DOT Numbers for 10,000 lbs or greater

[CGSI]

Hi Guys.
Got home 3 weeks ago today and have been very busy with the business which is good. I was in tractor supply the other day and found out that my F-550 was liable to get a 2500 dollar fine because there was no DOT number(either state or federal) on the truck. The 3500 requires it too because it has a GVW and GVCW that meets the requirements.

It seems that all vehicles with aGVW of 10,001 pounds and greater used in any commercial application are now required to have a federal or state DOT number on it as of July 5th 2006. This is totaly new and the last day for any grace period was July 4th. I know 3 people now that got tickets.

Since I am only 15 minutes from Mass and 25 minutes from Conn i went with the federal which is good for interstate and intrastate and meets all requirements for the state law which was only inacted to meet the new federal requirements.

The only drawback to the federal USDOT number is that we are now subject to the Federal safety audits but the state DOT will be doing that if you have the state DOT number.

I was just curious if anybody else had known about this or to let everybody else know about it with trucks over 10,000lbs.
Seems like now if you have a 1 ton or greater there is not much advantage to not have a 26,001 or greater weight if you already have a CDL.

There are places online that will get you the USDOT number within hours for a fee between 25 and 50 bucks and then want to charge you anywhere from 100-250 for the filing of the permit. DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY. I went online and got the permit for free right from the FMCSA and had the number immediatley.

[Crash935]

I wonder if that isnt just a New York thing? I follow the Commercial Truck rules pretty close and havent seen anything about that here in MI or nationally.

[cat320]

Have not heard anything about that but if it is true for here to it would be up to the dmv to send out something in writing because that number should be filled with them also i would think.

Welcome back.

[JD PLOWER]

"Seems like now if you have a 1 ton or greater there is not much advantage to not have a 26,001 or greater weight if you already have a CDL."

The first advantage that comes to mind is the registration and insurance fee's from one tons to real commercial trucks. I have asked my insurance agent about the insurance and registration fees for F-800 or L8000 dumps (that I have considered purchasing this year) and let me tell you, I was fairly shocked when he told me what to expect. It was considerably more than the $2800 a year I pay for the f-550. Personally I wouldn't go out and buy a 26001 gvw vehicle due to additional regulations unless the fees were about the same.

[CGSI]

here is the NY excerpt and other excerpts from NY refer that it is to keep up with federal requirements so it may or may not pertain to everyone. http://www.dot.state.ny.us/markingregsnotice100504.pdf

[CGSI]

Have not heard anything about that but if it is true for here to it would be up to the dmv to send out something in writing because that number should be filled with them also i would think.

Welcome back.


Thanks Cat
We just registered the truck in Feb and they never mentioned it to us. I got blind sided with it and checked it out and its true. I got it before i got busted though and no I am all set.

[cat320]

Now you would think that one of the agencies would of notified you of this new rule . They act some times like your work for the state and know all this crap that they don't even know about some times.

It's like a cop said to me once when i forgot about the safty sticker on the truck you should be looking to see if it's going to expire. well to me it's only a peice of paper that they want there $$ cut for and does not afect the truck /car . I know i should keep on top of those things but who the hell rememebers about it insurance and stuff comes in the mail and you renuie but how many times do you look at the windo sticker.

[RibbleConstruction]

Here in nebraska it has been that way for years. I have had to have any truck that could reach a combined gross vehicle wieght of 10,000 lbs or more have a dot number. That means that even a half-ton pickup could need one. thats right. Any time your total wight goes over 10000. Once you get a number they are good on all your vehicles. So I put them on everything I own just to be safe. On a side note. Make sure you can read your name and where you are from also. Just the DOT number wont do it.I got a ticket for having not having "lincoln nebraska" on the side also.

[Earthscapes]

See this thread started in Feb.
http://www.letstalksnow.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12252

Plus it's Gross Vehicle Combined Weight 10,000# and over.
My 3/4 ton with my landscape trailer is well over 10,000#.

I got nailed the other day, everything was cool, except for the fact that my 2.5 gas can did not say OHSA on it. My 5's do but not the little one. He had to let it slide, because the can was empty and dry inside.

One landscaper paid over $1,500 in fines last week for not having DOT #'s, not having approved fuel containers and not having the fuel cans tied down.

[atgreene]

Lately the court reports in the paper show Maine DOT has been writing violations for " Failure to display proper vehicle identification". I assume it's DOT #'s. There has been a pile of them for a month or so.

[chtucker]

I got a warning... went right home and took care of it...


I need a CDL to tow anything above 6,500 lbs

I need to stop at weigh stations towing anything over 10,000lbs

I needed to change the plates on my vehicle to reflect the fact that I tow over 10,000lbs

Howard

[CGSI]

Lately the court reports in the paper show Maine DOT has been writing violations for " Failure to display proper vehicle identification". I assume it's DOT #'s. There has been a pile of them for a month or so.


