out, stop read back to what is being expressed and think about it.

No where did anyone write quit the "JOB" and go at it full time, nor are we even worried about IF your boss will let you off, or whatever, we are telling you what to epect that YOU did not expect any of us to tell you.

Before you jump the gun again, read what is posted.
There is some good stuff written for any beginner business person to enter the snow removal field.

Now to you this might be a smart alec post;

Since you don't have the knowlage or equipment walk away from these.

I have only seen smart alec remarks from you.

I am learning i do hear what everyone is saying. I have asked logical questions.
I was speaking from a bussiness point of view as to why would i leave my full time job for $5500.

So since i dont know anything about this you tell me godfather how do i do it ?
How should i get into this bussines how would you do it if you were in my shoe's tell me please how should i try to start a snowplow bussiness ? You say i cant do both have a fulltime job and plow but yet i shouldnt quit my fulltime job.

Since you say you know so much about the biz then tell me how i should start off ?

About the large contract it was an idea i had about doing it on my own i asked for advise from you people here if i should take it own by myself and if so what would be the best way of doing it. I have since learned from you and others here that i should take it upon my self to do this job its too big for me and i would end up looseing everything i put into it and would be no better off. I have decided to look for a person who is willing to show me how its done. They get the contract and i help out on the site.

Lawngodfather

11-16-2003, 06:29 PM

There are a few words to answer this........

START SMALL.............

My last post to this.

Snowboy

11-16-2003, 06:30 PM

So i shouldnt even plow this site with someone whos an expert ?

mikegamb

11-16-2003, 06:39 PM

hey guys look hes going to do what he wants so just forget about trying to help him out. :headwall

now this is a new form and i think its going to be alot better here than at PS so lets stop doing this :argue

now i was the one that did at times start with others,but i came here to get a fresh start.so why don't we cool down and enjoy eachothers company and are new site.lets not turn this place into the site we left last week :)

W-n-K Landscaping

11-16-2003, 06:43 PM

Snowboy-

I will admit that your posts do come across with an accusatory tone. I have let this slide due to Wyldmans post earlier, and since he has spoken with you via e-mail and on the phone, and I value his judge of character. That being said, I see that you have realized that the job is too big for you, and that you can start small/work with someone else( even as a sub) and still get the ball rolling while working your fulltime job. It is tough, but it can be done- there are several people here who have started that way. I am not trying to be condescending, but please realize that you are responding almost as if we were attacking you. We are not, we are only trying to help you in this matter, and in your future ventures, so please take a moment to re-read everyones and your posts before you respond. I will admit that some of the posts can come across rather scathing, but they are only replying in kind to your words- whether they are meant to be harsh or not, and I prefer to think they are not meant to come across that way, but some of them do- and that is why people are starting to get short with you. I hope that things work out for you in your endeavors.

Bill

Snowboy

11-16-2003, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by mikegamb
hey guys look hes going to do what he wants so just forget about trying to help him out. :headwall

now this is a new form and i think its going to be alot better here than at PS so lets stop doing this :argue

now i was the one that did at times start with others,but i came here to get a fresh start.so why don't we cool down and enjoy eachothers company and are new site.lets not turn this place into the site we left last week :)

I dont see whats so wrong with working for someone like Chris on this site. Chris gave me that idea in the 1st place and it sounded like a smart one but you think diffrent huh ?

Yeah lighten up on me already i wasnt dissrespecting anyone here i was just looking for good advise not trying to cause problems.

mikegamb

11-16-2003, 07:04 PM

you need to do what you want to do.if you feel by getting one other person to help you with all those lots that you can handle it with no problems than do it.i don't feel thats going to be enough help but do what you think is best.

if i was you i would rather hand it over to another company but make a deal that you have to sub at those places.i have done that many times and its worked out for the better.

i still learn something new everyday in my bizz.i make good moves and i also make bad ones.i still get burned all the time its just part of running your own company.live and learn :D

Snowboy

11-16-2003, 07:21 PM

mikegamb -

Thats what i want to do with chris posibly. I wont take this on myself as i had antisipated. I would be a sub at this site for him.

Im cool with that :cool:

T-Zab

11-16-2003, 07:24 PM

Snowboy, Your best bet would be to START SMALL. Listen to these guys. Get a blade for your truck and do a few driveways, or small lots. Dont think your going to jump in headfirst and make money. Wyldman offered you a hell of a deal, no experience and good pay? I have been at this a few years now. Im self employed in the carpentry contracting field. I still dont have the balls to make a go at it as a snowplowing contractor. I have buisness experience, insurance, and capital to back me. But i dont feel I have enough knowledge to make a go, and at least break even. Yes I have subbed for 5 years. Started with the worst contractors, and now I hope to be plowing for the best this year. (At least biggest, not very impressed so far). I have taken notes on all my different sites. They can all be unique. Square footage is not allways the answer ( I do not bid carpentry this way like most)
Experience and my GUT are what make me money! I know what a job will cost and my time required to complete it properly. Yes I loose work but I have not had any time off do to the economy either. What this boils down too is EXPERIENCE dude. I dont fly by the seat of my pants. When I quit my day job I learned everything I could about the BUISNESS per say. I knew I had the carpentry skills it was the buisness I feared. Same holds true for plowing. I think I have learned the skills now the buisness end it is where I am lacking. :) Your young full of vigor and ready to rock. Get the skills ( Wyldman?) Then go take on the world.
T