Building a pull-plow

[brunosplace]

Has anyone here built there own pull plow? If so, could you post some pics?
Or if you have modified mass produced units. I'm designing one and just trying to make sure I didn't repeat mistakes others before me have made and redone!! LOL

[Earthscapes]

One of these ?? If so I just pulled my other one off today so I can some great pics from all angles. Let me know what you need.
http://www.earthscapes.cc/95_rear.JPG

[brunosplace]

Yes sir, thats what I'm up to!! Using an old plow blade, need to make the mount set-up.

[Earthscapes]

I'll take pics tomorrow. These are slide in hitch mounts.

[brunosplace]

Thanks, that is exactly what I need. The only attachment to the truck will be the reciever hitch on what I have in mind.

[wyldman]

Check out these thread for some backplow installs I have done,it might help.

Arctic backplow install (http://www.letstalksnow.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7455&highlight=arctic)

Daniels pull plow install (http://www.letstalksnow.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11159&highlight=daniels)

[Firstclasslawn]

Be very carefull Hooking it ONLY to the Hitch. A good friend of mine ripped a hitch right out of the frame of his truck doing that. Not only did it screw up the hitch and the frame, it also messed up the electical wireing. WIth a jeep though, your plow shoudl be significantly smaller than his and so you may not have a problem! Heres how the one on my truck is hooked up...UGLY, but funtional!

[Firstclasslawn]

Sorry about the pics, they were taken in the dark, RIGHT after salting!

[Alan]

This thread (http://www.letstalksnow.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2651&highlight=Snowman) shows a bunch of the rebuild I did on my Snowman plow.

[BWhite]

Dont forget to design in a trip edge !

[Earthscapes]

Ok here are some pics. I uploaded them to my site, to save space here.

http://www.earthscapes.cc/stuff/back_plate.JPG
http://www.earthscapes.cc/stuff/back_1.JPG
http://www.earthscapes.cc/stuff/back_2.JPG

Tab on round tube 01-06 Chevy hitch. Hitch is on my 06, but off my 01' makes life easier then building new tabs. Will be going on the 02' soon.
http://www.earthscapes.cc/stuff/06_back_mount.JPG

Make sure your hitch is very secure. I have had the backplow on my 90' for the last 7 yrs and never ripped it off. I have seen hitches and frames rip right out of trucks before so it can happen and I have done it with a Ford once.

[Earthscapes]

Mounted on the 95'
http://www.earthscapes.cc/stuff/95_back.JPG
http://www.earthscapes.cc/stuff/95_back_1.JPG

[Firstclasslawn]

Just for your info, you DO NOT need to put a trip edge in. I have never had a trip edge on a pull plow and never had a problem. Most pull plows here are just like mine...with no trip edge!

[Snowboy]

Those of you with the snowman pull plows.

Does your plow solely hook up to the trailer hitch and not tie into the bumper or anything?
Does it not wobble being it’s just attached to the 2" receiver?

Dave.

[Alan]

Does it not wobble being it’s just attached to the 2" receiver?

Yeah, they wobble, is that a problem?

[BWhite]

Those of you with the snowman pull plows.

Does your plow solely hook up to the trailer hitch and not tie into the bumper or anything?
Does it not wobble being it’s just attached to the 2" receiver?

Dave.
2" connection works just fine :rockon

[Snowboy]

Yeah, they wobble, is that a problem?

Allot or a little?

I was thinking it could do some damage if was rocking back and forth all the time.

Why is it that my Daniels pull plow has the 2 arms that are supposed to slide onto the side of the trailer hitch and same goes for the Artic if I’m not mistaken.

http://www.letstalksnow.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7382&stc=1&d=1109352791

[BWhite]

The wobble never effects the operation of the plow

[Snowboy]

Oh ok it's my 1st season with one this year and I know mine wobble's a little as well. I just assumed that the ones that have no side support must rock like crazzy.

[wyldman]

Dave - The Daniels must use the two link arms,as they are what the plow pivots on when it lifts.The lift arm is hinged on both ends,so if you had no link arms,it would just flop towards the truck when you go to lift it.They also help stabilize it from rocking side to side.I made your link arm mounting ears out of thinner material,so if you catch something,they will break,and prevent major damage to the truck.

The Arctic could get by without the stabilizing link arms,but it would move around some back there.It uses a parallelogram style lift,which is independant of the stabilizing arms.

You need some side to side play anyways,so the plow can follow the contours of the ground,as it's not always level.Take a close look in the mirror next time your drive out the end of a driveway (with the backplow down),and make a hard turn.You will see just how much that plow has to twist to stay on the ground.

[brunosplace]

Thanks Guys, keep them coming!! I am making this from an old Meyer blade and for now going to use an e-46 to lift it. I will be cutting the blade down to height. how tall are your pull plows?