Hi ATA
The local DMV office told a buddy of mine that he was crazy when he went in and asked them but they took his number and said they would research it and get back to him. He got a call an hour later and they told him he was right and that they were sorry that they were so ignorant of the new requirements and that they would start telling people when they come in to register. They also stated it was being done to keep everyone compliant with the federal law that requires this so as it looks it is a federal requirement and everyone should look into it if there vehicle meets the requiements.

I sure am not trying to wind people up for nothing but just trying to save them paying a hefty fine. If your local DMV says that you do not need it ask them to please put something in writing because if not you might get fined.

As far as the other sign requirements with company name and such the feds address that on there website as well. According to the federal law with my new USDOT number added, I am fully compliant.

[jakegypsum]

This really turned out to be a great thread for information. Thanks CGSI!


Today one of my trucks got stopped by the DOT and got a complete check over.

After the officer checked everything out, he stated to my driver that we didn't have a DOT number on the truck.
We have never had a DOT number posted on our trucks in the 40+ years that we have been in business nor have we ever had any problem with any officers in the past due to this subject.

Long story short, there was no fine but just a standard DOT write up stating that we need to rectify this ASAP. Basically get a USDOT number for the company and display it on the door.

The first thing I thought about, (once I heard this from my driver), was that I remembered this thread being posted several months back.

As soon as I had time to go on line later today, I brought up the LTS site and did a search for this peticular thread. Boom!
This thread came right up just as I remembered it.

Once I knew where to go I went right to the FMCSA site and entered all of my information. Approx 20 minutes later I was printing my confirmation and my USDOT number.

Very simple and a big help! (Like hitting the "easy button" at Staples).

Now I just need to have the emblems made up for the trucks.

Thanks again

Jake

[John Banks]

Now I just need to have the emblems made up for the trucks.

Thanks again

Jake

You likely already know Jake, but those letters have to be a certain size. IIRC it's at least 2" - so they can be seen from 50'. I may be wrong, but it's stated in their spec.

[Mark Oomkes]

S'pose I ought to make work out of getting my trucks lettered. :headwall

[jakegypsum]

John,

Yes. That is correct from what I gather.

I did know years ago that they had to be a certain size so they could be read from a distance.
I just could never understand why it wasn't a pressed subject back then. We never had any problems with DOT officers in the past reguardless of if we crossed the state line or not. The officers may have mentioned it from time to time but it wasn't a big issue.

Of course there were other bigger trucking companies out there that have had DOT numbers for many years.

Jake

[jakegypsum]

S'pose I ought to make work out of getting my trucks lettered. :headwall

Mark,

Perhaps if you feel that you may get hasseled due to not having any lettering. It's not worth any future fine or BS.

Heck, up until four years ago I never posted the GVW on any of my trucks!

As for the company logo, that was something we always had lettered on the doors as well as other parts of the vehicle.

Jake

[CGSI]

Mark,

Perhaps if you feel that you may get hasseled due to not having any lettering. It's not worth any future fine or BS.

Heck, up until four years ago I never posted the GVW on any of my trucks!

As for the company logo, that was something we always had lettered on the doors as well as other parts of the vehicle.

Jake


Jake
Glad to have been able to help. DOT is flexible on the color and only states that they should contrast with the vehicle and they need to be readable from 50 feet away. 2" is a recommended minimum from them as well.

Glad they did not write you a ticket and just gave you a warning and some time to get it done. Up here that is not happening and they are nailing them hard on the fines.

John

[Mark Oomkes]

I just figure that I do my best to try to follow as many rules and regs as possible. I know it isn't possible to obey every one, because of how many there are. So if I get the #'s on them, keep the trucks clean, make sure my equipment isn't moving around at stops and takeoffs, maybe, just maybe they won't hassle me.

But then I'll probably wake up from my dream too. :rolleyes:

Anybody got a link for the free site?

[cat320]

Well there should be a special section that you can log onto on the web to get the specific info on what trucks need and just in plain english not 5 paragrapghs of BS.

The other thing when you buy a new truck that requires all this dot stuff it should be up to the dealer ,insurance ,or registry to make sure you have the right infor ,size color what ever you need to be legal . Because hey what do I know i'm just a small guy buying one big truck and not an inerstate trucking firm orbig co that would know this stuff from being visted by the DOT.

[Mark Oomkes]

Well there should be a special section that you can log onto on the web to get the specific info on what trucks need and just in plain english not 5 paragrapghs of BS.

The other thing when you buy a new truck that requires all this dot stuff it should be up to the dealer ,insurance ,or registry to make sure you have the right infor ,size color what ever you need to be legal . Because hey what do I know i'm just a small guy buying one big truck and not an inerstate trucking firm orbig co that would know this stuff from being visted by the DOT.

Yeah, and now it's time for you to wake up from your dream, Rick. ;)

Come on, our Sec'y of State's office\personnel can't even tell you which tests to take when you go for a CDL. You have to know before hand. That's what ticks me off, too many rules, regulations, laws, etc that are either not complimentary or conflict with each other. That's why I just try to do my best because it's impossible for any company of any size to truly obey and follow every single law and regulation out there.

