Add ATF to diesel motor

[gslam88]

I was reading diesel power mag today and in it was a tidbit of adding ATF to the fuel tank, but only to low pressure motors. Those would be the 7.3 powerstrokes, 02 and earlier cummins , and 6.2 and 6.5 GM's. It supposely adds lubrication to the injection pump.

I was reading this and also thinking about the new low sulfer fuel.. maybe this will be a cheap way for lubrication too??

Has anyone heard of this??

Pete

[Ole JIM]

I was reading diesel power mag today and in it was a tidbit of adding ATF to the fuel tank, but only to low pressure motors. Those would be the 7.3 powerstrokes, 02 and earlier cummins , and 6.2 and 6.5 GM's. It supposely adds lubrication to the injection pump.

I was reading this and also thinking about the new low sulfer fuel.. maybe this will be a cheap way for lubrication too??

Has anyone heard of this??

Pete
PETE Truckers {USED to** add a Qt to 150 Gallons!--especially in the Summer--Worked for ME!--a now Retired Trucker!-Ole JIM-- But--I Dono? as ATF has a Pink tint to IT? & w/ this NEW LAW! on against using Home heating Oil! that Tinted Pink--as Regular Diesel on Highway fuel is straw colored--I think? if the LAW caught You? in a Tank Check! I don*t think?? they would Accept You had added AFT? Dono? for SURE?? --Ole JIM

[Pickering Snow]

I belive it may help in older mech style pumps however the 7.3 PS is not a low presuure system it uses a HOPP to open the injectors.


Jim ---------The Dot has a brand new way of checking your tank and they dont even need to touch your truck IIFFR Guns are now what most Dot officers use they aim the gun at the exhust on the truck and the vapor emitts a signal to the gun --offroad fuel causes a diff vapor trail. I seen them using it last year and asked the guy while i was working on a deadlined OTR truck was there last week and the guy got somebody the gun makes a wierd alarm sound when it dectects off road fuel i could hear the gun from were i was at pretty loud.

[T-Zab]

I thought off road and highway fuel were the same except for the dye ? How the heck could they burn different enough for a sniffer to pick that up ?
Not doubting you Fred, just seems like if you did have addatives in the tank it may throw it off. Our fuel prices are as high as it has ever been. I wonder when the win fall of taxes will start repairing all of our roads and not spent buying new toys for the 5-O.:beatsme
T

[Pickering Snow]

I thought off road and highway fuel were the same except for the dye ? How the heck could they burn different enough for a sniffer to pick that up ?
Not doubting you Fred, just seems like if you did have addatives in the tank it may throw it off. Our fuel prices are as high as it has ever been. I wonder when the win fall of taxes will start repairing all of our roads and not spent buying new toys for the 5-O.:beatsme
T


I asked the same thing Todd the Dot guy said theres something in the dye they started using until i seen it in action i would have doubted it has well . The first time i seen it last year i thought it was a radar gun has he stood on the station exit pointing it i asked him what it was pretty nice guy and he was very good at explaining it.

[gslam88]

Fred,

The way I understood it the 7.3 pressure is less than the new 6.0, is that not correct? The bit was saying common rail and 6.0 PS was not advised as they run around 26,000 psi...

As far as the gun.. I tried to find some info on it.. but have not..

Pete

[wyldman]

For what you will spend on ATF,why not just buy a good diesel fuel additive instead ?

[Ole JIM]

I belive it may help in older mech style pumps however the 7.3 PS is not a low presuure system it uses a HOPP to open the injectors.


Jim ---------The Dot has a brand new way of checking your tank and they dont even need to touch your truck IIFFR Guns are now what most Dot officers use they aim the gun at the exhust on the truck and the vapor emitts a signal to the gun --offroad fuel causes a diff vapor trail. I seen them using it last year and asked the guy while i was working on a deadlined OTR truck was there last week and the guy got somebody the gun makes a wierd alarm sound when it dectects off road fuel i could hear the gun from were i was at pretty loud.
FRED--Here D.O.T. & the State Troopers take a Fuel Sample--& if it has a Pink Tint?--which HOME fuel has-- I personally don*t --THINK??--would they would accept? the "I" jast added a QT of ATF--& the FINE here is a $!00.00 a Gallon of your Fuel Tanks CAPICITY! I have only seen them Check ONE! one ton Dullie--I was just drivng BY! but on my way back Home! I saw it being Towed!--w/ a Trooper right behind iT! Here locally our State Police Head quarters has a Large fenced in Impound area! of their Own! it contains--New & used Troopers Cars! New yet to be Added to their Fleet--Used going to their Auctions! & Drug Siezed vehicles ECT--& its Large enough so Each of the above has its Own Section! I have a Hobby of re-building Heavy Duty Wreckers--& here Wreckers are Registed by Weight! When I finish ONE! I call them & they Come to My Garage & Weigh it for ME!-- FREE!-- a few yrs Ago! I rebuilt a Huge military Prime Mover! a Tank re-treiver! NO wheels-TRACKS!--a Logging CO uses It to Pull Tree lenght multi loaded semis aprox 1/4 mile Up a very Steep Hill--so It had to be Registed! they Came & looked it Over! & called a dozen ? Scale trucks Came! they laid Rows of their Scales under each Track! & I drove It on Them! it Weighed just over 76.000 lbs which I*M glad I didn*t have to Register! FRED I Dono? if? ATF adding would get any one in Trouble-but- ATF does have a Pink tint to It but I have NO Idea? of what? the Pink stuffs Chenical Conttent Is?? DO you Know?--Ole JIM

