Help Misdiagnosed? Tranny!!!

[Mac_Muz]

After installing my rebuilt 700 R4 I have the same problem!

Can I have made some wicked error? Can the tranfercase be the cause?

Just now I am in shock! I am not thinking all that clearly I guess..

There is no sounds other than normal engine sounds in any gear, but the truck will hardly move.

There is 11 pints of ATF in the tranny...

The 208c Transfer case is filled..

How can I test the transfercase?

Mac

[wyldman]

Are you sure the transfer case is in gear,and not in neutral ? and is it adjusted correctly ? Maybe it broke something inside the case?

I don't think they use a sleeve to connect the trans output shaft to the TC input,the female splines are part of the input gear.If they did use a sleeve,did you leave it out ? Or maybe the input gear on the 208 sheared the splines off ?

It could be the tranny too,not rebuilt correctly.

OK,simple test,does it hold in park ? If it does,then the transfer would be connected to the rear wheels,and the trans must be connected to the transfer case.So if it holds in park,then the trans is most likely you problem.Try that first,and see what happens,then we can speculate from there.



If it rolls in park,then it's probably the transfer case.

[Mac_Muz]

I have tested the axels on the rear end by jacking up the rear wheels and lowering each one, one at a time onto a 2x4, to spin the wheels. I can't spin the wheel in the air in park with the other wheel on a 2x4.

I do NOT have limited slip/possi traction of any kind. The wheel with the least amount of traction moves this truck

I would say no axel has snapped off..

Park holds hard..

I tried pushing the truck on level cement with the help of my wife, in park and in neutral.. We could push the truck in neutral

There are no parts unused. Every last flat washer is correct. There are no leaks. I was a detailed oriented foreign car tech once. Think fussy.. I am not aware of any sleeves.

I did not change the shifter adjuster or the transfercase adjuster.

With the rear wheels in the air and my wife at the steering wheel, I had her brake, shift to a gear, release the brake, and watched the drive shaft spin in forward and reverse, always stopping the drive shaft with the brake between shifts on my commands to do each thing step by step.

Then I drove just out the doorway in 2H, Shifted the tranny to N, and shifted to 4H, and drove ahead and backed up just a short distance of 5 feet. This seems better some how..

With my foot on the brake I shifted to N for the tranny, and shifted to N for the transfer case, and released the brake, then stepped on the brake again and went to drive... I reved the engine then, in drive and neutral for the transfercase... Nothing happened... good right...

Again I stepped on the brake, and shifted the tranny to N, and the transfercase to low 4 and it grinded to hell!!!!!!

I tried that several times and each time grinding was like being in a stick shift car in neutral and trying for first with no clutch... It was that bad... Not good, and this is new!

What can be turning the output shaft in the tranny like that when the tranny is in neutral?

Even in 4H and 4 Low rpm must be much higher than normal to move.. In 2 H rpm is much higher about 3,000 rpm to just move.

I am fearing harming the overhaul.....

I took a look at the splines on the out put shaft and the transfercase when I took the tranny down and split the trans from the transfer case, and saw no damage.

I have no idea what I might test at this point. I can't see how the tranny out put shaft can be turning in neutral, but it must be!

I can't tell if the transfer case is the original problem, and or if the tranny rebuild is now a problem.

I know I am 700 hundred dollars lighter. I know that much....

I will do any tests offered...

My tranney haynes does not say a word about the transfer case, nor does it say how many pints of ATF the tranny takes!!!!!

My Chiltons says nothing of the power flow in the transfercase, only a diagram blown apart showing the transfercase backwards. The picture is wrong and shows the front drive shaft flange on the drivers side!!

There is a monkey do this monkey do that to strip the transfercase, but no trouble shooting.

I am dead meat.... Ain't it great to not be me? LOL Mac

[Big Nate's Plowing]

the drag of the trans fluid in the trans while in neutral is enough to spin the output shaft/input on the t/c, while in neutral. shut the truck off put trans in n and shift t-case back into gear. all 203-205-208 will grind if you pause in N while shifting, even our durango with a 241

[Big Nate's Plowing]

DING :headwall oh and the older 700r4's take 11 quarts 11 pts will barely fill the torque converter. a pan change requires 5 quarts and that is 10 pints

[wyldman]

OK,it sounds like the transfer case is fine.It holds in park,so you have a mechanical connection from the wheels to the tranny,as the parking pawl is in the back half of the trans.

Nate is correct about the transfer case grinding.Shut it off and put it back in gear.