[cat320]

I got a better idea every truck off the line over that 10K gvw should have a dot # molded on the side that way it's there with every truck lol no paper work no forgeting to ask or not knowing if it needs to be there lol .

[CGSI]

I just figure that I do my best to try to follow as many rules and regs as possible. I know it isn't possible to obey every one, because of how many there are. So if I get the #'s on them, keep the trucks clean, make sure my equipment isn't moving around at stops and takeoffs, maybe, just maybe they won't hassle me.

But then I'll probably wake up from my dream too. :rolleyes:

Anybody got a link for the free site?

Here you go Mark http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/

[skennedy]

All i have to say is:headwall Great more BS that you have to go through,as if there isn't enough.

[jakegypsum]

All i have to say is:headwall Great more BS that you have to go through,as if there isn't enough.

Agreed!

I'm all for safety and keeping things up to snuff, it's just the amount of BS that you need to go through now days to run a commercial truck.
It's never ending. Every year there seems to always be something else added. End result is added costs.

Also, the amount of literature that you need to page through and the language that you need to understand can really boggle the mind!

Jake

[skennedy]

Well the big catch here is these costs have to be passed onto our clients.I dont run a bunch of trucks like a lot of guys here, but it all adds up and in the end someone has to pay.All of the BS inspections,time to get this done
etc costs money!!
Im also all for safty and see a lot of guys running around with unsecure loads and don't like to see this,but i i were to do it you can bet i would get a ticket.:mad:

[pbeering]

There are a variety of handy support organizations. I use JJ Keller (www.jjkeller.com) who has all the needed compliance stuff, forms, logs, etc.

This is a nationwide deal, and compliance is mostly record keeping.

One very handy investment is their comprehensive book which has both the regulations and the how-to so you don't screw up the records.

[Mark Oomkes]

Here you go Mark http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/

Thanks, I think I did the correct one. It was relatively painless.

As usual, nice easy to follow instructions and links on a gov't website. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Stupid government beauracrats. :headwall

[jakegypsum]

Thanks, I think I did the correct one. It was relatively painless.

As usual, nice easy to follow instructions and links on a gov't website. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Stupid government beauracrats. :headwall

Mark,

That's exactly how I felt after all was said and done. The "correct" application. Lol :D

Jake

[cat320]

The "Who Must Comply" tool has been removed from the FMCSA Web site.
This tool will be replaced by a more comprehensive and user-friendly guide,
which is currently under development.


LOL like that will ever happen

[EIB]

If I want to get a number. Do I go to the local DMV or would it be easyer to get it from FMCSA? Do they consider landscapers, motor carriers?

[pbeering]

The state can issue you a number. Unless you travel across state lines loaded, you need only pull one with the state suffix.

There is an audit during the first 18 months. Took me about 2 hours to complete, but I had all the paper in hand.

[CGSI]

If I want to get a number. Do I go to the local DMV or would it be easyer to get it from FMCSA? Do they consider landscapers, motor carriers?


In NY you will have to send to Albany for it. The local DMV's do not issue it. FMCSA will take the application online and give you your number immediatley.
If you haul for others you are a motor carrier and depending on what you haul you may need DOT/ICC Authority. If all you haul is your own equipment and product you will not need authority.

[PSDF350]

There are only 2 problems as I see it














































lawyers and politicians
The politicians think them up, and then the lawyers write it so no one can understand it.

[Pinnacle]

Just got my #. You guys were right, it was painless and FREE. What bothers me now is that I have to put it on my truck. I currently don't letter my truck and don't want to start. Where have some of you been placing your #s? I was thinking on the side frame rails that are visable from both sides. Occording to their rules, it only has to be clean and visable from 50'. Maybe, i'll uses refelctive numbers on a plate screwed on the rail.

Any thoughts

[John Banks]

The state can issue you a number. Unless you travel across state lines loaded, you need only pull one with the state suffix.




This is defined as Interstate v. Intrastate. Read how each is defined, as Peter has begun to do and see what's best for your situation.

[CGSI]

Just got my #. You guys were right, it was painless and FREE. What bothers me now is that I have to put it on my truck. I currently don't letter my truck and don't want to start. Where have some of you been placing your #s? I was thinking on the side frame rails that are visable from both sides. Occording to their rules, it only has to be clean and visable from 50'. Maybe, i'll uses refelctive numbers on a plate screwed on the rail.

Any thoughts


Part of the law says it has to show company name too so why not just get a set of magnetics if you do not want to be lettered permanently? You can have the numbers on the magnetic signs and only put them on when you are using your truck for commercial duties

[jakegypsum]

The state can issue you a number. Unless you travel across state lines loaded, you need only pull one with the state suffix.

There is an audit during the first 18 months. Took me about 2 hours to complete, but I had all the paper in hand.