[Earthscapes]

Your using a e-47 to lift it ?? What are you using for down pressure ??

Mine are 18" tall.

[Mark Oomkes]

Dont forget to design in a trip edge !

Think Urethane. Like FirstClass stated, never had a trip edge back plow, probably never will. They do all have rubber or urethane edges and have for almost 20 years.

Wobble is actually a good thing in a front or back plow. This gives them the ability to follow contours as well as move around when soemthing is hit. If everything is rigid, something permanent--like the plow or truck frame--has to give. You wouldn't believe how much our back plows move around, but just in the arms, not the frame or mount. I bet I can move one side 4-6" up and down.

[BWhite]

The reason for the stories of backplows tearing off hitches is due to the lack of tripping . Mine has tripped on several occasions and I am glad it did

[Mark Oomkes]

Just out of curiosity, have any of you guys that have back plows that are inserted into the receiver tube checked with either the 'pull' plow manufacturer or the receiver tube manufacturer on what hooking a plow up to a trailer hitch does for their and your liability?

[BWhite]

dont exceed tongue weight or tow rating

[Earthscapes]

No Mark I haven't, but if it falls off it's no different than the front plow getting ripped off as I have done in the past.
I took up 2 lanes one night bringing back my old western when the center bolt broke. Nice thing is when the rear plow breaks, just throw it in the back of the truck and keep plowing.

[Mark Oomkes]

What happens if during the summer, months after you're finished plowing, you're going down the road, hit a bump, and your hitch breaks, the trailer hits a car? Hopefully no one is injured and the safety chains hold. If not and the insurance company\lawyers starts looking into it find out that you modified the use of your trailer hitch by mounting a back plow to it, causing stresses on it that it was not designed for?

Where does the liability end up? :beatsme

[Earthscapes]

Well that could happen anytime I hook a trailer up and I have lost 2 to this day. That is the reason I have insurance, just in case god forbid, something bad happens. I see all sorts of brackets welded on hitches, for campers and whatever else people do, so I couldn't see blaming a back plow directly.

Like I said the hitch on my 06' is off my 01'. I have used it on 4 trucks for 5 years with the backplow attached and pulling big trailers with no cracks or malfuctions. Now the hitch will be going on my 02' as I am retiring my 06' to a backup truck.

[Firstclasslawn]

I have to be worried like mark. i have an advertising teacher that is a lawyer and after listing to him talk, i have learned that they will find ANY reason to win a lawsuit. And yes, I think that a modified hitch failing would be a good reason to sue! Personally, I would rather have an ugly bumper that i KNOW will be strong enought to hold. Plus i am able to put as much downpressure as i want without it tripping.

Also, i dont know how much downpressure the daniels plows have, but most hitches are only good for less than 1000lbs of tounge weight. Well, I can pick the back tires of my truck right off the ground with my plow....and the back half of my truck weights a lot more than 1000lbs!

[PSDFordMan]

Well, I can pick the back tires of my truck right off the ground with my plow....and the back half of my truck weights a lot more than 1000lbs!

I've used the hitch to pick up the back of my truck several times. That 1000lb rating is designed to withstand the static force created by the weight while going over bumps and such.

[brunosplace]

Using the e 47 for now to see how it work before I spend the money on anther hydraulic system. To provide pressure I intend on using springs (trip springs?) to pull down. as for a trip edge I was considering tleaving the meyer trip action intact for the most part. Shorten the moldboard and use the short two-meter springs. Tongue weight rating for the hitch is 500 lbs.

[Firstclasslawn]

My backblade itself weighs more than 500lbs! I have seen it work guys, but BE CAREFUL using the hitch!

[brunosplace]

Keep in mind, this is only 6.5 ft wide. I am figuring it to be about 350 lbs

[Alan]

To provide pressure I intend on using springs (trip springs?) to pull down.

My Snowman 75LDA used springs for downpressure. NOT a great setup! The springs work against the hydraulics, making for slow lift and a lot of current draw. At full lift the springs are maxed out and when the plow is on the ground, where you need the downpressure they add very little. That was one of the reasons I converted to hydraulic downpressure. The Snowman has a full trip design but it rarely trips. Because of the geometry on the pull between hitch point and cutting edge the plow is pulled upwards when the load increase. That usually makes it climb over anything it snags on. That's also the only plow I have a steel edge on, if I had urethane on it I think it could get by quite well with no trip function at all.

[wyldman]

Use the E-47.Use the angle hydraulics for your up and down control of a double acting cylinder.This will give you lift and down pressure,it just has to be wired correctly.

Use the crossover relief adjustment to control max downpressure,so it will relieve easier when it needs to,liek coming out a driveway apron.