[Limestone]

I wonder what happens when you burn bio diesel from old cooking oil I imagine that has a different burn pattern to it? Maybe the gun just picks up the chemical in the dye and only registers that? So I would assume the ATF would be fine.

[Ole JIM]

Hi GUYS! seeing today is a workng Day! I called all the OIL Cos listed here in the Phone book! aprox {20?** & asked?--what chemicals? are in that Pink stuff YOU add to Home Heating Oil?--We DONO?--as its Added at the Plant-- OK! Do You have the Plants Phone Nummber?-wait a minute! 5 minute wait!--SORRY WE can*t seem to find IT?--is the person there? that Orders Your Fuel! NOPE! shes gone to Her Dentist--to get Her Teeth cleaned! would YOU have Her call Me when she Returns! YEP!--[[click!]] He never asked for my phone Number?? So I*M not going to Hold My Breath waiting for HER to Call Me back! so I still DONO? Any WAY! its just another--Way of making the Working Stiff PAY more! $$ for a very Un-Necassary LAW! as 1/3 of our Wages are Collected by the ELEITE before We do get PAID! I Dono? but the Older I get! the Stupider the Laws seem to be Getting! as the TRUCKERS Are our Nations Life line! NO matter what Thrucks are Doing? Hauling all the Freight-Building Every thing--or Plowing Snow! if YOU have a Diesel? the ELITES going to find a WAY? to ROB US! IF?? any One! doese find out? what chemicals are in that Added Pink stuff in Home Heating Oil I sure would like to Know what it Is?? Ole JIM

[Limestone]

DIESEL FUEL DYEING
A confusing situation for both refiners and purchasers of diesel fuel has arisen because both the IRS and the EPA require the addition of red dye to certain classes of diesel fuel. However, each agency requires that the dye be added to a different class of fuel, at a different concentration, and for a different reason.
The EPA wants to identify diesel fuel with a high sulfur content in order to ensure that it is not used in on-road vehicles.
The IRS wants to ensure that tax-exempt low sulfur and high sulfur diesel fuel are not used for taxable purposes.


The EPA Requirements Originally, the EPA's low sulfur diesel regulations required the addition of blue dye to noncomplying high sulfur (>0.05% mass) fuels. But after the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) expressed concerns that blue-dyed diesel fuel might be confused with the most common aviation gasoline, which already was being dyed blue, the EPA changed the dye from blue to red.

The EPA regulations require "visible evidence of the presence of red dye" to identify high sulfur fuels intended for off-road use. In practice, this requires refiners to add a level of red dye that is equivalent to no more than 0.75 pounds/1000 bbl (ptb) of a solid Solvent Red 26 dye standard. Solvent Red 26 was chosen as the standard because it is a unique chemical available in pure form. Diesel fuels are actually dyed with liquid concentrates of Solvent Red 164 because this dye is more fuel soluble and less costly than the standard. Solvent Red 164 is a mixture of isomers that are very similar to Solvent Red 26, except the former incorporates hydrocarbon (alkyl) chains to increase its solubility in petroleum products.

Any red dye observed in the fuel of a vehicle in on-road use triggers a measurement of the fuel's sulfur content. Penalties are assessed based on the actual sulfur content of the fuel, rather than simply on the presence of dye.

The IRS Requirements The IRS regulations require that tax-exempt diesel fuels, both high sulfur and low sulfur, have a minimum level of a Solvent Red 164 dye that is spectrally equivalent to 3.9 ptb of Solvent Red 26 dye standard. This level of dye is more than five times the amount required by the EPA regulations. The IRS contends that the high dye level is necessary to allow detection of tax evasion even after five-fold dilution of dyed fuel with undyed fuel.

This is some info I found

[Ole JIM]

DIESEL FUEL DYEING
A confusing situation for both refiners and purchasers of diesel fuel has arisen because both the IRS and the EPA require the addition of red dye to certain classes of diesel fuel. However, each agency requires that the dye be added to a different class of fuel, at a different concentration, and for a different reason.
The EPA wants to identify diesel fuel with a high sulfur content in order to ensure that it is not used in on-road vehicles.
The IRS wants to ensure that tax-exempt low sulfur and high sulfur diesel fuel are not used for taxable purposes.