Peter,

How involved is the audit? I'm still a little foggy on what exact criteria is needed to be followed? Inspection report? Truck log?

Jake

[Wizard]

This is defined as Interstate v. Intrastate. Read how each is defined, as Peter has begun to do and see what's best for your situation.
Reading the FMCSA website, they defined a CMV as over 10k AND engaged in INTERSTATE commerce, unless you're a for-hire motor carrier (get paid to haul cargo) of any weight Intrastate. So my understanding is that these rules only apply if you're a private carrier crossing state lines (part 390.21). And one section says a CMV is only a truck with a GVW over 26k (part 383.5) I could totally be wrong here, but thats how I'm interpreting it. This is also how it was explained to me in a class on this subject in 2004. If they changed something in July to include vehicles over 10k used only in-state, they haven't updated the regs on the site...

[CGSI]

Peter,

How involved is the audit? I'm still a little foggy on what exact criteria is needed to be followed? Inspection report? Truck log?

Jake


Jake
From the site

The safety audit will be conducted by a State or Federal Auditor and will consist of a review of the carrier's safety management system. The areas of review include, but are not limited to, the following:

Driver Qualifications;
Driver Duty Status;
Vehicle Maintenance;
Accident Register; and
Controlled Substances and Alcohol use and testing requirements

[CGSI]

Reading the FMCSA website, they defined a CMV as over 10k AND engaged in INTERSTATE commerce, unless you're a for-hire motor carrier (get paid to haul cargo) of any weight Intrastate. So my understanding is that these rules only apply if you're a private carrier crossing state lines (part 390.21). And one section says a CMV is only a truck with a GVW over 26k (part 383.5) I could totally be wrong here, but thats how I'm interpreting it. This is also how it was explained to me in a class on this subject in 2004. If they changed something in July to include vehicles over 10k used only in-state, they haven't updated the regs on the site...



Brendan
It goes on to say in the definition of a commercial vehicle is any vehicle that is used to "generate" income.

If you are using your truck which has a registered weight of 10,001 pounds or greater and use it in "a business" it is generating income. If you own a truck registered over 10,001 and use it to pull your RV then it is not deemed a commercial vehicle.

If you use the same truck to haul dirt for use in your driveway you still do not need it but if you haul the dirt for free in your truck for someone elses driveway and then charge to spread it you have just caused your vehicle to become a commercail vehicle because now it has been involved in "generating" revenue.

[Mark Oomkes]

Jake
From the site

The safety audit will be conducted by a State or Federal Auditor and will consist of a review of the carrier's safety management system. The areas of review include, but are not limited to, the following:

Driver Qualifications;
Driver Duty Status;
Vehicle Maintenance;
Accident Register; and
Controlled Substances and Alcohol use and testing requirements

I'm screwed:
Driver Qualifications--Can you fog a mirror?
Driver Duty Status--Work or be fired
Vehicle Maintenance--Does it start without dropping parts, starting a fire (No new Fords yet) or large puddles of hazardous waste?
Accident Register--we don't register accidents, we try and hide 'em as best we can
Controlled Substances and Alcohol use and testing requirements--Gave up on controlling them and yes I use alcohol, and I'm no good at taking tests.

:jk Better hope it's the 18-24 months and not sooner. Didn't read that part. :headwall

[Wizard]

It would seem then that they're saying that every guy with a 1 ton truck with a plow is going to have to put their name, city, state, and DOT number on the truck. That should work real well, good luck on the enforcement effort. How many 1 ton trucks do I see out plowing without such information on the doors in any given storm... I guess the older trucks were OK since they were only 9900 GVWR, but I'd be screwed in my 05 with 11k GVWR. Wonder what the penalties are if you take your chances and get caught...:o

[Pelican]

Wonder what the penalties are if you take your chances and get caught...:o
A lot more than it would cost to have some vinyl numbers made up, you can be sure!!

[CGSI]

It would seem then that they're saying that every guy with a 1 ton truck with a plow is going to have to put their name, city, state, and DOT number on the truck. That should work real well, good luck on the enforcement effort. How many 1 ton trucks do I see out plowing without such information on the doors in any given storm... I guess the older trucks were OK since they were only 9900 GVWR, but I'd be screwed in my 05 with 11k GVWR. Wonder what the penalties are if you take your chances and get caught...:o



A buddy of mine was fined 2500

[Big Dog D]

Another thing people need to be awre of is IFTA stickers. They apply not only to vehicles in excess of 26k GVW but also combinations in excess of 26K. So when you hook your 550 up to a bobcat trailer you are now in excess of 26k and are required to display IFTA stickers.

[RibbleConstruction]

Brendan, If you dont steve is right. The penalty is a lot more then its worth to not do it. I paid about $150 for a set of magnetic signs. I used to use them when I was working. Then when i wanted to take the camper or the boat out I just took the magnets off and had a personal vehicle. A small sign with name and city/state and dot number is an easy fix. Plus when i got my Dot number it only took a few minutes. And it was free for me to get it. All my vehicles either have my company name on them or they have a magnetic sign that would match that truck should I need to use it for commercial work. Even the wifes truck has some magnets just in case.