Springs suck,for the reasons Alan described.

you attack angle should be almost vertical for it to scrape well.With a slightly past vertical attack angle,you can skip the trip mechanism all together,as the relief valve will allow it to ride up over any obstacles.A u-edge would also be recommended.

[brunosplace]

Thanks wyldman, that was a thought that entered my mind after reading alans post. Where is the best place to pick up a double acting cylinder?

[wyldman]

Design,and build your prototype,then measure what you need for cylinder stroke so you can order the right one.

Any good hydraulics shop should have a good selection of cylinders.

[Pickering Snow]

What happens if during the summer, months after you're finished plowing, you're going down the road, hit a bump, and your hitch breaks, the trailer hits a car? Hopefully no one is injured and the safety chains hold. If not and the insurance company\lawyers starts looking into it find out that you modified the use of your trailer hitch by mounting a back plow to it, causing stresses on it that it was not designed for?

Where does the liability end up? :beatsme


Mark

The images i seen this summer while coming back from St Ignace car show are still very graphic in my mind the hitch pulled off the truck towing a travel trailer flipping the truck and crushing the people inside i will never forget that sunday has the one person was taking there last breaths of life and i stood there helpless , the two cars that hit the trailer were hurt badly . Good reminder for all of us to think about.

[Snowboy]

Mark

The images i seen this summer while coming back from St Ignace car show are still very graphic in my mind the hitch pulled off the truck towing a travel trailer flipping the truck and crushing the people inside i will never forget that sunday has the one person was taking there last breaths of life and i stood there helpless , the two cars that hit the trailer were hurt badly . Good reminder for all of us to think about.


So Fred are you saying its a bad idea for us to run pull plows?

Dave.

[Mark Oomkes]

So Fred are you saying its a bad idea for us to run pull plows?

Dave.

I, personally am not saying that. We have them on 5 of our trucks. But, not a single one hooks up to the hitch.

That is all I am saying, be aware of what you are doing and what liability you may be incurring upon yourself. Especially when there are other options available.

[Snowboy]

I, personally am not saying that. We have them on 5 of our trucks. But, not a single one hooks up to the hitch.

That is all I am saying, be aware of what you are doing and what liability you may be incurring upon yourself. Especially when there are other options available.

Other option?

Downpresure front blade like a snowway or moded blizzard?

How do you have yours hooked up? Make and width as well if u could?

Dave.

[BWhite]

:weirdthre Liability I think you would have MORE trouble with fabricating up a backplow or attaching (welding) it to a truck by anyone but a Mechanical Engineer for design and a certified welder for welding . I will take my chances with a corp that built and tested the rig rather than a home designed and home fabbed any day of the week . Remember owning a welder does not make one a certified welder . If your welds are not certified they wont stand up in court either .

[Mark Oomkes]

Good thing my welder is certified. He's also been building back plows for over 20 years. Been welding for longer than I've been alive.

I think I'm sitting pretty good with actual real life experience vs. engineers. He also has product liability insurance. And like I've said, we have had zero down time from his plows\workmanship other than cylinder issues early on.

[brunosplace]

Use the E-47.Use the angle hydraulics for your up and down control of a double acting cylinder.This will give you lift and down pressure,it just has to be wired correctly.

For the down pressure action of it I think I should use the right angle circuit of the pump. That way I can interrupt the white solenoid wire on that side to create a float position preventing the motor from running and then energizing the green c- coil wire letting gravity take over. Left side to raise it as the only live wire is the white to the solenoid running the motor.

So I need two switches. One is just an on/off to open or close the white lead to the solenoid. the other is a momentary two way switch for the up/down.

Correct? Let me know if I am wrong on this.

Thanks
Dwayne

[snowjoker]

Is it ok if i build a hitch mount pull plow although i have had no formal welder training? and am not certified? Not to bust your guys balls but im gonna guarantee most welding shops that do repairs on this type of eqipment have no valid certifications. Can you tell me what certification is needed as well?? You do know there are ALOT of different certs for welders, and some need to be re certified every 6 months..........

[T-Zab]

Is it ok if i build a hitch mount pull plow although i have had no formal welder training? and am not certified? Not to bust your guys balls but im gonna guarantee most welding shops that do repairs on this type of eqipment have no valid certifications. Can you tell me what certification is needed as well?? You do know there are ALOT of different certs for welders, and some need to be re certified every 6 months..........

