Fisher V box electric motor conversion

[John DiMartino]

With all the talk about converting the gas engine V boxes to electric,I figured it was time to post the pictures I have of a friends spreader setup. I do not have the small details of this conversion,but I can ask him if someone needs detailed info. Honestly the pictures are all you really need. He converted 4 or 5 of his gas spreaders over,and he said he will never use gas motors again.All if his use the same motor so he can keep one spare,and be set no matter which one goes down. The motor itself is a dayton 6ML02,and it is 1/2 hp,and draws 39 amps, they do make a 3/4 Hp unit 6ML04, and 6ML06 for the 1HP units, but you'd need to run serious cables since its full load amps are 60 amps to 80 amps draw. Heres the pics I have,I think it looks factory and he did a great job,on the conversion, i dont think he keeps it all that clean or corrosion free in there though.

[John DiMartino]

Here is the last one I have. It isnt clear,but i was able to get the motor numbers off of it. Hes been using these for a few yrs now,and has had no problems,and let me tell you ,he works his equipment, he heaps that spreader way up,and it spreads it out no problem,

[atgreene]

Thanks John. Appreciate the info.

[urethane dino]

John
Is the electric clutch still operatable, and if so, does it come on with the electric motor, or does he start the electric motor, and then engage the clutch?

[Lawngodfather]

Looks as if it was removed and a adaptor/spindel was added

[John DiMartino]

Dino,he removed the clutch,and put an adapter on it.hes got 4 or 5 ,all set up the same,any one can go in any truck.

[Lawngodfather]

Since it is on a 20:1 gear box which is about standard on most gas driven spreader, how many teeth are on each sprocket? Where did he get the parts. All of them look as if they are normal stock somewhere.

Might as well get the part numbers please.

What gauge wire did he run?

Just on/off switch?

[atgreene]

It would definitely need a high amp solenoid. Probably 75 or 100 amp. A starter solenoid would be perfect, as well as a 100 amp circut breaker. Thats a lot of amperage there, with salt and corrosion, its bound to have some issues eventually, make sure it's well protected.

As for chain and spindles etc..., any mill supplier should have it. I've used atlantic bearing here. A buddy of mine works there and found a lot of simpler ways to rebuild my tailgate sander.

The # of teeth would be handy, though, as that is a huge variable. Is he happy with his speed and throw rate? Or would he speed it up/slow it down? I do a lot of narrow driveways, so if I convert my old one I may slow down the spinner a little.

Thanks for the info!

[paponte]

Great idea and work, but that motor I bet is around $400. if not more.

[atgreene]

I'd rather spend 4 or 500 converting to 12v than 400 for a gas engine that won't start or needs gas and constant maint.

That 12 v Downeaster that I bought has sold me on electric. It really is the only way to go. It had unbelievable torque and always starts.

[snowplowjay]

We scrap Dayton and Baldor motors like that often at work. When I get one thats rebuildable I will start saving them and notify you guys if you are interested........


Jay

[John DiMartino]

The motor is under 300 bucks,I think the whole thign could be done for 500-600 depending on what you have laying around for wire,and connectors.

[paponte]

You guys have never had any problems with the electric motors? I don't have experience with one, but I would think corrosion would be harsh on the internal components.

[happy]

That is a great way to go. Does anybody know what manufactures sell v-boxes with electric motors on them? If I don't do a conversion, I just might buy an electric spreader from the manufacture.

[urethane dino]

Here is some of my experience with electric spreaders.
The smith units use a 1/3 hp leeson motor, I have had 1 go bad, and we replaced it with a 1/2 hp leeson. Motor was around 250.00 and solenoid and 6-8 gauge wiring with connectors will be under 50.00. You will need a 12v switch in cab, and some 14 gauge to trigger solenoid. Not sure what you would need for tooth count on the conversion sprockets, but they should be under 75.00 for them.
Amps really are quite low, around 35 at start up and under 30 once at speed. Any starter or high end plow solenoid will work. Jerre used a blizzard relay on our 06 to trigger the spreader.
Corrosion in the motor is rare, the case gets of the motor gets rusty or if aluminum it will have some surface corrosion, but with fluid film around that has been eliminated.
For brands of real v boxes that have electric option, I know of Smith, downeaster, snowway.