[Mark Oomkes]

OK, what is an IFTA sticker and what BS does that involve?

I think I'll double up on my happy pills. :o

[Big Dog D]

OK, what is an IFTA sticker and what BS does that involve?

I think I'll double up on my happy pills. :o


Interstate Fuel Tax Agreement.......I think. Do a search online for it. It's run by the Department of revenue.

[atgreene]

Another thing people need to be awre of is IFTA stickers. They apply not only to vehicles in excess of 26k GVW but also combinations in excess of 26K. So when you hook your 550 up to a bobcat trailer you are now in excess of 26k and are required to display IFTA stickers.


Only for interstate travel, not if you only do intrastate (don't leave your state), correct?

I operate within 100 miles of home, so I avoid a lot of hassles.

[John Banks]

Only for interstate travel, not if you only do intrastate (don't leave your state), correct?

I operate within 100 miles of home, so I avoid a lot of hassles.

The International Fuel Tax Agreement (IFTA) is an agreement between all 48 contiguous states, and 10 Canadian provinces. It enables participating jurisdictions to cooperate in the collection and administration of motor fuel taxes. An IFTA account is set up with the base state, which authorizes travel in all IFTA jurisdictions. Then a single quarterly report must be filed with the base state, reporting miles traveled and fuel purchased in each state. The base state is responsible for dispersing the funds to the other jurisdictions. You need an IFTA license if you travel in two or more member jurisdictions, and if your vehicle either weighs more than 26,000 pounds, OR has three or more axles, regardless of weight. From DOTAuthority.com

In some states, such as CT, if you do not have an IFTA sticker, you will need a STATE TAX sticker and subsequent reporting. If you pay your taxes at the pump, it's easy.

Funny how they don't tell you anywhere that if you run taxed road fuel in off-road machines, that you can take the amount of the road tax paid as a deduction on your tax return. :cash

[Mark Oomkes]

The International Fuel Tax Agreement (IFTA) is an agreement between all 48 contiguous states, and 10 Canadian provinces. It enables participating jurisdictions to cooperate in the collection and administration of motor fuel taxes. An IFTA account is set up with the base state, which authorizes travel in all IFTA jurisdictions. Then a single quarterly report must be filed with the base state, reporting miles traveled and fuel purchased in each state. The base state is responsible for dispersing the funds to the other jurisdictions. You need an IFTA license if you travel in two or more member jurisdictions, and if your vehicle either weighs more than 26,000 pounds, OR has three or more axles, regardless of weight. From DOTAuthority.com

In some states, such as CT, if you do not have an IFTA sticker, you will need a STATE TAX sticker and subsequent reporting. If you pay your taxes at the pump, it's easy.

Funny how they don't tell you anywhere that if you run taxed road fuel in off-road machines, that you can take the amount of the road tax paid as a deduction on your tax return. :cash

Shhh, they don't want anybody to know that. We've been doing it for years, it can also be done for gas equipment, i.e. lawn mowers.

[Big Dog D]

They aren't that expensive to get, I think they are like $8+/- it's just a little bit of paper work involved that's a PIA but the secretary takes care of it.

[apgarconstruction]

personally, i can see where you guys are coming from that have larger trucks and pull trailers, which look to anyone as being commercial, but like brendan said, you think all the guys out there with one ton trucks with plows or even doing constuction like me, are going to have these numbers on the sides of their trucks. i never have gotten bothered by a cop or a checkpoint for commercial vehicles. they always nail the guys with trailers hauling skid steers, or larger 450s and up with dumps on them. or just the large dumps and triaxles.
My pickup is lettered and is registered commercially. it's registered for 12,500, but the GVW from the factory is 11,400
I might get these numbers but it just seems like a waste. most pickups don't really stand out as COMMERICAL vehicles to cops or anyone else checking because there are so many NONE commercial pickups out there.

i don't think i've seen one 1ton pickup with these dot #'s on them at all. only larger trucks.

[Pelican]

Don't come to New York without them Dan. DOT grabs anyone and everyone, smaller trucks have really been given a hard time around here lately. They are sticklers too. I met John Q. Public at the local farm store a few weeks ago and DOT ticketed him for moving his pleasure boat with his 3/4 ton pickup. At 9' wide it was 6" overwidth and he didn't have the proper permit.

Perhaps in your locale they aren't enforcing, up here they are with vigilance! It's not a matter of if you'll get caught, but when. Been there, done that.