The EPA Requirements Originally, the EPA's low sulfur diesel regulations required the addition of blue dye to noncomplying high sulfur (>0.05% mass) fuels. But after the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) expressed concerns that blue-dyed diesel fuel might be confused with the most common aviation gasoline, which already was being dyed blue, the EPA changed the dye from blue to red.

The EPA regulations require "visible evidence of the presence of red dye" to identify high sulfur fuels intended for off-road use. In practice, this requires refiners to add a level of red dye that is equivalent to no more than 0.75 pounds/1000 bbl (ptb) of a solid Solvent Red 26 dye standard. Solvent Red 26 was chosen as the standard because it is a unique chemical available in pure form. Diesel fuels are actually dyed with liquid concentrates of Solvent Red 164 because this dye is more fuel soluble and less costly than the standard. Solvent Red 164 is a mixture of isomers that are very similar to Solvent Red 26, except the former incorporates hydrocarbon (alkyl) chains to increase its solubility in petroleum products.

Any red dye observed in the fuel of a vehicle in on-road use triggers a measurement of the fuel's sulfur content. Penalties are assessed based on the actual sulfur content of the fuel, rather than simply on the presence of dye.

The IRS Requirements The IRS regulations require that tax-exempt diesel fuels, both high sulfur and low sulfur, have a minimum level of a Solvent Red 164 dye that is spectrally equivalent to 3.9 ptb of Solvent Red 26 dye standard. This level of dye is more than five times the amount required by the EPA regulations. The IRS contends that the high dye level is necessary to allow detection of tax evasion even after five-fold dilution of dyed fuel with undyed fuel.

This is some info I found
LIMESTONE--first I want too THANK YOU for taking the TIME to Look UP & Sharing this INFO! w/ the Rest of US! but--I DONO?--WHY?--seeing WE are the Leading HiTec nation--that OIl refining is NOT capable? of Producing Both HI & LOW sulfur Fuels in some Manner? that would Eliminate! the Above Problems! as an Ole GUY! I DO get a KIck out of the WAY Poiticians get around Issues! here in MAINE any Diesel vehicle has to purchase a Diesel Fuel Sticker--One Day a while Back I was driving through our Legislaive Parking Lot! & couldn*t Help noticing the Many Diesel powered vehicles Owned & driven by our Local LAW makers!--so I got to Wondering??? as NONE had any Diesel user Stickers?? so I went IN & got a Copy of the Diesel Law Book!--& Chuckled at the LAW! as It Clearly READ!-- any Diesel Vehicle w/ a Fuel Capicity under 31 Gallons--Does NOT need a Diesel Fuel Permit!-- As I was walking back to my Car--I noticed a New GMC Dualy w/ Legislative Plates on IT!--as Here the Citizens Furnish Them to Legislative people--FREE! I Peeked under IT--YEP! Twin Fuel Tanks! & on the front Fenders! MAXI-DIESEL!--so I returned inside!--& asked? Which? Legislative Person? Owned the New GMC Dually w/ the Legislative plates on IT parked in the Special Section just for Legilators?--& with in Minutes! a Middle aged Man appeared--asking If there was anything WRONG? has some One Hit IT?--NO! I was just Admiring It! GEE its a really Beautiful Truck!--Thank You! was His Reply! How long have You had It?--about 6 weeks Now?--OH! well Don*t You think its TIME YOU got Your Diesel Fuel Permit? Well it just Slipped My Mind?--kinda Scarcastic? Reply? as I kinda? Got the Impression?? from HIS above REPLY? that it was NONE of MY {F!@#!!** Business? & I now Noticed that Others in that OFFICE! Were NOW taking NOTICE! of My chatting w/ this LAW Maker!--as I personally HATE to be Talked dwon TOO!--Well SIR! YOU have a PROBLEM! I as a Citizen & TAX Payer! & VOTER! I front of all these Legislative Law Makers!--DEMAND! YOU! to PURCHASE a Diesel Sticker for Your New GMC Dually Pick Up! here & NOW!--& I assume? YOU will have to Borrow some One Elses Vehicle? to GO across town to the obtain One! as If YOU drive away in Your New Dually I*LL call the state Police on my Cell phone just to Make SURE! YOU are ARRESTED & FINED--like every One Else that Breaks that LAW! that YOU Helped place on our LAW Books!--as that LAW Applies to Every Body --Including YOU! YOU have a NICE DAY! as I*LL be Waiting in Your Special Parking LOT w/ my Cell Phone in my HAND!--I Dono? as He stood there RED bas a BEET! & Speachless? as He never Uttered another Word?--& I did Exactally as I said I would!-He came OUT & got into another Vehicle! & drove Off--& I waited!--Thinking?? Retirement is Kinda Nice? as I don*t have to Report any Where! & can Stay Here & make Sure! HE Does BUY a Diesel Permit! & has to come Back & stick It on the Exact Spot on His New GMC Duallys Door! that the LAW State You have to Place IT! HE did Return--& He Did stick the Diesel Fuel Permit on His Door--a Bit Off? but on the Door! & then HE really Surprised ME as HE saw ME sitting there! He walked over & Appoligized! to ME for NOT having obtaining a Permit!--before!--& HE Thanked ME & Shook My Hand!--& there was an Instant Roar of CHEERS! as most? of His Fellow Office Workers Witnessed this happening! & an Older Man approched Me & said --I Wish there wee More Citizens Like YOU!-QUOTE!--w/ BALLS enough--to Stand Nose to Nose w/ all the LAW Makers & NOT back Down! SIR! YOU have Made My DAY!--as its been yrs Since I have Seen a MAN w/ any BALLS! GOD BLESS YA! & He walked Off! I cranked Up my CAR & drove HOME! --Ole JIM