[Big Dog D]

Can one of those variable speed "boxes" be used in a set up like this to controls the spinner speed? Does using one of those lead to premature motor failure??

[John DiMartino]

I dont think id try a variable speed controller.To many amps, IMO it to work correctly.I guess you could try it,i would keep it simple and cheap/relaible ,use a small switch triggering an underr hood HD soleniod.

[Big Dog D]

So with this set up it is either full ob or full off? the only way to control the width of the spread pass is through deflectors?

[derekbroerse]

So, if the electrics are running 1/3 to 1/2 hp, why do the gassers come with 8-12hp?

What speed are these motors running at, 1800rpm?

[Chuck Smith]

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?xi=xi&ItemId=1613135706&ccitem=

Here's the motor at Grainger. $292.00

Motor,1/2 HP,12 Vdc
Permanent Magnet DC Totally Enclosed Non-Ventilated Motor, HP 1/2, RPM 1800, Armature DC Voltage 12 VDC, NEMA Frame 56C, Mounting Face/Base, Service Factor 1.00, Bearings Ball, Full Load Amps at Nameplate Volts 39.0, Thermal Protection None
----------------------------------

According to the specs you can use a speed controller.....

~Chuck

[Matthew Bowman]

I'll try to answer some of these questions. I don't have any pics yet, but I'll get some. I have converted two salters to electric. The first one was a gas motor and the second was hydraulic.

The smaller unit was gas powered, 1.5cu/yd. - (2.5cu/yd with top extensions that I origionally ran - when this unit was on the dually. It is now on a 2500srw, therefore the extensions have been removed). This unit got the same motor that chuck posted - but only 1/3HP. Yes, the origional gas motor was 12HP. Obviously gas engine HP and electric motor HP are not equal. And yes, they run at 1800rpm. It is wired with 8 guage. I don't think that just any solenoid will work because they are not made to stay on for an extended period of time. I run a constant duty solenoid, you can get them right at napa. Yes, it has a 20:1 gear box. I have mine geared with a 12 tooth sprocket on the motor, and 48teeth on the gearbox. It took a few tries to get the gearing correct, and now I have it right where I want it. This unit has been used for 3 seasons now. The 1/3HP has no problem. I have had no corrosion related breakdowns. I have replaced one solonoid and it always gets new chains each season. This unit has performed perfectly since I made it electric.

Total cost - just under $400 bucks.
Throwing the gas engine in the dumpster - priceless.

The second unit I just did at the start of this season. The spreader started out as a 4cu/yd airflow - full hydraulic. It was too wide at the top & too tall to fit in a pickup. I cut it down so that it fits in the dually nicely. It now holds 3cu/yd heaped up. This unit has a 2ft wide conveyer and a 40:1 gearbox. I used the same 1/2hp motor that chuck posted above with the same gearing as on the above spreader. When the spreader is real full, the motor lugs down and spins much slower than it should until she lightens up the load a little. I would like to switch to a 3/4hp motor or gear it down even more due to this. Other than that - it works perfectly, just as the other. It is real nice if you really want to lay the salt heavy, due to the 2ft conveyer. I'm not sure on the spinner gearing,because on this unit I made the spinner belt driven. I really like this unit, very heavy duty compared to the pickup units available.

I'll try to post some pics.

On a side note - I recently took the dually over the scales. She was not quite as full as usual, but close. - 16,500# full of fuel/blizzard on.

[Matthew Bowman]

One more thing - I tried using a variable speed controller off of a buyers tailgate spreader. We tried it with the spreader empty, as I had my doubts. It would not start the motor from a stop, even empty. If we got it going by hand, it would then work ok, but you stopped it, it wouldn't get it going again.

Matt

[Chuck Smith]

I always had to use the "burst" to get it going on the Meyers....

I didn't look at pricing, but Grainger has the speed controllers too. Not sure what they look like.