[Wizard]

Dan, you hit right on the point I was trying to make. Virtually every professional lawn service around here has the required markings on their truck, mainly because they're the ones that get picked on the most, and often times rightfully so. Having been well exposed to the green industry, I've seen some stuff that makes my stomach turn it's so unsafe. I've never been bothered when I wasn't pulling a trailer, and probably never will, simply because I blend in so well with the rest of the "unmarked" one tons on the road. And in the middle of a snowstorm, the cops have enough to do, they aren't enforcing DOT rules on plow trucks, especially if you aren't doing anything unsafe. Now, if you're driving down the road with the plow on and your lights flashing, you're attracting attention, and more likely to get picked on since cops hate other people having lights to begin with. Likewise if you're breaking other laws (speeding, etc) or being unsafe, they could very well throw the book at ya, but very unlikely you'll get picked on just driving down the road minding your own business...

The other problem is, my truck is used for primary employment not related to the snow business, having lettering on the side of the truck would be a very bad idea. And magnets are out of the question, if you saw the doors on my 2000 F350 you'd agree with me.

Another good point here is that until a few years ago, unless it was a dually, a 1 ton only had a GVWR of 9900lbs, so these rules didn't apply anyway. Do you think the DOT guys are on it enough to pick the higher GVWR 1 tons out of a crowd, in hopes he's "engaged" in commercial activities so they could nail you? Dont think so. Regardless, I'm watching this conversation with interest, but wont be running right out to get a DOT number and plastering it all over the sides of my truck. If I pulled a trailer all day or something where I'd be a bigger target, for sure, but not just because I have a plow hangin' off the front of my truck for 15 days out of the year...

[apgarconstruction]

i went to that link to get one. and it seems like most of the questions and choices are all geared towards big rigs or larger trucks, not pickups. i dont' transport any materials owed by someone else etc. i own my tools. i drive to the jobsite and i do the job. the materials are most of the time delivered to the jobsite by the lumber yard.

steve, i was just up in ny state on that snowmobile trip. with my truck, hauling a 102 wide sled trailer and never had an issue, maybe it was luck, myaybe not but my truck just blended in with any other crewcab out there who doesnt' own a business. i had my trac racs slid off too

[CGSI]

i went to that link to get one. and it seems like most of the questions and choices are all geared towards big rigs or larger trucks, not pickups. i dont' transport any materials owed by someone else etc. i own my tools. i drive to the jobsite and i do the job. the materials are most of the time delivered to the jobsite by the lumber yard.

steve, i was just up in ny state on that snowmobile trip. with my truck, hauling a 102 wide sled trailer and never had an issue, maybe it was luck, myaybe not but my truck just blended in with any other crewcab out there who doesnt' own a business. i had my trac racs slid off too


Dan
You were ok hauling your snowmobile trailer because unless you were "trucking" them for others for revenue it is clearly a personal use and DOT numbers are not required.

The guy with the boat on the other hand that Steve mentioned had other issues as well because he needed an over dimensional permit because of his width.

Where you see all the questions about "big rigs" is obscuring your view of the simpler point which is commercial vehicles over 10,001 lbs. Those questions are mostly to help you decide if you need DOT operating authority as well.

If you look up NYS and most states definintion of commercial vehicle requiring DOT numbers you will see that they define commercial as any vehicle that is used in conjunction with producing revenue. The Law for the lower weight of 10,001 just went into effect April 2006 and became enforcable in July 2006.

[Pelican]

I never meant to imply that anyone who comes to NY without numbers will be fined, but consider it this way: Not everyone who speeds gets a ticket for it, but do it often enough and the odds of getting a ticket increase. The same holds true for these DOT numbers. The longer you run without them, the greater the odds of getting ticketed for not having them. Maybe it will never happen, it sounds like DOT enforcement in some areas is not as tough as it is here. I've got them on my trucks, the $20 I had to spend for them is far less than the fine I'd face or the value of the time I'd lose appearing in court.

I remember when I was a kid, all pickups had the weight ratings posted on the sides of the bed, it was a DOT requirement. Even 1/2 tons were required to have them.

[ManForAll]

One potential help with requirement of putting the city/state on the trucks. Here in Michigan at least, you can register your logo with the state and get it "service marked" like a trademark. As long as you do this, there is no requirement to put a city and state on the truck in any size lettering. You just have to keep a copy of the state paperwork in the vehicle in case motor carrier pulls you over, and around here they do ALL the time.

For you Michigan guys, I believe the lettering requirement here is 3 inches high.

[Mark Oomkes]

One potential help with requirement of putting the city/state on the trucks. Here in Michigan at least, you can register your logo with the state and get it "service marked" like a trademark. As long as you do this, there is no requirement to put a city and state on the truck in any size lettering. You just have to keep a copy of the state paperwork in the vehicle in case motor carrier pulls you over, and around here they do ALL the time.

For you Michigan guys, I believe the lettering requirement here is 3 inches high.

You do have to have a phone number for Dept of Ag if doing any pesticide or fert apps, though.

[ManForAll]

I just picked up a copy of the DOT regs from my local Michigan State Police office. I can copy them and e-mail to any Michigan guys who need them.