[Limestone]

I found that info by googling it from other things I have read is: for oil companies it is not profitable to have to make, store and transport different fuels. The residual high sulfer diesel in the tanks and lines will actually raise the sulfer content of the low sulfer fuel, also many off road engines are designed now to run on the low sulfer as the law are changing for them. So now the dyes will be just for the IRS to catch people trying to save .24 cents a gallon

[Ole JIM]

I found that info by googling it from other things I have read is: for oil companies it is not profitable to have to make, store and transport different fuels. The residual high sulfer diesel in the tanks and lines will actually raise the sulfer content of the low sulfer fuel, also many off road engines are designed now to run on the low sulfer as the law are changing for them. So now the dyes will be just for the IRS to catch people trying to save .24 cents a gallon
I for ONE! really appricate the INFO YOU have found on this issue--especially--the INFO On its NOT Profitable?? to MAKE!-STORE-& Transpoart High Sulfur FUELS! for OIL COs-as I remember watching TV & Hearing! the CHAIRMAN of EXXON & MOBIL--Retirement Plan--of $400 Million a Year! WE all LIVE in a WORLD that Worships MONEY! & I*D like to Point Out a couple of Facts to Every One!--WE all SEE & HEAR of Big COS Here moving to Foreign Countries! & Cheap Labor is ONE Reason! --but--NOT the MAIN Reason! the MAIN reason IS!! Foreign Countries don*t have to Comply w/ our E.P.A. Standards! & the Bottom Line! is So STUPID! as WE all watch the Weather on TV--& SEE & HEAR what Really Controls all the Weather here on EARTH!-- the Earths Trade Winds!--that Travel WEST to EAST! & completly encircle Our EARTH in just a few DAYS! & We all Realize & Know! CHINA--INDIA--& many other so called third World Countries! where Corperate America has Moved Too! are NOT becomming!--ARE!! the Masive Manufacturing Countries today on EARTH! & Their Exhausting Billions of Tons of Hazzardous Materials into Our AIR!--each & every DAY! & the Earths Trade Winds are Carrying all this Toxic CRAP to US! Via the Trade Winds! so I have to ASK? whats the Point of Having our E.P.A.? Here WE SEE & HEAR Politicians RAVE about all the E.P.A. Crap--all the TIME! & having Worked locally Hauling Toxic Hazzardous Materials & Operating the Mills Dump Site! here a 90 Acre Hole in the Gorund! some 90 feet Deep!--w/ Our E.P.A. over looking the Site--w/ their AIR & Ground Water test Wells--I over the the Nearly 20 yrs! of Observing the E.P.A Activities there!--came to my Personal Comclusion? as just an Average GUY!--attempting to DO the Best JOB I could Possibly Do! which I really Busted MY BUTT--in Complying!--as I closley watched their Testing!--as their AIR testing I had NO Idea? of what that was all About?? -- but -- as ONE lab testing Truck & a Crew of several People were testing samples of the Ground Water? I asked? the Head MAN How the Water Tested? as HE was Holding a pint of the Water He had just Tested! How did It Test Out?--PURE! as New Fallen RAIN! was His REPLY!--so DUMB ME? I asked HIM to DRINK Some!--HE turned a bit Pale! & told ME! I test IT but Don*t have to Drink IT!--Well GUYS that Told ME wat I wanted to Know! all this Testing was just a SCAM--to Pacify the Public!-- as Deep w/in my MIND I Know that Drinking any of that Water would make YOU Sick! & possibly Kill YA! & just So You all Know! the Mill & their Toxic Dump are Now Closed! & the MILL is slowly Becomming a Large Run Down Mill--& I often Wonder?? how Long before Some Realator BUYS! the Rual Mills Dump Site--& Builds Rual Homes There! & Drills Artisian water wells There! for all the New Homes! & the Local People will SEE! a Lot of DEformed Children waiting for the School Bus to Arrive! as Our Society especilly the ELEITE reaches for MORE Profits & having actually Gone too FAR! in their SELL Out of AMERICA! & WE AMERICA! being the Worlds Police Force! w/ only a very FEW Nations in the United Nations Assiting US!--& WERE now in Deep CRAP in Affy Land & IRAQ & our National DEBT--Climbing each & every DAY!--WE are in Big Trouble--& were NOT!! even Military Wise!--as our Military Forces are Spred far too Thin! & W/ KOREA & CHINA rattleing their Swords! & All the ARAB nations assiting our Enimies!--& weather YOU realize? it or NOT? Our Military is in Shambels! & Disary! & W/ RUSSIA standing By KOREA & CHINA More & More! WE AMERICA are LOOSING our Struggle as the Worlds Super Power! & if? some Major Changes are NOT made SOON! in all of the ABOVE! AMERICA will Become Just another Third World Nation--SORRY! but that How I personally SEE IT! --Ole JIM--

