I guess I was wrong.

[Snowboy]

I was calling for prices on Calcium chloride and magic salt a week ago and one of the calcium dealers told me allot of the Landscapers buy pellet. I've always used flake CaCl but apparently pellet rules. The sales person told me the reason most people by pellete is because it spreads better but now i see it also works better. I didnt see how it would spread better beeing round it would bounce off the ground more then flake. Here is a study I found done on Salt, CaCl, Mag Chloride etc etc.

Maybe someone can post the forum up on here and make a sticky. The page is all in PDF format.

Ice Melt Study (http://www.innovativecompany.com/pdf/ice_melt.pdf)

Dave.

[Chuck Smith]

The other thing about pellets is they "burn in" better than flake, and create the brine beneath the ice / hardpack. The flake tends to try and melt from the "top" down. Bounce is good IMO in parking lots where you need to cover area. Bounce is not good when you are trying to keep the product in a lane while doing 40 MPH. As far as studies and evaluations of various types of products, I tend to look at any done by a manufacturer of a product a little more closely, as they usually are only doing it as a sales hook.

Do a search on Pacific Northwest Snowfighters, and the Salt Institute. I give their results a lot more weight. The US Army has done some studies too. Iowa DOT did a few... Tons of info out there that has no bias, because those doing the studies are not trying to sell anything.

I have all the links somewhere, I will post them.

~Chuck

[Snowboy]

Thanks chuck I'll keep an eye out for the links.

Dave.

[Chuck Smith]

These links originally appeared in Chuck's Snowplowing Newsletter - Volume 1, Issue 1 - October 20, 1999
---------------------------------------------

Special Report 235
Highway Deicing

Comparing Salt and Calcium Magnesium Acetate

Committee on the
Comparative Costs of Rock Salt and
Calcium Magnesium Acetate (CMA)
for Highway Deicing

Transportation Research Board
National Research Council
Washington, D.C., 1991

http://gulliver.trb.org/publications/sr/sr235.html
----------------------------------------------------------

I have this one printed in a 3 ring binder!

This is a GOOD one:
Manual of Practice for an
Effective Anti-icing Program:
A Guide For Highway Winter Maintenance Personnel

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/reports/mopeap/mop0296a.htm#eap4222
------------------------------------------------------------

Program Evaluation Division
Office of the Legislative Auditor
State of Minnesota

Snow and Ice Control
A Best Practices Review (Executive Summary)
May 11, 1995

http://www.auditor.leg.state.mn.us/ped/bp/snow.htm
----------------------------------------------------

Road Management & Engineering Journal
Copyright © 1997 by TranSafety, Inc.
March 1, 1997
TranSafety, Inc.
(360) 683-6276
Fax: (360) 683-6719
info@usroads.com

Winter Maintenance Technology and Practices--Learning from Abroad

http://www.usroads.com/journals/rmj/9703/rm970302.htm
------------------------------------------------------------
These links originally appeared in Chuck's Snowplowing Newsletter - Volume 1, Issue 2 - November 21, 1999
----------------------------------------------------

US DOT FHA
Spring 1995· Vol. 58· No. 4
New Strategies Can Improve Winter Road Maintemenace Operations
http://www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/spring95/p95sp16.htm
----------------------------------------------------
US Roads
Road Management Journal
December 1, 1997
TranSafety, Inc.
(360) 683-6276
Fax: (360) 683-6719
info@usroads.com

Using Salt and Sand for Winter Road Maintenance
http://www.usroads.com/journals/p/rmj/9712/rm971202.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
These links originally appeared in Chuck's Snowplowing Newsletter - Volume 1, Issue #03 - December 26, 1999
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

This one is short.

UA Army Corps of Engineers
Fact Sheet: MANAGEMENT OF EMERGENCY SNOW REMOVAL
http://www.usace.army.mil/snowload/ketchum-fs.html
---------------------------------------------------

Road Management & Engineering Journal
February 11, 1998
TranSafety, Inc.
1-800-777-2338
(U.S. and Canada)
(360) 683-6276
Fax: (360) 683-6719
info@usroads.com

Special Bulletin #26: Snow Removal
http://www.usroads.com/journals/rmej/9803/rm980302.htm
--------------------------------------------------------

Here's one on the History of Snow Removal

Have Snow Shovel, Will Travel
http://nsidc.org/snow/shovel.html
--------------------------------------

Iowa State University
Center For Transportation Research and Education
Thomas J. Donahey and Dennis Burkheimer

Iowa Department of Transportation,
Maintenance Programs Office,
800 Lincoln Way,
Ames, Iowa 50010.

Prewetting With Salt Brine
http://www.ctre.iastate.edu/pubs/semisesq/session1/donahey/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
These links originally appeared in Chuck's Snowplowing Newsletter - Volume 3, Issue # 01 - January, 13, 2001
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pacific Northwest Snowfighters
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/partners/pns/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
These links originally appeared in Chuck's Snowplowing Newsletter - Volume 3, Issue # 02 - February 16, 2001
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Winter Equipment
This company has some VERY interesting products.
http://www.winterequipment.com/
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------

There were many more in my newsletters, but over the years, the links have died. It's a shame, because there was a lot of good info there. I suppose if you do a search on Google just using the term "deicer" you will find a whole new wave of info. Got to stay on top of this game, and that is one thing that will help.

Enjoy the links everyone, it should keep you busy for days!

~Chuck

[dssxxxx]

The Ice Melt Study was pretty good, if not outdated - 1988. But, a good look at Mag vs. Cal, with calcium chloride pellets coming out on top.

Short & sweet:

Mag Flake & Pellets = 48%
Cal Flake = 77-78%
Cal Pellets = 90-94%

The mag pellets from Dow was experimental, when they were pulling there own brine and extracting the mag chloride. They no longer are using their own brine.

Chuck posts some very good sites with comparatives and studies.

One word about The Salt Institute, etc.

Most of the studies are paid for with grants from companies, like Cargill, Morton, North American Salt, etc. They do not just decide to do a comparison between salt and Magic Salt (just using 2 products that we all know). The producers of Magic Salt provide the money to do the study and I can tell you from being involved with various grants, etc., that very rarely does the agency doing the study, come out with bad reports. But any of the comparisons that are good, get really good press - as it should be.

In our business, since we sell a great varity of ice melting products, we also provide the propaganda that best suits the needs of the customer.

When a customer calls and wants mag pellets, we will quote and ship mag pellets. We have found that it is useless to try and talk them inot another product, that "might" be better. When the customer asks our opinion about two products, we will give them our advice and hopefully be able to back it up with some propaganda from the manufacture.

We love studies and comparisons, because if you look long and hard enough, you will find one that supports your requirements and beliefs.

All of the above fluff is JMHO.