Of course that's provided I actually come back from Vegas next week. :D

[atgreene]

personally, i can see where you guys are coming from that have larger trucks and pull trailers, which look to anyone as being commercial, but like brendan said, you think all the guys out there with one ton trucks with plows or even doing constuction like me, are going to have these numbers on the sides of their trucks. i never have gotten bothered by a cop or a checkpoint for commercial vehicles. they always nail the guys with trailers hauling skid steers, or larger 450s and up with dumps on them. or just the large dumps and triaxles.
My pickup is lettered and is registered commercially. it's registered for 12,500, but the GVW from the factory is 11,400
I might get these numbers but it just seems like a waste. most pickups don't really stand out as COMMERICAL vehicles to cops or anyone else checking because there are so many NONE commercial pickups out there.

i don't think i've seen one 1ton pickup with these dot #'s on them at all. only larger trucks.

You'll be ok till you hook to a trailer. Your registered gcvw on your registration has to include the truck AND the weight you plan to tow. Ie... My 3/4 ton is registered for 26000 gcvw. I can hook to any trailer and am covered for weight.

I may be overweight, but they have to pull the scales out to prove that, and thats less likely to happen. With dot #'s on the side and the max weight on the registaration, I'm banking on them say "Oh, you're all set, you're registered for the maximum weight and have dot #'s plastered on the side of your truck, move on so we can nail this poor slob in the shiny new F450 behind you without his dot #'s."

I've had them pull me in before and say similar things about weight etc... When they do a paperwok stop, if everything looks ok paperwork wise, they send you on your way. If you have something that sends up a red flag with your paperwork, bend over, the scope is coming out.

[atgreene]

I just got off the phone with Maine dot.

If I don't cross state lines, Maine DOES NOT require dot #'s unless your a hazmat hauler.

My pick-up needs to display dot #'s because I cross state lines and am registered for over 10,000. My dump truck does not need them, as I don't cross state lines, although they said I'm welcome to display them, and I will. Apparently, Maine hasn't done like NY and required them yet.

I don't need fuel stickers for the pick-up, as I'm under 26001 lbs. My dump truck does as it's 33000 lbs. Kind of weird, if you think of it. Why can't this be more uniform?

[EZSnow]

and to further muddy the waters, in MN, the truck doesn't register for GCVW, only GVW. I've got a 15k plate, (just upgraded from a 12k plate- same price, why not?) So as long as the tongue/pin weight of whatever trailer I pull doesn't put me over 15k *on the truck* I've paid enough money for registration. I've seen trucks in other states with BIG registration number on the plates- always made me wonder.

Then there's indiana- my BIL has a 6,000 plate on a crew cab diesel F350. Can't really figure out why, but it seems all the other 1-tons in town are the same way...:huh

[apgarconstruction]

Alan,

when I purchased my truck, I asked the NJ dept of motor vehicles about how much to register this truck for, commercially, because i wanted to pull a trailer some of the time. they told me the trailer I get, will have a separate registration and it's weight listed on that. and that i don't combine the two together on the trucks registration. originally i was going to register my new truck for like 20k. so i could pull about a 10k trailer without a problem. but theywouldn't let me do that in NJ. not sure how the feds are about trailers

i've also heard locally of guys getting nailed for driving NJ DIESEL commercial vehicles into PA and getting fine for not having federal fuel stickers on them.

[CGSI]

Alan,

when I purchased my truck, I asked the NJ dept of motor vehicles about how much to register this truck for, commercially, because i wanted to pull a trailer some of the time. they told me the trailer I get, will have a separate registration and it's weight listed on that. and that i don't combine the two together on the trucks registration. originally i was going to register my new truck for like 20k. so i could pull about a 10k trailer without a problem. but theywouldn't let me do that in NJ. not sure how the feds are about trailers

i've also heard locally of guys getting nailed for driving NJ DIESEL commercial vehicles into PA and getting fine for not having federal fuel stickers on them.



It is fine to drive a Diesel Vehicle with commercial tags accross state lines without an IFTA sticker so long as the vehicle is not being used as a commercial vehicle "income". My Diesel pickup goes into all the Northeast States without a problem. Once it is being used for commercial purposes (signs, DOT Numbers , earning income) It is required to have an IFTA Sticker.

Like many of the guys have said, if you use magnetic signs for a vehicle you share between personal and business you are better off because a business commercial vehicle has different requirements than the same vehicle used as a personal vehicle.

As far as your tags go it usually depends on the same thing. If you have a personal vehicle you register it for its GVW(maximum Gross Vehicle Weight) and the trailer registration covers itself. However in the world of commercial vehicles you typicaly register it for the GCVWR (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating)

Thats the problem with the vehicles over 10K that everyone wanted to run out to buy. The did so blindly without realizing all the effects that the different vehicle class would cause them when they went up in size. This is the exact reason why you can get a F-450 and F-550 even a 650 (and the same for other brands in those classes with a Pickup bed on them.