Did you really put 11 pints of fluid in it ? or 11 quarts.It should be 11 quarts,or 23 pints.If the fluid is low,it won't go.Does it show on the dipstick as correct ?

So it's either not enough fluid,or an internal trans problem.

[Mac_Muz]

Damn Chiltons if 11 qt is it!!!!!!! I added 11 pints and it appears to be full on the stick!!! I will check this again!!!!!!!!!!

Oh man if this is it oh oh oh I can't even think... gotta get that book and see it again!!!!! Mac

[wyldman]

Whenever you add fluid,you need to run the truck,and run the gearsift through all the ranges,then check it again.It may take a while to read properly,as all the fluid must drain down the dipstick tube to get an accurate reading.

When doing a fresh tranny,I usually dump in 2 gallons (some of that goes in the torque convertor before it goes on),and fire it up.Then add a quart at a time until it gets close.Let the truck warm up,and run it through the gears again before topping it off.I always leave it a hair low,so when the fluid gets to full temp after your test drive,it will be real close to the full hot mark.

[BWhite]

Mac how did you make out . Hope it was just fluid level problem

[Mac_Muz]

I have found 10.5 qts listed on line now... I was doing what the book said... I don't do this every day and a good thing it is I don't.

I am a tad more tham miffed just now, but not with you guys..

I am angery with Haynes books for not having anything and this is the haynes just for trannies.... The chiltons has a value for just dropping the pan evidently...

I have another Chiltons book here which is not mine, for Fords and it has both the total and the change amounts...

I am angery at me for not seeing the error right away...

You guys will be posted on what happens next... I wonder how interesting that will get?

Any idea what running back and forth with this atf level may cause? Damage report coming shortly....

Nate do you own a gun? If so and you see me, would you mind??? Oh Man what a time this has been and may be.

This is the only auto tranny I have ever had in my life and i wish I never had one.... I would rather do 10 clutches than tinker with this auto tranny...

I just might seek out a basket case std with everthing from bell to punkin in the spring..... Mac

[BWhite]

Haynes manuals are ok in a pinch . But I always buy the factory manuals new or used for my cars/trucks

[urethane dino]

Mac dont feel to bad, I have been messing with a hydro clutch issue for a few weks with my only manulal tranny truck. When they dont work right they all suck.
Dino

[Tileman]

Mac if it was just low on fluid, no farther than you ran it, it showld be fine once you get it full. Sounds like the converter was just getting some fluid, and that was making it stall and rev the motor.




Tileman

[Mac_Muz]

You guys are great. I feel a fool myself... I should have known better, but I didn't...

We have done it.... I have 10.5 Quarts in there now.. I probably am slightly low, but things seem well...

I have to use the brake now when shifting, and the truck wants to PULL.

It is snowing, and it is dark EST here in NH we have periods of scattered dark every night...

In scattered daylight I will test drive warm and re-check the level and a few other things..

urethane dino, Whats up with that? I am pretty new here and have some theory of what you are doing, just no specs...

Std shift and I get along far better than things that run on magic.

I would like to help over ask for help, but I am dated as I got out of foreign cars in 85'.

This truck I bought in 87 used and it is my first auto tranny vehical.

The tranny I installed in 99' as new rebuilt came from a Blazer which was crashed 1,500 miles after the tranny had been rebuilt, so that TC was prefilled...

2 times a year I change the fluid and that takes 4 days time... drain, fill, drive and repeat 4 days.... if there is a better faster way I'ld like to know it....

I have other things as of late as well a little gray cloud following me it seems....

2 days ago I broke my favorite shades... Today I broke my reading glasses, and tonight going back out I popped the top button off my trousers ..... see what I mean?

Thanks guys...... Mac

[Tileman]

Mac I'm going out on a limb here, but this is what we do with all of our auto trans.


Drop pan, remove filter, let drain (drink a cold one beer or pop) if converter has drain plug remove it let drain , most don't. Install new filter, pan gasket reinstall pan. Fill with fluid as Chris said earler in this post. Make sure you reinstaled plug in converter.


Due this 2 times a year: once in fall before plow season and again after the season is over in the spring. New fluid is the life of a auto trans. If the truck is used real hard through the season change it again. (3times)

If you do this 2 or 3 times a year you will get most of the bad oil out, change filter ever time.

Fluid is cheap and so are filters and pan gaskets.

Tileman


P S Happy that is all that was wrong.

plowing! plowing! plowing! [B]

[Mac_Muz]

Tileman, I do Drop pan, remove filter, let drain 4 times around 2 to 3 times a year...

