Salt info. for sidewalk

[snonut12]

I am looking for something that will work good with my Earthway broadcast spreader for salting sidewalk. Obviously Magic Salt will not work because it is wet and will clog up the spreader easily. I am looking for something that meet these requirement.

- dry enough to flow freely
- work better than straight salt
- work effectively in colder temperature
- not as corrosive as straight salt

I'd appreciate it if you could tell me which type of salt that meet/exceed the above list. I know I'd expect to pay more than straight salt, but as long as it is not outrageous expensive.

[gordyo]

This is what I have been using for a number of years on my concrete walks

http://www.cpindustries.net/superior_sno-n-ice.html

[dssxxxx]

Here is the link to the website, but I will also include a little info. Things have not changed a lot since 1992-1994. You find the entire file case at the below link.

http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/cases/environ/Chemphar.htm


This matter concerns claims made for CP Industries' Superior Sno-N- Ice Melter product. The complaint accompanying the proposed consent order alleges, in part, that the respondent engaged in deceptive acts and practices in violation of Section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission Act. According to the complaint, the respondent represented that Superior Sno-N-Ice Melter does not harm or damage the environment; that Superior Sno-N-Ice Melter provides the environmental benefits of CMA; that scientific studies of CMA demonstrate that Superior Sno-N-Ice is beneficial to the environment; and that it had a reasonable basis for these claims. In fact, Superior Sno-N-Ice Melter contains about 95% sodium chloride (i.e., rock salt) which does harm or damage the environment. Therefore, Superior Sno-N-Ice does harm or damage the environment; Superior Sno-N-Ice Melter does not provide the environmental benefits of CMA; and scientific studies of CMA do not demonstrate that Superior Sno-N-Ice Melter is beneficial to the environment. The complaint therefore alleges that the claims are false and misleading and also alleges that CP Industries lacked a reasonable basis for making the claims. The consent order contains provisions designed to prevent the respondents from engaging in similar allegedly illegal acts and practices in the future.

[dssxxxx]

The same info from the FTC.

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/predawn/F95/cpindustries.htm

[BRL]

I have used Calcium pellets in my Earthway with no problems (though I am not sure if your #4 would preclude it's use in your case - Harold would probably know).

I also used Caliber in it with no problems (not exactly sure if that was the one but Chuck Smith would know for sure if he sees this).

[dssxxxx]

How I rate the ice melters for your use.

rock salt - cheap - use bagged, not wet

blends - not as cheap, but usually contain +90% rock salt

mag or cal chloride - in my opinion, the best ice melter for the price. Cal pellets 90-94%, cal flake 77-78% and mag pellets & flake 48%.

Also, use flake is you want smaller area coverage, with no bounce and pellets for larger area and coverage.

[Chuck Smith]

I also used Caliber in it with no problems (not exactly sure if that was the one but Chuck Smith would know for sure if he sees this).

That was bagged Ice Ban treated salt. (I think Mike Nelson had something to do with it). The crystals were all about 1/4", and they spread nicely. Worked well too.

~Chuck

[BRL]

You beat me to it! I just saw another post on the site that had Ice Ban in it & it clicked. That was it, worked great & spread great in the little tailgater (pre vibrator & auger modifications), the Pro Flo 2 & the Earthway & Spyker walk behind sprayers.

[dssxxxx]

I little info about Ice Ban from Virginia DOT.

http://www.virginiadot.org/vtrc/briefs/00-r12rb/Ice_Ban_Flash.htm

[salt shaker]

Harold what is your definition of Pre-wetting, or for that matter VDOT's definition of Pre-wetting? Most DOT's refer to pre-wetting as liquid sprayed onto salt as it is spread out of a hopper, just before it comes in contact with the road surface. Usually involves dry material, a spreader and a liquid tank spray system all on the same vehicle. Is this what they mean?

