Caliber M2000 questions.

[Snowboy]

Seeing as I picked up caliber treated salt I would presume its M2000 that is used to treat the salt I picked up. The salt is from innovative but is stored somewhere else.

How similar is caliber M2000 should I have taken the time to hand bomb it off and go for the magic salt? Will it perform like or as good as Magic salt? Should I still run a comparison see which works best? I'm using the products on driveways 1 Asphalt and 1 a type of flagstone and my drive which is interlocking stone. I'm not sure but I dont think i can get a real comparison of products like as far as useing less treated salt as aposed to un treated salt? I think I mentioned I have some left over liquid from last year its sugar beat juice real thick stuff and it tastes sourish. I think I prefer real molasses on my bread and not this stuff too sour. The liquid was used last year in with regualr rock salt, I made my own mix. I found the liquid worked the best on my interlocking stone drive way when sprayed on before an event. Hard pack would peal up like a carpet when i sprayed the product on my driveway before an event and would melt a light snow fall or if it had drifted a bit. The liquid had residual effect and would work in preventing hardpack to a degrea even if i didnt treat my drive the second time around.

Dave.

[salt shaker]

Snowboy
How similar is caliber M2000 should I have taken the time to hand bomb it off and go for the magic salt?
What is "hand bomb it off" mean? If you are asking if M2000 is similar to Magic Salt the answer is No. M2000 is a Liquid, and Magic Salt is a granular. If you are wondering if you made the right decision? That is disputable. I know a person who used Caliber for many years, and went to Magic-Odegrees liquid instead, after trying it one time. M2000 and Magic-Odegrees are similar meaning they both melt Ice and Snow, and keep it from bonding to the pavement. Which one is better? Again, very disputable.

If you are using treated salt for the first time believe me you will like whatever you use. Just make sure you are comparing roses to roses, not roses to dandylions.

[Snowboy]

What is "hand bomb it off" mean? If you are asking if M2000 is similar to Magic Salt the answer is No. M2000 is a Liquid, and Magic Salt is a granular.

Caliber is made out of M2000 is it not? I was reading on the innovative web site they have caliber in bag form and it is salt treated with M2000. Similar to Magic salt which is treated magic minus 0 correct? Hand bomb is another way of saying to shoevel off or to throw whatever it is you have on your truck. So in my case I could have shiveled the half ton of salt off the trailer and then get loaded up with magic salt.


If you are using treated salt for the first time believe me you will like whatever you use. Just make sure you are comparing roses to roses, not roses to dandylions.

So how do you mean compaire roses to roses? How do you do that? Regular salt and Magic salt Caliber and regular salt. I already know regualr rock salt is junk below 5 deg freezeing. Caliber is calcium based but its magnesiam chloride and only that, unlike magic which is distled brewers yeast and a chloride?


ProMelt Ultra - Caliber® treated salt in a bag. Treated salt with Caliber® M2000 greatly enhances the performance of the salt, especially at colder temperatures. The increased performance, along with the reduced bounce and scatter experienced when using a wetted solid, translates into a reduction of material required. Furthermore, Caliber® Treated Salt will be free flowing regardless of temperature.




MAGIC SALT – Salt treated with a proprietary blend of liquid MAG and distillers solubles. Magic Salt lasts longer, melts faster at lower temperatures than regular salt. Magic Salt also prevents refreezing commonly associated with regular rock salt. Magic Salt with the addition of the distillers solubles is corrosive inhibited, prolonging the life of expensive equipment and infrastructure.

Dave.

[salt shaker]

Caliber is made out of M2000 is it not? No, M2000 is the name of the Caliber Product. Just like Magic is named Magic-O degrees. Caliber is named Caliber M2000, or Caliber M1000. Two different products of Caliber, for two different applications. they have caliber in bag form and it is salt treated with M2000. Similar to Magic salt which is treated magic minus 0 correct? Yes, Magic Salt is Rock Salt treated with Magic-O degrees liquid. So how do you mean compaire roses to roses? How do you do that? Regular salt and Magic salt Caliber and regular salt. I already know regualr rock salt is junk below 5 deg freezeing. Caliber is calcium based but its magnesiam chloride and only that, unlike magic which is distled brewers yeast and a chloride? Compare Caliber treated salt(rose #1), to Magic treated salt (rose #2). Do not just compare regular old rock salt (dandelion), to Caliber treated salt (rose #1), or Magic treated salt (rose #2). The plain rock salt will lose hands down every time. Caliber is not Calcium based for one, and it is not only Mag. Chloride. There is a corn by-product in it also. Magic-O degrees is not brewers yeast, and a chloride, it is the distilleries by-product or (waste), mixed with Mag. Chloride (not just a chloride). All I am sying, in my previous post, is that you need to compare the treated products side by side to get an accurate idea of which is better for your situation. Ordinary rock salt is not a true comparison against these products, as it is definitely outperformed by them. Magic Salt and the Caliber treated salt are much closer in performance. If you are a gearhead, comparing rock salt to Magic Salt or Caliber treated salt is like testing a Lamborghini against a Volkswagon Bug. I think you know which will outperform the other.