[Wizard]

Anyway... informative as always ol'jim...

As I understand ATF... It's used in Tranny's because it doesn't compress under pressure, and like hydraulic fluid transfers power via fluid pressures. Last I checked, ATF was also not combustible either. So putting a non compressible, non combustible fluid into a 20:1 compression motor seems to me like a bad idea :eek:. If it were me, I wouldn't be putting anything other than diesel fuel or specific diesel additive into the gas tank... That could become a very costly mistake with the cost of replacement diesel engines nowadays. I'm with Chris, for what you'd spend on ATF, just put in additive recomended for you motor... Or am I missing something...:huh

[Limestone]

ATF burns if you dont believe me check out the sites for waste oil furnaces most of them take ATF

[Wizard]

You're right, my old man had a waste oil furnace at his shop... But at what temperature... Waste oil furnaces will burn dang near anything because of the heat they generate. Does it burn in a diesel engine... Still think I'd be staying away from this idea... Diesel engines are way to expensive for that kind of risk.

[Limestone]

I would not do it, I just found the info about the dye those babies are way to much money to be messing with

[Limestone]

Amsoil Sythetic has a flash point of 435 degrees

[Ole JIM]

Anyway... informative as always ol'jim...

As I understand ATF... It's used in Tranny's because it doesn't compress under pressure, and like hydraulic fluid transfers power via fluid pressures. Last I checked, ATF was also not combustible either. So putting a non compressible, non combustible fluid into a 20:1 compression motor seems to me like a bad idea :eek:. If it were me, I wouldn't be putting anything other than diesel fuel or specific diesel additive into the gas tank... That could become a very costly mistake with the cost of replacement diesel engines nowadays. I'm with Chris, for what you'd spend on ATF, just put in additive recomended for you motor... Or am I missing something...:huh
YES! I*D say YOU were! as Common Scences Dictates--as DIESEL Fuel is a None Compressionable Also--& in referance to ATF- every Trucker I know Uses IT! as it Cleans the Entire Injection System! & I have Never heard of any ONE having Problem ONE! while Using it!--I used It & ran a 425 CAT over 750,000 miles w/ NO Problems! 1 QT to every 150 gallons & I SOLD a few yrs ago to a Young Feller just UP the Road from ME! & chatted w/ Him a short time Ago! & Hes Now has Passed the Million Mile Mark! & says it Runs stronger & better every Day! & OH He Uses it Also! & I Don*t Beleive?? its NONE Combustable!! as WE have Burned it out Garage Furnace!! & it Burns Pretty Good! for as YOU Say a NONE Combustable? Fluid! I Dono? as I really Hate to PEE on any Ones Parade! but I Gotta Go w/ personal Experance! & 99% of the TIME the So called EXPERTS are WRONG!! & THANK LIMESTONE for all the INFO as HE a Terrific JOB in My Book! THANKS AGAIN Limestone--Ole JIM

[apgarconstruction]

not to skip subjects but ole jim, didn't you get your new computer running? or are you still using webtv??? i thought you were going to get it fixed?

[John DiMartino]

Using ATF has been recommended for yrs by diesel mechanics in my area. FYI,the 6.0 and 7.3 PSD both use a HPOP to fire there injectors,and the pressures are similar.The new 6.4 PSD will be a common rail engine.I used to ru na little 2 stroke oil in my 12V,i just liked how it smelled;) .A lot of guys here just burn there drail oil in there diesels,dump a gallon or 2 in with each fill up until its gone.

[atgreene]

I've used ATF for years. An old time trucker here told me about it to help clean injectors. It does seem to help.

As far a DOT, when they check your fuel, if they find red they send it to a lab for a determination as to what is in the fuel. I have heard of the vapor check, but have yet to see it.