~Chuck

[Lawngodfather]

I would like to switch to a 3/4hp motor

Motor,3/4 HP,12 Vdc $322.75

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?ItemId=1613135719

Also from the looks of it, the motor is a direct bolt on pattern as the gas engine.

[stuvecorp]

Does everyone have that many problems with the gas vboxes? We have a 10' Fisher with the honda and it has been very trouble free (knock on wood). Can the controler in the cab be used with this converstion so the sand/salt can be feathered out differently? Does the electric motor draw alot of power? Just curious to see if this is a more bulletproof way?

[Matthew Bowman]

stuvecorp
If your happy with the honda than I would suggest just keeping it the way it is until you start having problems. I had many troubles running gas power, and I know many others have as well. I absolutly love the way the electric units perform and would never consider a gas powered v-box ever again. This is definatly a more bullet proof way to run a v-box. I have not had a single problem with these electric powered units, and the first one has been in service for 3 seasons now.

Yes they draw quite a bit of juice, but I've never had a problem with the truck keeping up. Both of my electric v-box trucks have blizzard 810's and lots of lights. I have no trouble running all lights on, salter & moving the plow at the same time.

As for the controler in the cab, all you need for electric is a 2 position toggle switch. On or off are your choices. I have mine wired on a long cord that you hold in your hand. It works very nice for spot treatments.

Matt

[atgreene]

Some guys have had good luck with the Honda's, but for the extra money you pay for them, they don't seem to be any more reliable than the Tech. or Briggs engines.

I would never buy another, could have bought a spare Tech. with the sander as a spare for what I paid for the Honda.

Electric is the way to go.

The controler could be used for electric, as it only trips a solenoid. You would not have variable speed, but to be perfectly honest, I don't miss it. If I need more sand down I make another pass, if I want less I close the gate.

[cardoctor]

can we make this a sticky.

john

[Chuck Smith]

It already is :confused: I stuck it on Jan 26, 06.....

~Chuck

[Arc Burn]

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/itemDetailsRender.shtml?xi=xi&ItemId=1613135706&ccitem=

Here's the motor at Grainger. $292.00

Motor,1/2 HP,12 Vdc
Permanent Magnet DC Totally Enclosed Non-Ventilated Motor, HP 1/2, RPM 1800, Armature DC Voltage 12 VDC, NEMA Frame 56C, Mounting Face/Base, Service Factor 1.00, Bearings Ball, Full Load Amps at Nameplate Volts 39.0, Thermal Protection None
----------------------------------

According to the specs you can use a speed controller.....

~Chuck

Am thinking of doing this and notice the damn motor went up almost $100:eek: but seeing how the gas motor is shot i'll probably still go for it.

[snowplowjay]

The equivalent part # in MSC's catalog is $40.00 cheaper

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=18395026&PMT4NO=30302660

:)


Jay

[Bruce's]

Henderson 8 foot vbox. Honda engine. Other then replacing a starter once before the start of a season, and a changing the electric connector. as a fix before it became a problem, we have not had a problem at all with the engine. it's now 5 years old.

Question about people with the electric. I know alot of people don't use metal screens on top, anyone worry that something getting caught on the feed chain, and with an electric motor, it will not have a a give point and just keep trying to pull and burn out the motor?

[Jerre Heyer]

Still running the clutch on the ones we do so that the clutch can engage and disengage as usual. Re wire them so that it turns on the motor when you hit start and keeps it running until the key/ switch is turned off. Then when you hit the spinner it engages the clutch as before.

Jerre

[Matthew Bowman]

When something gets jammed up, it just stops the motor. While this is real bad on an electric motor, ours get jammed and stop the motors all the time -with no failures yet. Our oldest electric spreader is going on 4yrs old.

[Bruce's]

When something gets jammed up, it just stops the motor. While this is real bad on an electric motor, ours get jammed and stop the motors all the time -with no failures yet. Our oldest electric spreader is going on 4yrs old.

Glad to hear it, that was always my biggest wonder about them. We use screens on our salters, and gas engines. but I just always pictured the worest when I looked into electric salters.