[dssxxxx]

This was pretty well covered in this post.

http://www.letstalksnow.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10746

[Snowboy]

Thanks.

So would it be safe to say that both products are pretty much the same? Is it also safe to assume that I wouldn’t see much of a difference in the performance of the 2? The compositions of each vary slightly and are not way off on the scale?

What roles do the Corn by product in Caliber and the brewers distillers by-product in Magic play? What are there purposes, is it to coat the salt so the Mag addictive sticks to the salt crystal or does aid in transforming the salt into being less corrosive?



Dave.

[Chuck Smith]

To briefly sum it up, quoting John Parker (The Magic Man himself) "Caliber is just synthetic Magic". One can be used to treat salt, the other is meant to be used as a spray only, but I forget which is which (1000 or 2000) now.

~Chuck

[Assured Services]

To briefly sum it up, quoting John Parker (The Magic Man himself) "Caliber is just synthetic Magic". One can be used to treat salt, the other is meant to be used as a spray only, but I forget which is which (1000 or 2000) now.

~Chuck

M2000 is for treating the salt stock piles, and 1000 is for spray systems.
2000 is thicker but not as thick is the Magic. Some where on the site there where pics of samples taken by Big Nate.

[salt shaker]

One is a ferarri and the other is a Lamborghini. The corn by product and the Distillers by-product both, believe it or not, melt Ice and snow and also keep it from bonding to the pavement. The Magic does it better, but I guess it depends who you ask. In my experiences I have asked a retired Highway super., and many, many, others, who used both. They said there was something about the distillers by-product that made them use Magic over Caliber. It just worked better. The actual make-up of Magic is 50% Mag. Chloride Liquid (that is cut to 30%Mag. 70% water) and 50% distillers by-product. Caliber M2000 is 80% Mag Chloride liquid (cut to 30% Mag. 70% water) and 20%corn base. M1000 is 90% Mag, and 10% corn base. So yes they use one thing that is similar Mag chloride.

Snoboy, how does that make them pretty much the same? A Ferrari and a Lamborghini use an engine does that make them the same? They got seats, are they the same? It just amazes me that every time these products are talked about, someone always says "well aren't they the same"?. NO THEY ARE NOT! They are made by two different companies using a completely different mixture. And Magic is the only one that is patented!!!:scramble

[dssxxxx]

The actual make-up of Magic is 50% Mag. Chloride Liquid (that is cut to 30%Mag. 70% water) and 50% distillers by-product. Caliber M2000 is 80% Mag Chloride liquid (cut to 30% Mag. 70% water) and 20%corn base. M1000 is 90% Mag, and 10% corn base. So yes they use one thing that is similar Mag chloride.


SS,

I do not know where you got the info above about the percentages used in Magic and Caliber. It would be very useful to have a URL that states your conclusions. Perhaps you could post where you got your information. After many conversations with Innovative, Cargill, etc., they were unwilling to give out the percentages that are used in their formulations and we do a lot of work with both.

As for liquid mag chloride.............it is not cut to 30/70, but the actual formation of liquid mag chloride is 30% solution. Mag is not produced at 100%mag chloride solution and cut with water. Hope this clears it up.

[salt shaker]

That info comes right from Taconic Maintenance, the largest distributor of Magic and Caliber for Innovative. You tell me where they get their info from, I would have to bet it is from Innovative?
Your info about Mag Chloride does not clear it up. I know you stated earlier how Cal Chloride is cut Liquid cal chloride (the way we purchase) is shipped to us 38% in the summer and we cut it ourselves with water to 32 or 30%, depending upon the application and customer. During the colder winter months we order 35% and cut to 32 or 30%. Now I am even more confused.
Is Mag chloride cut the same way? If the solution of Mag. Chloride is 30% Mag and the other 70% is something else, and water is used to cut it, what is the percentage of water so I can state my facts correctly? Last time I knew everthing in this world is made up of something that equals 100%.
Even better, F- the percentages is there Mag. Chloride solution in it? YES. Is 50% of the Magic-O degree liquid Mag. Chloride solution? YES. Is 50% of the Magic-O degree liquid distillery by-products? YES. Why do they not want you to know? because you are a competitor. I don't care who knows what the %'s are, everyone should know. I am not disclosing the type of Mag chloride, which could be a higher solution (that I do not know), or the distillery they get their by-product from. I know that is all secret info. Sorry, PROPRIETERY. I am not in direct competition with you, indirectly Yes, but not directly. You say facts about products you know about and I will state facts about products I know about. I may not have all the %'s of solution or how the solution is cut but I do know what is in the products and that is all that really matters. If someone wants exact solution %'s I will send them your way. O.K?