[Ole JIM]

not to skip subjects but ole jim, didn't you get your new computer running? or are you still using webtv??? i thought you were going to get it fixed?
DAN I live on the End of a Power Grid & after trying several PCs--that ALL had Problems I finaly Gave UP! & I don*t Blame the PCs nor the PC man--as He really Tried! & our SON brought Over His Rocket--a Souped Up One! & I used it Once! & it Got All Screwed UP!--Crashed! Locked UP? NO its NOT the PCs Fault! as the Power CO checked our Llne--& they Can*t Figure Out?? as Were getting a Real Bad Surge Here! about every couple of Hours!--WE just Lost a brand New TV-because of the Surge!--WE have Had Light Bulbs Explode Here!--& when theres a Thunder Shower WE Un-Plug Every Thing!--& The Power Co is Working on IT? & YES! I*M On the WEBT--TV thingie! as The Serge don*t seem to Effect It??--I Don*t have a CLUE?? Ole JIM

[apgarconstruction]

Jim, get a surge protector for everything that is electronic that you don't want to get fried with a surge. we lost a DVD player a few months ago during a bad thunderstorm. nothing else was harmed. i went out and bought a battery back up/ plus surge protector for the computer, and a nice surge protector for the TV and all the components for it. it also protects the phone line, and coax for cable tv. i got all of this at circuit city, not sure what you have up there, but go to a good electronics store and make sure they have spots to put a phone line and coax cable in and out. the battery backup makes sure you can shut down your computer safely, if there is a power outage. not really meant to run a long time on the batter. APC is the brand name you need for all of this.
good luck, you should be able to have a PC in that house without it getting fried, no matter where you live. I'd be complaining to the power company if you keep getting hit you with surges for no reason.

[ratlover]

ATF, diesel fuel, water, ect......if its a fluid its not going to compress. ATF will burn, your truck would probably run on pure ATF or so I'm willing to put money on. Its thicker so I wouldnt do it long term though ;)

I agree with Chris......for what you pay in ATF why not run a good additive? Work better and take care of other things too. JMO Or if you just care about a bit more lubrication then run some biodiesel.

[wyldman]

ATF is just regular oil with special friction modifiers and detergents added.A diesel will run on straight motor oil or ATF if is warm enough.ATF will do an OK job of cleaning the fuel system,but not as good as a proper diesel additive.

I usually use ATF to refill fuel filters when changing.

If your stuck miles away from a diesel pump,you can dump ATF in the tank to get you there.

[gslam88]

Chris,

Price wise the ATF is a lot cheaper... $1.68 a qt.. while the Howe’s I guy normally is $7.95 or so.. but I will probably do the atf only every once in a while I think..

I did talk to John D about it at our small GTG and he reitterated what he said above


Dan.. a surge protector is usually good for one good shot and then they are done... a better bet is a ups.. (Uninterrupted power supply... a big battery that keeps power where it should be) or a generator..
It's usually not the spikes (high voltage) that do the most damage, but the sags (low voltage).. that does the most to electronics... worked in a couple different building years ago .. lows of 60 volts.. and highs of 450 volts.. right thru the electrical plugs..old building right by train tracks..

[John DiMartino]

Pete,I paid 50 bucks for a case of Howes.Each bottle (about 2 quarts) treats 750 gallons.At slightly under 10 dollars per 750 gallons treated,and a quart of ATF(now 2.75+ here) only treating 1 tank of fuel(35 gallons),it looks like the Howes is much cheaper,and its designed for cleaning.I can attest that Howes works well,as does Lucas fuel treatment.Both keep the injectors in my Cummins very clean,when i remove them to clean them,there isnt much to clean if Ive been running the Howes or Lucas religiously.

[LarryRB]

In 74, I started with Howes lubricant only because I did freeze up in my tractor trailer at a truck stop east of Des Moines Iowa.. After pulling the rig in and thawing,, the guy got me the Howes. It use to be made in Rhode Island at the time, and had a tow/freeze guarranty right on the label... Howes has no alcohol in the base. To this day, I still get 2 bottles at a time from a nearby TSA. My Kubota gets it, and the Dodge Cummins get the stuff. Even in the summer time., every other fill or so, I add the Howes in... Never had a problem since 74, when introduced to the stuff. Today, I believe Howes is made in Canada, and they use liters vs our qts.. John is right in the bottles are just short of 2 qts each. Off the shelf at the local truck stop, 12.00 per bottle...

[Ole JIM]

Ole JIM here--I just returned HOME from Visiting an Ole Fisher man Freind--as He just Received a Brand New Fishing Boat from VOLVO--powered by TWO huge VOLVO diesel engines--whats called here a DRAGGER--Pulls Huge Nets on the Ocean Floor--Two 1,000 HP VOLVO Diesel MARINE Engines! a NEW Hi Teck Imported Specialty Boat from VOLVO--every things SPEICIAL--the HULL-Cabin--& Engines-- at a Cost of this NEW BOAT? just over 3 million Bucks!--& Guess what?? the VOLVO Diesel Expert--Gave the NEW BOAT Owner a 55 Gallon Drum of SHELL AFT!--& Instructions!! in referance to the Exact Amount of SHELL AFT to be Added to Each Fuel TANK! upon Re-Fueling!--& YES! I asked WHY?-SHELL? & He told ME!--because!! SHELL ATF has 3 % more of the Additive He wanted than other Brands!--& the VOLVO man that Delivered my freinds BOAT was leaving for New York City to Over SEE the installation of Two Huge Volvo Diesels in a World Famous New York TUG BOAT!--& YES! He will Suggest!!-- they USE! SHELL AFT in Theirs! as He says? its the BEST Cleaner & Lube Hes Aware of!-for Their Injection Systems!--so There YOU have IT! from the VOLVO Expert!--Ole JIM--