[Wizard]

In my limited experience with electric units, the controller detects an overload/jam condition and shuts it down. So in reality, the electric motor is not receiving any juice while not running for more than a second or two. I cant imagine this little bit being incredibly hard on a motor. Now if a guy had an on/off switch on it, with no protection, that may be a recipe for burned up motors, especially when used by the hired help/no common sense type...

[urethane dino]

It is pretty eas to tell if the unit gets jambs or tunnels out. I look in the mirror and if I dont see any material being spread, I shut the unit off to investigate. I do run sreens and have never experienced a jam.
Dino

[alleghenypaving]

we are running a smith mfg. electric spreader,8 ft conveyor..really nice spreader. whats nice about it is you flick a switch @ 5 degrees(bitter cold ) ,and the spreader working.your not dumping gas in it @ 2:00 am to keep it running.let alone keeping your fingers crossed if it's gonna start.needless to say no noise ..this is are 6 th season with this spreader.and only one flight chain and one motor.other than the under tailgate spreader,(hyd.)these are by far one of the best.mine has only one speed,you can control the amount of salt,sand by the drop gate on the rear.throws a real nice pattern.my self ,i would take electric over gas any day.. far as robbing battery from your truck,we installed a aux,battery on the spreader itself.running a wire back to the unit to charge it while in use.. or just driving the truck..we never had a loss of battery power yet.. just my own personal experiance with the gas -- vs electric..

[urethane dino]

alleghenypaving

I have 2 of them, and are not they the best ever.
I will never have a gas unit again.
Dino

[jsaunders]

Has anyone bought older V-boxs and rebuilt them with electric motors........?
Thanks

[SunServicesLLC]

Before i take my 2 spreaders and trucks to beconverted to true hydraulics, i was wondering if anyone thought an electric conversion would be possible on a big 8yd spreader.. Currently i have swenson spreaders with kohler powerpacks and would like to go away from them. Could i replace the kohler with a 1 hp 12v to power the hydro pump? just curious
brian

[SunServicesLLC]

Any thoughts?
Brian

[Wizard]

Any thoughts?
Brian

I think you might need more than a 1hp motor if you're simply replacing the power pack with an electric motor. Most electric setups have separate motors on the spinner and auger/drag chain. In an 8yd I would imagine the weight on the drag chain to be significant, and it may take a big honkin electric motor to move it. My buzz box has a 1/2 hp motor on the spinner, and a 1/2 hp with a 4:1 gear box on the auger. The conveyor has a huge electric motor (I'd have to check the hp, I'm gonna guess 2) that drives a hudraulic pump which runs 2 hydraulic motors. The buzz box takes no where near the abuse of an 8yd unit. So I guess what I'm trying to say, is that it might take a little more than a 1hp electric motor in place of your gas power pack to git er done...

[Clean Cut Lawns]

found a cheaper motor that could do the trick:
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200381906_200381906

$289

56C Face with Removable Bolt-on Base
Sealed Ball Bearings • Reversible • Simple 2-lead connection
TENV-Totally Enclosed Non-Ventilated


any one know if this will work?

[In2toys]

I have a 8' boss vbox I'm pondering switching to electric. After reading the thread, I had a question. On mine the engine drives a v belt to a big pulley on the top of the shaft going into the gear box via the clutch. The spinner disc is driven off a chain from that shaft. Will the electric motor pulley get enough grip on the v belt to drive with a full load? I'm guessing it will because we had grain & hay elevators at home that ran off electric motors & they worked fine. I just wasn't sure if your sanders had the same initial pulley drive or went right from the engine to a sprocket?? thanks for the help

[cardoctor]

converted my vbox to electric over the summer. only problem im having is i need more spinner speed. for all those that has done the conversion what would be the idea spinner speed for doing say a strip mall . im thinking of adding a second motor just for the spinner.

[urethane dino]

You will need a smaller sprocket on the spinner shaft or larger sprocket off the gear box that drives the apron chain.
Ideal spinner speed is task specific.