[salt shaker]

Call me (440) 543-7212 Ask for John Omerza. This way neither of us is hiding behind the computer. I would love to talk to you in person. Honestly one to one would really enlighten me allot.

[dssxxxx]

Call me (440) 543-7212 Ask for John Omerza. This way neither of us is hiding behind the computer. I would love to talk to you in person. Honestly one to one would really enlighten me allot.

If I was hiding behind a computer, no one on this forum would have my webpage. Our webpage has our telephone numbers and addresses posted for all to see.

As far as a competitor, I doubt that we call on or sell any of the same companies and/or customers.

[Grn Mtn]

I ran across this link talking about caliber M1000 and Magic Minus Zero.

http://clearpathproducts.com/caliber.html

[nsmilligan]

Funny they don't mention Caliber M2000, Caliber M1000, according to my distributor, is for direct application, and M2000 is for prewetting or applying directly to salt before spreading. M2000 is slightly more expensive then M1000 here.

Bill
PS The only real difference I found between Magic -0 and Caliber is the Caliber is cleaner ( less solids to get caught in the screen), and more consistent, and I think that come from Caliber being synthetic,and Magic -0 being made from natural components.

[Mark Oomkes]

Anybody have any idea if Magic will react in any way with Caliber?

I might have to give some a try just to see if it really does work that much better than Caliber. But doesn't it stink pretty bad?

[nsmilligan]

When I used Magic -0 and switched to Caliber, had a bit of Magic left, and just mixed the 2 together. The only thing was the Magic had a lot of solids at the bottom of the barrel. There seemed to be little difference in performance.

Bill

[Grn Mtn]

...Caliber being synthetic,and Magic -0 being made from natural components.

But Caliper has a corn byproduct in it, which is why I was drawn to it in the first place, so how can you be calling it synthetic?

[Mark Oomkes]

But Caliper has a corn byproduct in it, which is why I was drawn to it in the first place, so how can you be calling it synthetic?

I had seen this too and it made me wonder. I am looking at an MSDS for Caliber M1000 and it is made up of Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate, Carbohydrate Complex\Corrosion Inhibitor and Water. It is a solution of mag chloride and agricultural byproduct.

[Barger Signs]

Reprint that I typed word for word from my local paper a couple of years ago about Magic Salt (by the way I love the stuff).

A sweet brew for de-icing

By Kathleen Burge and Peter Demarco New York Times.

It was discovered by an Eastern-European scientist at a vodka factory. Deep into a Hungarian winter, the chemist noticed a startling sight: The pond behind the distillery - where the sugary, leftover swill from the factory had collected - never froze.

The chemist figured out how to turn the mash into a potent syrup that could be poured over rock salt to thaw icy roads, and Magic Salt was born.

This winter at least 25 towns in Massachusetts, as well as some colleges and hospitals, are spreading their roads with Magic Salt, from the leftover mash of alcohol distilleries.

Gordon College in Wenham, Mass., began spraying its campus roads with Magic Salt last year.

Although the college spent about the same amount of money as it did on regular rock salt, the roads were less slippery, said Paul Helgesen, director of physical plant operations.

"Overall, most people told us it was a safer campus," he said. "And safety rules."

Officials at Innovative Municipal United States, The company that makes Magic Salt, say that the sweet brown syrup is so environmentally safe that it is edible before it is sprayed on rock salt.

The sticky coating makes treated salt adhere to the road better than ordinary salt, which means that highway officials can use less, they say. And unlike untreated rock salt, Magic Salt works when the temperature dips below 18 degrees Fahrenheit.

"Basically, it's rock salt on steroids," said Brendan Cronin, the Eastern Massachusetts distributor for Magic Salt.

Innovative Municipal does not say where it gets the alcohol residues. Daren Crawford, a sales associate, would only say that the residues arrive on barges from international ports.


Although this does not discuss the magnesium chloride issue I thought all of you might enjoy the article.

Bruce

Dreamin' of a :blizzard

[Mark Oomkes]

Reprint that I typed word for word from my local paper a couple of years ago about Magic Salt (by the way I love the stuff).

A sweet brew for de-icing


It was discovered by an Eastern-European scientist at a vodka factory. Deep into a Hungarian winter, the chemist noticed a startling sight: The pond behind the distillery - where the sugary, leftover swill from the factory had collected - never froze.

The chemist figured out how to turn the mash into a potent syrup that could be poured over rock salt to thaw icy roads, and Magic Salt was born.

Bruce

Dreamin' of a :blizzard

Well, duuh. I'd like it too if it was left over from the vodka factory and turned into a potent syrup. Drink up. :jk

BTW, that college is where Jeff aka Gordyo is employed. Not sure if he works there, but he claims to. :grinz