I thought the same thing Walt. I know a couple really good fab shops and not even the owners are cert.
I know of 2 guys who are cert., and both are basically pipe fitters working for major Pharmaceutical companys.
Todd

[BWhite]

There are a lot of great welders out there , some who may have learned their skill with no formal training . I am using it as an example of the same paranoia about hitch connections .
It would be best to forward all evidence to Snowman Snowplows in Bloomington Ill. . Snowman can then see the errors in their ways and cease production and buy back all hitch connection product in the field :rolleyes:

[Mark Oomkes]

Bill, all I am trying to point out is that I personally will never use a hitch mounted back plow because of the potential liability involved. I am not satisfied with what the manufacturer says, because everyone will be named in a lawsuit that resulted from a trailer coming loose.

I am trying to make everyone aware that there is that potential liability, so if you decide to use one, you know what you are getting yourself into.

I am also going on my experience with back plows. It is a recent phenomona (sp?) across the country while we in Grand Rapids have been manufacturing and using back plows since the early 60's. So we (and I although I've only been plowing for 20 years) have some experience in design, manufacture and longevity of designs that are out there.

Snowboy, the back plow we are using is built by a local fab shop. He removes the OEM hitch, other than Dodges because they won't allow it anymore--it's part of the frame, installs his own custom hitch with plow hookup points built into the hitch and bolts it directly to the frame. They can be installed in just about any width, with or without wings--up to 16'--wings can be controlled as one or individually, run off central hydrualics or its own electric pump. The electric pump is powered by large gauge wire with Anderson type connectors. Downpressure is always there with back plows he makes, he usually adjusts it to the individual truck so you don't quite lift your tires off the ground. Rubber, steel or urethane edge. I prefere urethane.

The name of the company is Ebling and Sons Blacksmiths. If you look in the thread of pics of your fleet or trucks, you will see some of the back plows we have. This pic isn't the best of the mounts, but it will give you an idea of the custom bumper. He will either install a custom bumper or leave the OEM bumper, it's up to you.

PS This one is a little different, it has 2 lift cylinders because our intention is to install a v-box on this truck. The 'normal' back plows have just one in the middle with the 4 arms on the outside, which makes it lift straight up vs. an arc.

[brunosplace]

For the down pressure action of it I think I should use the right angle circuit of the pump. That way I can interrupt the white solenoid wire on that side to create a float position preventing the motor from running and then energizing the green c- coil wire letting gravity take over. Left side to raise it as the only live wire is the white to the solenoid running the motor.

So I need two switches. One is just an on/off to open or close the white lead to the solenoid. the other is a momentary two way switch for the up/down.

Correct? Let me know if I am wrong on this.

Thanks
Dwayne
:feedback anybody know if I am right on this? :beatsme

[Snowboy]

Mark,

Thanks for the picture. I'll have a look. That is a nice looking unit is that a current picture of it or when it was new? If that’s old you take good care of your stuff.

If you had a dump box in your truck like a downeastner with the Salter attachment could you still have a back plow on your truck? You would have to make the back plow come up real high to clear the back blade if its even possible? A V box on your flat bed would come down allot lower then a truck with a dump box and Salter.

Dave.

[Mark Oomkes]

That was when it was only a couple months old. That one still doesn't look too bad, some of the others are getting pretty sorry looking. But now I can have them painted white to match the :blizzard on the front.

I've been wondering that myself about the insert. I keep seeing the pics of Ron's trucks and dreaming of how I could make it work on one of our pickups. Picking it up high enough wouldn't be too much of an issue, other than the lights would no longer be visible, but then we could do something like that flat bed has. The other issue is the side discharge instead of the center chute\spinner assembly. Like Jerre says, with plasma, anything is possible, just not sure if it would be worth the money.

[Snowboy]

Mark,

If you make the back blade come up that high, will it still scrape properly and I'm guessing the blade will have to be mounted onto the back bumper. Is side discharge better then center? Like you said it's probably not worth the money to make the salt come out the side and find a way so no salt gets on the plow.

I saw Ron's setup today on a truck in the parking lot at work. Funny it was a F250 just like Rons. I think the Salter has 2 separate augers 1 left 1 right. I cant see how it would work, if it had 1 long auger all the way across the back end all it would do is transfer salt from one side of the bed to the other. But I've been known to be wrong before. I didn’t want to get all up close and personal in case the owner saw me looking at his rig thinking I’m trying to steal it.

I wonder if the salter balances out when you raise the bed like the under tailgate salters like Fisher and other manufacturer's.

Dave.

[Mark Oomkes]

The only problem I could see is the arms would have to be quite long, but scraping shouldn't be a problem. Just strength because it would be out so far.

As for discharge, I think there is a place for both. We have had issues with the distribution pattern on our v-box since day 1, but I think we are getting it worked out. On the other hand, our under the tailgate which is similar to the insert, will spread a country mile with great distribution. Going through a narrow area isn't that great, but wide open lots it is unbeatable.

Not sure, but on the ones I have seen with 2 spinners, the auger is angled in different directions, so it moves the material to each spinner. I'm not sure I would really want that.