[BRL]

salt shaker,
Yes they are defining it the same as you & the other DOT's do. From the first paragraph of the link he posted:

Prewetting consists of spraying a liquid freezing-point depressant on a granular material before placing it on the road. The granular material is primarily sodium chloride (NaCl), and the prewetting usually occurs as the material leaves the spreader.

[salt shaker]

Pre-wetting is not the suggested use for any of those types of Liquid. Ice Ban, Caliber, Magic-O, Ice B'Gone, and the like. Calcium and Mag are sold as pre-wetters. The preferred and most effective way is to treat the whole salt stockpile with the liquid before it is put into the spreaders. Be it hours, days, weeks, or months ahead of time. None of these products are sold as pre-wetters, but they can be used that way, but are not as effective in this way as Cal and Mag chlorides.

[sonjaab]

SNO-12.............If your gonna use Magic Salt on the concrete
walks and steps............

I use a modified push along broadcast spreader. Had to do a little
hole modding bcause the Magic pellets are larger than the smaller
mag/salt/cal. stuff and wouldn't "flow".
A little "cobbing and drilling" and it spreads fine....................

I use bagged Magic kept inside and have no clumping issues.
..........geo

[dssxxxx]

Pre-wetting is not the suggested use for any of those types of Liquid. Ice Ban, Caliber, Magic-O, Ice B'Gone, and the like. Calcium and Mag are sold as pre-wetters. The preferred and most effective way is to treat the whole salt stockpile with the liquid before it is put into the spreaders. Be it hours, days, weeks, or months ahead of time. None of these products are sold as pre-wetters, but they can be used that way, but are not as effective in this way as Cal and Mag chlorides.

I have kept my comments, pretty much on subject. But, when you do not know what you are saying, I must step up to the plate.

In regards to your statement, as is quoted above, please refer to this link and do some reading and find out a little about the product you are trying to convince us that you know. When you have read and researched, then you can come back and relay a little knowledge on the rest of us.

Good luck.

http://www.innovativecompany.com/ice.asp

[dssxxxx]

In fact, our moderators should make the link a sticky, so that all the peeps can read about the treated salts available.

[salt shaker]

MAGIC-0 / Ice B' Gone® - is a Proprietary Blend of Magnesium Chloride and Agricultural By-Products. Versatile, Magic-0 / Ice B' Gone® can be used as an anti-icer, deicer or for pre-wetting salt. Because of its' viscosity and "stickiness" properties, Magic / Ice B' Gone® is especially effective as a stockpile pre-treatment.

This was taken right from the URL. Yes it "can" be used as a an anti-icer, de-icer "or" for pre-wetting. "It is especially effective as a stockpile pre-treatment". Which is what I said is it not? In no way shape or form did I say it "can not" be used as a pre-wetting agent. Only that it's most effective use is as a stockpile treatment. How many times can I say it Pre-wetting is not their most effective use. Cal and Mag are to be used most effectivelly for that.

Most snow removal contractors will use straight rock salt. To use pre-wetters they would need to purchase more equipment and carry more weight on their vehicles then they really need to, using a pre-wetting system. "Most" do not want to do that. So the alternative would be to get a product that can be added to their salt and mix it in the stockpile. Allowing them to carry the same amount of salt that they did before, using their same equipment as before. Pre-wetters do not allow that. Yes adding a liquid to their salt will add weight to the salt. At 10 lbs. per gallon, and 8 gallons per ton the increased weight would be only 80 lbs. per ton. We all know that non of us overload our trucks to begin with right? So what is another 160 pounds in a 2 yard spreader? Most pre-wetting systems hold what 50 gallons at the least. So that is an extra 500 lbs. if they went that route and that is on the low side. If you don't fill them all the way then you get the sloshing affect. That is 25% less salt they can carry. Meaning you are not going to go as far with the same truck as you did with even regular salt. More trips back to the yard more unproductive time and more fuel. Pre-wetting is not the best option, but that is not to say that pre-wetting doesn't work. It is just not as cost effective for a contractor.

[dssxxxx]

I'm done...........:waving