[apgarconstruction]

3 million must be a nice boat. that's what volvo is recommending, doesn't always mean that it's the best for all diesels. I am going with just Howes or power service. it cleans and treats the fuel, why bother with ATF.

[T-Zab]

Ole JIM here--I just returned HOME from Visiting an Ole Fisher man Freind--as He just Received a Brand New Fishing Boat from VOLVO--powered by TWO huge VOLVO diesel engines--whats called here a DRAGGER--Pulls Huge Nets on the Ocean Floor--Two 1,000 HP VOLVO Diesel MARINE Engines! a NEW Hi Teck Imported Specialty Boat from VOLVO--every things SPEICIAL--the HULL-Cabin--& Engines-- at a Cost of this NEW BOAT? just over 3 million Bucks!--& Guess what?? the VOLVO Diesel Expert--Gave the NEW BOAT Owner a 55 Gallon Drum of SHELL AFT!--& Instructions!! in referance to the Exact Amount of SHELL AFT to be Added to Each Fuel TANK! upon Re-Fueling!--& YES! I asked WHY?-SHELL? & He told ME!--because!! SHELL ATF has 3 % more of the Additive He wanted than other Brands!--& the VOLVO man that Delivered my freinds BOAT was leaving for New York City to Over SEE the installation of Two Huge Volvo Diesels in a World Famous New York TUG BOAT!--& YES! He will Suggest!!-- they USE! SHELL AFT in Theirs! as He says? its the BEST Cleaner & Lube Hes Aware of!-for Their Injection Systems!--so There YOU have IT! from the VOLVO Expert!--Ole JIM--

Okay a stupid question or 2 from me.
What does the atf do for water control in the fuel ? If I was dumping thousands of gallons of diesel into a 3 million dollar boat you can bet your sweet ass Im gonna have something in there for the gallons of water that end up in there. The condensation alone would bother me. I know there are water seperators/filters pre fuel filter but what about in tank control.
Also how does the ATF control algae problems in tank ?
Sorry for being so stupid.
Todd

[T-Zab]

Okay sorry for soundin harsh in the last post Jim sounds kinda far fetched to me.
This is a long read straight from Cummins site. This applies to all there equipment motors. Marine, Mining,Construction,Heavys and Mediums.
I dont have any Volvo sites, I bet they probally have similar guidelines though. This excerpt is from the Cummins manual.

Fuel Additives

Cummins Inc. engines are designed, developed, rated, and built to operate on commercially available diesel fuel as listed in Required Diesel Fuel Specifications; therefore, it is not our policy to recommend fuel additives.

In extreme situations, when available fuels are of poor quality or problems exist which are peculiar to certain operations, additives can be used. However, Cummins Inc. recommends consultation with the fuel supplier or Cummins Service Engineering Department prior to use of fuel additives.

Among the situations where additives can prove useful are the following:

