Tractor question

[Prosno]

I'm thinking of upgrading tractors, moving from my ford 2120 to a cat challenger, any opinions on this machine????

[adino1954@aol.com]

dont for get to look at those green tractors:there is a dealer close by

[Prosno]

The crappy new JDs???? nope dont like them cant find one that compares to the 2120. Now come on you know that. Actually I'm looking at Montana to, gotta compare

[Mick]

If you're considering other brands than Cat, look at Mahindra. I'd been looking for several years, including JD, Kabota, NH and Case. Saw the Mahindra 4110 and bought it the second time I looked at it. Awesome machine for the price. This one doesn't have a lot of the comforts - like hydrostatic transmission or cup holder. But the money was put into the guts.

[wyldman]

Doesn't Matt Bowman (from this site) run one ? Maybe try a search Bill.

[Pelican]

I can't reveal my source, but I have on good information from someone very close to Caterpillar that Challenger tractors are less than desirable. At least the compact models. He recommends J/D or New Holland.

[Matthew Bowman]

Bill
What size machine is your 2120 & what size machine are you looking for? What do you use it for?

Matt

[Prosno]

Mat my 2120 is about 38 hp 35 pto hp, heavy solid machine. I run a landpride power rake, backhoe, and do alot of loader work in summer. Heavy landscaping. Winter it has a snowblower on the back. look at this link and you can see pics of it. http://www.letstalksnow.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1452&highlight=snowplow+garage I'd like something a little bigger and heavy, seems they're making them light lately. Kubota and Jd did nothing for me. actually Montana is looking good

[adino1954@aol.com]

Bill that ford 2120 is still worth good money for its age .......how will that montana or mahindra so called tractor hold its value in 10 to 15 years???????????
look at resale and quality,not PRICE
you cant go wrong with blue,green,orange

[Matthew Bowman]

Bill
For starters I must strongly agree with adino1954 about going with any of the off brands - you'll be sorry, and you do get what you pay for. You would be much better off keeping what you have. When you sell your 2120 I'll bet that you get close to what you paid for it when it was new.

I don't think it's a matter of the machines getting smaller and lighter, I think that they (all the manufactures) are getting more HP out of smaller engines/machines. Therefore a new 35HP machine looks small compared to yours. You need to think of it the other way around. You now get 45HP out of a machine that is the same size of your 2120.

As far as the different brands go, that could start a heated debate. I'm not up to date on the Fords (now New Holland). I'm not sure why you don't like the JD's - did you look at the 4000 series? They are really geared more for the home owner. You should look at the smaller end of the 5000 series. They are alot more machine for your $. All the compacts have jap motors, if you jump up to the 5000's, they have JD engines which are very durable over the long haul. They are also a much larger/heaver machine which is what you are looking for.

I have a challenger and have been very happy with it, no problems. That being said, it lives a very easy life as it is used only for pushing snow. I still like the same sized Deeres better. They have a better transmission, and have proven themselves (at least to me) to hold up better compared to the rest.(better resale $ also) But, for only pushing snow, I couldn't justify the extra 30k to go green. (I do like my Challenger better than the other non-green choices though.)

As far as the little Challenger's, I'm not sure. I don't know if the jap engines are any good or not. You have to step up to 55 or 60HP before you get the Perkins diesel. (they like to call it CAT power, but it's perkins-which is now owned by CAT.) I was looking at compacts this past fall, and while I don't know if they are good or not, I saw no advantage that made me want the little challenger. There was not enough of a price difference between the challenger's and deeres. Same price - I'm going green.

Matt

[Mick]

I always agree with going with quality over price - but I also don't believe in "buying" a brand name. Before you dismiss the Mahindra, you might want to learn a little about it and compare the quality against the others. The Mahindra made the Willy's Jeep back in the 40s and was with International Harvestor in the 60s. I believe as far as name recognition, Mahindra is where Kabota was ten years ago.

I generally don't run off half-cocked. I research things before I act - especially a purchase like this, which to me was a major investment. Like I said, I'd been looking for a tractor to buy for several years.

http://www.mahindrausa.com/About/history.aspx

I also spent some time on the tractor related discussion group site getting recommendations and reviews:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/

[Alan]

For what it's worth, I'm about 99% sure that the Challenger compacts are mady by Agco and painted in Cat colors. Agco is a conglomerate that bought up several of the old names in ag equipment and makes one line in a variety of colors. I looked the Challenger loaders over pretty closely and they are pretty sloppy made. Bolts in all the pivot ponts instead of pins, with threads in the bearing area on one end. Once the threads get beat down the pivots all get loose. I would not buy a compact from Cat.

[Pelican]

Your information is correct Alan. Bill, look into parts availability before you purchase. This is one area Cat shines, but I don't know if it applies to the Challenger series or not as well. They guarantee overnight delivery of parts to your nearest dealer.

Kubota has a problem with parts availability, I've learned the hard way. Each time my mower has gone down, I've had to wait 4 to 5 days before the parts are available before repairs can be attempted. Parts networks are very important for a machine that is counted on for income.

[S Kennedy]

Maybe look at Case......They make some nice smaller tractors.

[GMC Driver]

Case = New Holland as NH bought Case a few years ago. The DX chassis is the same as NH's Boomer line. They have recently resurrected the Farmall name - doesn't change the tractor at all.

I would also chalk up a vote for off brands - Manitou, Montana, Kioti - where will they all be in x years? Will they end up like the David Brown, Minn. Moline, or Cockshutt of years gone by? These were all respectable brands in their day, but somehow suffered.

While you're experience with Kubota has been less than impressive, I will say that the ownership of a Grand L 3430 has been excellent to date.

[Matthew Bowman]

While CAT dealers carry the challenger line and parts, they are not as good as you would think for getting parts. At least with the challengers. I think that is because they must come from AGCO as Pelican said. In fact, not only are the compacts made by AGCO, but the entire Challenger line is now made by AGCO corp. I have not needed any repairs, but I did have to get a few items, and I waited a couple days for them to come from AGCO.

Not sure about everyone else's experience, but I've had extremely bad luck getting parts for FORD tractors over the years. We have waited weeks to get what we need to make repairs on a machine that is only 10 years old. John Deere has an extremely good parts network. I have always been able to get what I need the next day, every time. Even on old outdated equipment that I'm not even sure if they will have parts for, they have it the next day.

I'm not sure about the compacts, but Challenger doese not make loaders for the larger tractors. Thier loaders are made by Quicke and painted/badged challenger. My loader is very stout, and I'm pleased with it. Rember also that Ag. loaders are not as rugged as industrial loaders such as on a backhoe or wheel loader.