[BRUNSWICK CONCRETE]

Since most companies are getting legal , cant wait to see the lines at DOT check points this summer. Something has to give .

[apgarconstruction]

i specifically had them ask the NJ dmv about Commercial trailer towing and how to register it, and was still told that i need a separate registration showing the weight of the trailer and it do not get added to the vehicle weight. so i hope that someone wasn't lying down at the dmv. or i'll have to re-register my new truck someday when i start pulling a trailer with it.

[Crash935]

Since most companies are getting legal , cant wait to see the lines at DOT check points this summer. Something has to give .



Your not going to have to wait until summer, those boys were out working like crazy as soon as it warmed up.

The big thing that ive noticed them checking for is,

Off Road Fuel,

pull to the side, they dip your tank and off you go.

[atgreene]

Price is up, guys are trying to get away with it. Personnally, I wish they'd check more, why should I pay the tax while my competition is running around with fuel that's 70 cents per gallon cheaper, always'd PMO.:( :mad:

[CGSI]

Price is up, guys are trying to get away with it. Personnally, I wish they'd check more, why should I pay the tax while my competition is running around with fuel that's 70 cents per gallon cheaper, always'd PMO.:( :mad:

Alan
I agree. I keep 330 gallons of off road and 550 of on road and have been very specific with the guys about using it in the proper vehicles. I told them all that the fine belongs to them as far as payment if they put the dyed fuel in a road vehicle.
We do use dyed fuel in our one deisel that never leaves the lot which it plows because it NEVER is used on the road except the 2 miles to and from the lot to the shop in the spring and fall. I suppose they could bust me for that but the trip is made under the cover of darkness but I suppose the could stop by and check it on the lot if they wanted to since it is registered.

[jakegypsum]

In NJ you don't need an IFTA sticker unless the vehicle is over 26,000lbs and is going over the state line. If this heavier CDL driven truck (over 26,000) crosses the state line it will also need a multi-state registration.

If the specific truck going over the state line is under 26,000, the IFTA sticker is not needed.

Jake

[Big Dog D]

In NJ you don't need an IFTA sticker unless the vehicle is over 26,000lbs and is going over the state line. If this heavier CDL driven truck (over 26,000) crosses the state line it will also need a multi-state registration.

If the specific truck going over the state line is under 26,000, the IFTA sticker is not needed.

Jake


If you put a trailer on a unit under 26k and the combined gross weight is over 26k that combination requires stickers.

[jakegypsum]

If you put a trailer on a unit under 26k and the combined gross weight is over 26k that combination requires stickers.

I agree!


This then brings up another question. If the combined weight of truck and trailer is over 26,000lbs, do you need a multi-state registration of some sort?

Jake

[cold_and_tired]

Browsing and came across this old thread.

I was pulled into a portable scale/truck check yesterday. My weight was 10,460 lbs. I was in my F-350 and had the bed full of landscaping and general construction crap.

My truck is fully lettered and I had all of the paperwork. I was under my registered weight of 12,500 lbs and under the combined capacity of my tires. (they checked them twice) The officer said that I would have been up the creek if I didnt have my DOT #'s.

I asked him if the new 10,001lb regulation covered only a single vehicle or combination vehicle. He said that anytime a vehicle is used in the generation of revenue and weighs 10,001 lbs or more, combination or single vehicle, that the DOT rules apply.

I was also stopped once last winter for being overwidth with my plow and wings. I took the wings off and he let me go with just a few stern words. I guess he didnt have anything better to do.

[CGSI]

I was also stopped once last winter for being overwidth with my plow and wings. I took the wings off and he let me go with just a few stern words. I guess he didnt have anything better to do.

Quite honestly he was doing his job. The law reads that 102" wide is a maximum width. Thats why a 9'2" V is just under 8'6" when pulled back to a V position or fully angled so that it can be transported legally. My F550 with a full front mounted wing and 10 foot main carries an overwidth permit to be legal because even with the wing pulled all the way in and the main blade angled it is 10'6" wide. If you are going to try and get by without one just be warned that they sometimes look the other way but are not required too. If he let you go and you were to go 10 minutes down the road and get in a wreck and got measured he would have some tall explaining to do... and so would you. Plows are not exempt

[cold_and_tired]

Quite honestly he was doing his job. The law reads that 102" wide is a maximum width. Thats why a 9'2" V is just under 8'6" when pulled back to a V position or fully angled so that it can be transported legally. My F550 with a full front mounted wing and 10 foot main carries an overwidth permit to be legal because even with the wing pulled all the way in and the main blade angled it is 10'6" wide. If you are going to try and get by without one just be warned that they sometimes look the other way but are not required too. If he let you go and you were to go 10 minutes down the road and get in a wreck and got measured he would have some tall explaining to do... and so would you. Plows are not exempt

I know he has a job to do, but at 3 in the morning? With 50 other plow trucks running around at the same width that I was?

Either way, the wings come off when I use the interstate. A few minutes of removal/install time is definately not worth any ticket.