A cetane improver additive can be used with low cetane fuels.
A pour point depressant or flow improver additive can help with high pour point fuels.
A wax crystal modifier can help with fuels with high cold filter plugging points (CFPP).
An anti-icer can help prevent ice formation in wet fuel during cold weather.
An anti-oxidant or storage stability additive can help with fuel system deposits and poor storage stability.
A lubricity enhancer can be used to increase the lubricity of fuels so that they meet the requirements given in Table 1.
A biocide or fungicide can help when fuels are prone to contamination with bacteria or fungus. Although other additives can provide some performance benefits, Fleet-tech™ Microbicide (quart - CC2661 and gallon - CC2662) and Microbicide SP (pint - CC2671, quart - CC2672 and gallon - CC2673) are the only products recommended by Cummins Inc. to treat fuels with biological contamination problems.
Fleetguard's Fleet-tech™ Turbo Diesel All Season Fuel Additive (pint - CC2588) can be used with low cetane fuels to boost cetane values. Although other additives are available that will boost the cetane number, Fleetguard's Fleet-tech™ All Season Fuel Additive is the only diesel fuel additive recommended by Cummins Inc. for cetane number improvement.
Fleetguard's Fleet-tech™ Asphaltene Conditioner (quart - CC2597 and 2.5 gallon CC2596) or Fleetguard's Fleet-tech™ Turbo Diesel All Season Fuel Additive (pint -CC2588) can be used to clean carbon deposits from injectors and improve lubricity in fuels that fall below the recommended lubricity specification in Table 1. Although other additives can provide some performance benefits, Fleet-tech™ Asphaltene Conditioner, and Turbo Diesel All Season Fuel Additive are the only diesel fuel additives recommended by Cummins Inc. for use with fuels that do not meet the lubricity specification in Table 1.
Fleetguard's Fleet-tech™ Winter Conditioner (pint - CC2591, quart - CC2592, 2.5 gallon - CC2595, 5 gallons - CC2593, 55 gallons - CC2594, and bulk - CC2590) and Turbo Diesel All Season Fuel Additive (pint - CC2588) can be used to improve the pour point and cold filter plugging point of diesel fuels in addition to preventing ice formation in wet fuels during cold storage. Although other additives are available that can provide some winter performance benefits, Fleet-tech™ Winter Conditioner and Turbo Diesel All Season Fuel Additive are the only diesel fuel additives recommended by Cummins Inc. for winter performance improvements.
Fleetguard's FS20000 lubricity enhancing fuel filter can also be used to improve the lubricity of fuels that fall below the recommended lubricity specification given in Table 1. The FS20000 is required for Tier 2 QSB engines running Jet A or JP8 Fuels.
Premium diesel fuels can possibly contain several additives that can accomplish the same as buying additives and adding them to lower quality diesel fuel. A premium diesel fuel is defined by the Worldwide Fuel Charter as described on page 1.

Cummins Inc. recommends the use of a premium diesel fuel during winter (ambient conditions at -7°C [20°F] or below) operating conditions.

Great care must be exercised in the choice and use of additives. Some fuel additives can be harmful to the engine. Fuel additives containing ash forming materials will cause combustion chamber deposits. Most legitimate fuel additives perform only one function. Multifunctional fuel additives are mixtures of several additives. All fuel additives perform differently in different fuels; therefore, the additive used must be one to which the fuel will respond. There are no known additives that increase the power or improve the efficiency of a properly maintained engine.

NOTE: Cummins Inc. accepts no liability for engine damage resulting from the use of fuel additives which are not specifically recommended.

Here is the link to Cummins site. It is really awesome if you own anything with a Cummins Motor. You can track your motors build date and all specs and part numbers.
Todd

[T-Zab]

Oops forgot link. https://quickserve.cummins.com/info/qsol/products/index.html
Todd

[Ole JIM]

Fisrt of ALL--Ole JIM here w/ my WEB TV thingie! HEY Guys! I have NO Problems w/ other Opinions as I*M just Repeating what I See & Hear!--TODD--No appoligy necessary!--as Comon Scence dictates that NO Diesel Engine CO is going out of the BOX!--to Inform Diesel Owners of Using an Inexpensive Additive!--AFT or any thing ELSE!--I*M just an Average GUY that USED AFT 1 Qt to 150 Gallons-at Fill Up Time! & it Sure Worked for ME! I Don*t CARE! what You or Any One ELSE Uses?? as thats Your CHOICE!--I have Used ATF in My CUMMINS & CAT Diesel engines for many Years!--as I have never Owned a VOLVO-- My Fisherman Friend w/ His New 3 million dollar Fishing Boat--Had a Fleet of 10--Now Hes Down Sizing--This New ONE is the TOP of the Line JOB--Aluminum< spelling?? w/ Stainless Steel Outer covering--that never needs Maintanance?--as Hes attempting to Compete w/ all the Foreign Boats out There!--I have Gone on a couple of Fishing trips on His Ole ONE!-& BOY You talk about Guys Working Hard!--Well them Guys DO!--I Pray He Does OK? as Hes been Born & Raised on a Boat--w/ Now His 7 Sons! all Very Rugged indiviguals--a GO for BROKE! Effort! a GAMBEL at Best!--Hes all most My AGE!--as Hes Trying to Save a Family Tridtion!--as most local Boats lay Idel in Port--most of the TIME!--as chatting w/ HIM--the Experts SAY this New BOAT will DO the Work of 4 of His Others?--in 1/3 the TIME!--& Hes a LEADER! as the Entire Sea*Coast is Watching the RESULTS??--of this ONE Family They Invited ME to GO along on what they Called SEA Trials--but--DUE to my Wifes Illness I had to say NO!--But MY Heart & Mind will be w/ Them!--as IF they Can*t DO IT?-- NO One CAN!--8 Men w/ over 100 yrs of Sea Experance!--as I remember? as I watched them WORK!-- POTERY in Action--like Watching a Great Dance Team of DANCERS in 100 % tune w/ one Other!--never a Missed Step!--Beautiful!! & their Practicing Hard on the New Boat--LOOK GUYS I DONO? any thing about Fuel Additives! all I know! is What Worked for ME!--GO BUY whatever? but AFT worked for ME!--Enough SAID--Ole JIM--