My old TC had no drain and this is the same, no drain. I drive one day and change that , again one day and change that, and the last day I drain the pan, then drop it and swap out the filter.

With the book saying 10 pints, and the time I spent fussin on this and other things my brain went into widows mode I guess...

Other things happened before X-Mass and I became very over tired. Something happened to my elbows which is no fun either.

December was a hellish month here for sure. I try to make fun of it and me as it happens as bitchin don't do alot...

Some guys have pressure gauges and temp gauges...

I might be interested in these... I think the pressure gauge would be installed where the test port for pressure is located.. Seems lodgical..

When I installed the drain in the pan I had to look around some to see the fitting would fit with out contacting the valve body..
I did that....

I am guessing a temp sender would be pan mounted as well, but is that right?

Since this problem came up with no cause I can see, as I feel it was a pump failure more or less to begin with, maybe due to over heating, a temp gauge seems like a good idea.

The tech wanted no part of my wishes for certain items as add ons. I wanted to do some of the things suggested here, and said so...

So perhaps I will install these things...

Where might the temp sender fit best? Would it be bordon tube type, or electric?

.................................................. ....

Off Topic:

The day the tranny failed it happens that when I was plowing and backing for the first time in this lane I backed into a tree limb up high and out of my sight. I had the cap rear window up and so I broke the window frame, and the tempered glass didn't shatter.

I can straighten the cap well enough, but the frame is dead dead dead bent twisted and torn. The cap is perhaps older than the truck. Something I got from a junk yard years ago.

I would like something to more or less keep out rain and water.

It might be nice if it was clear and could fit a power stay (gas shock thing they use on new windows these days) I had a old tired one laying around and it is still good enough to hold the weight of the frame and the glass...

I am looking for the cheapest way out... Just for now anyway...

A creative idea is needed.... If I had some 1/4 luan plywood I would cut and fit that.. Add a plexie glass window to that maybe..

Long ago the real hinge wore out and I made up a piano hinge fitment to the cap and the window frame. That too is currently bent, but I think I can get it straight enough to function.

I have no place to buy 1/4 lexan, and don't have any idea where to find it around here.. I would have to seek some where way down to Boston I guess, and PAY hard for it....

Seeing and keeping water out of the bed is the idea... Nothing fancy. Anyway we seem to have freezing sleet today....

Ain't winter great? :huh Mac

[BWhite]

A plastics business that supplies machine shops will carry polycarbonate sheet (lexan) . There should be many around nashua, manchester/ concord etc

[BWhite]

There is something to be said for the machines that allow a 100% trans fluid change its pricier to have it done maybe every so often .

[urethane dino]

You can take the inspection cover off the tranny and drill and tap a hole into the T/C. Then install a pipe plug. That way you can drain it if you like.
We are working on a fix with aftermarket suppliers for the clutch cylinders. If need be we will convert back to mechanical linkage, and eliminate the magic fluid that currently works the clutch fork.
Dino

[ratlover]

If you ever drop the pan I would put a drain plug in the pan. Makes life much easier/cleaner. I wouldnt do the converter but thats just me, no reason to IMO especially since you can flush the whole thing easy. JMO

To get 100% of the old fluid out and flush it is easy on a chevy trany(I hear some dodges are wierd but the general makes it easy)

Yank the cooler lines at the in and out. Stick the side puking into a empty bucket and the line sucking into a pail of fresh ATF. Start up the truck with it in park and watch it puck out the old and suck in fresh. You can stop when it runs clean or after you ran 12 or so Qs through it if it was fresh looking to begin with. You dont need to drop the pan every time IMO but if you do I would do it first and dump a few quarts in so it dosnt suck from a dry pan and then do the home done flush. Check the fluid with it warm and in P. and running

A helper to run the truck is a plus so you can concentrate on not running the trany dry or having it puke all over.

Sometimes it takes awhile for all the air bubbles and such to make thier way out so I would recheck in a few days. Too much is a bad thing since ATF can expand like crazy especially when hot and puck out the fill. Not that big of a deal untill it hits a hot manifold and lights up. alot of trucks have caught fire that way.

[campi]

Mac- Muz, hows that tranny doing let us know whats going on i hope its woking out for you!! Campi !!!!!

[Mac_Muz]

Lexan is like GOLD! $130.00 ish for 24"x 68"x 1/4"!!!!!!! Yikes..

No way am I gonna do that.... Off to the bone yard and maybe the lumber yard...
...........................

Not so sure I am going to be drilling holes in the Brand New TC anytime soon... Not that I can't, but with my luck I just don't dare.

I would probably miss one spec about 0.00001, and it would get caught in some check ball some where.......

I do have a pan drain.... I drain out the crud 2 times a year.. it takes 4 days for me more or less but not working too hard.

I drain the pan via the plug, and fill it... drive some, and drain that, until I have changed the amount.

And I use a case of 12 bottles. The last draining gets the new filter...

That is a old trick from days of yore: Sailor finds a whiskey bottle empty, and fills it 1/2 way with water.. heads of to the speak easy, and says Bar Keep filler up and refuses to pay... The bar keeper says Whoa, takes the bottle and pours off 1/2....

Sailor heads to the next place and does this untill he is either drunk or beaten up....

With the mess of lots more than the tranny and not having 1 thing wrong with the tranny showing a thing, that and it was great one second and gone the next, I was caught by surprise.

I know the damn thing takes more than 10 pints in my alledged noggin too, but seeing that in print in a book took away my common sence for a few hours..

Last change occured last spring as the cooling lines failed (one of em) I saw that dripping before it was a problem...

The only problem then was my wife was away, and my car was all apart getting painted.

Knowing the lines would be pretty long, and the ATF heavy, my motor bike was not much of a option for chasin parts..

So I hitched with my thumb... Oddly a guy on a bike stopped. I took the ride, and his bike broke down at the parts place!!! I fixed that with his tool kit.

He offered me a ride back, but how?????

Man the life I lead... Mac

[Mac_Muz]

Ok no stories...

How many of you run temp gauges?

Where is the sender installed?

What type of sender is it?

How many run pressure gauges?

Where did you get them, and how do you like them?

I am determined to come to a certain understanding with this tranny..... :headwall Mac

[BWhite]

Lexan is not expensive as plastics go . I used a material called Torlon in a small machine shop I had . A 3/16" x 1'x3' slab was $1,800.00 . The parts I made were about 3" x3" . It was expensive to make out of tolerance parts .

[Mac_Muz]

Ouch, I wouldn't want parts like those anytime soon.. This little project is a simple window.. A sheet 4x8 feet is 160 ish for lexan.

A cut piece is apx $130 to 24"x68" or what I need to make the window from...

Now I know I tend to be a tad tight.. No one needs to tell me that. I take pride in being tight for that matter..

I need to see and stop water cheap.... I paid 40 bucks for the cap in 91' or so, when I found it in a junkyard, and had need of keeping water out..

All the time I make due with stuff... During my car repainting I made by hand the steel repair panells I needed from flat sheet steel.

During that time I came on a air dam (valance) to fit a Volvo with front plastic inner fender liners as stock.

I fit the air dam easy as only one mount was broken, and I used a old sight hood from a Mauser modle 98 I happened to have on hand as a clamp. The air dam was also missing a small black plate apx 4" x 6" which covers a towing hook, so pokin' about some I discovered a black plastic oil drain pan with a big crack in the bottom. It looked just like a cover after I cut off the stuff that didn't look like a cover and drilled 4 holes..

I added the front inner fender liners to the rear wheel wells, with some modifications of course. I can't understand why Volvo made these for the front and not the rear either, but I have them in and doing there same job as the fronts do now...

I had been messin with the instrument cluster too. And after I installed it back in, I discovered one green turn signal indicator was lost some how..... Ain't always like that?

So out came the cluster, and off I went digging to find something that resembled the lost green lense, and sure enough a Quaker State Motor Oil Bottle looked just like that lense less most of the bottle ya see? I made 2 of them so as they would "match" and there they are today..

This window is no different, but lexan might not be the way to go... For sure it would work well, but the cost is too high..

That reminds me of a story about comma's but I had better save it for another time.

Tis likely my stories will get me in trouble around here one day... Mac

[Mac_Muz]

SO I drive to see the tech today, so he can set the tv cable.. No problem drive right down there... park, wait, he gets ready and the truck fails to start... HUH? A few tests happen and the starter is toast....

All I want is the tv cable set, and be gone right.... No way... It is close to my jobber I ask if I can supply my starter.. tech is nice says yeah sure.. I get a discount.. I walk and get it and get back. They have pushed the truck in.... I hand over the starter, and sit steaming knowing I can turn the solenoid copper washer, but there is no time for that these days...

I have no idea what I have done to deserve thus treatment, but I guess I wuz Baaaaad sometime...

Anyway things look pretty good for all but the window... I am thinking of walking just the same... man what a life.... Mac

[D&T Repair]

:D
I have absolutely no idea on what this whole thread is about anymore.....I am completely confused.
My head hurts trying to understand alot of the "stories"?

:eek:

:D