POS TORO 3650 Durajunk engine

[asnowsquall]

Last April I stopped by Home Depot and saw a Toro 3650 that was Reconditioned and puchased it for $371 with tax. Sales guy said it possible someone didn't care for it and just brought it back, then H.D. sends it out to a small engine shop were they check it out so that the TORO 2 year warranty can be honored to whoever buys it, in this case me. I'm thinking cool, simple 2 stroke, can't be anything wrong with it, + it's a TORO! Got to use it one time in April I believe and in conked out on me, hmmm, strange. This year two good sized snowstorms and I can't believe how nice it is when it first start up, nice unit. Then after about 5 minutes or so, it starts acting up. At idle it's searching, almost like the mixture isn't right. Under load, is starts loosing power, die's all together, or one time it screamed, one time it was way low. It's not the governor, I tried taking control of the governor with my finger it it won't rev or do anything basically. Weird one. By the way, the carb is black plastic! Yuck! If you let it sit for a while it seems to be OK again. H.D. says they can send it out for repair, but I won't see it for a while. They said better off checking out the local TORO dealer. Looks like a chance to save some $$ is going to turn out frustrating. Ready for a HONDA after seeing the plastic carb. I'm 40years old and it doesn't seem to bad to through in and out of my truck,and I really like this thing when it's running right, + I like being able to control the chute without reaching around for it. Anybody else have this experience? Do I have a lemon? The tech at H.D. said they just sold a new won and it came back for the same problem I'm describing.

[snowplowjay]

I have a one year old 3650 and another older CCR and they both have been flawless. The older one is about 10 years old and it starts as good today as it did when it was new. I serviced it for the first time last year when I broke a recoil. I changed the spark plug and it still runs like a charm. The new 3650 has been terrific and I know that many guys on the site also run them and love them. I stand behind Toro products so I think maybe you just got a bad one out of the bunch. I have ran Toros of all kinds from Dingos, to tri-plexes, and sidewinders right down to 21" pushmowers and have always been satisfied with their performance.



Jay

[asnowsquall]

I know it's just frustrating. I'll get over it and make it work as I always do. Every manufacturing company has a percentage of defects. I have to remember that it is because of this defect that I was able to purchase a $600+ snowblower for $371 with a 2 year factory warranty. This is going to sound weird to some, but I wish I knew the float level as I would check it myself. It's not hard to get to and wouldn't take long. With all the snow we've recieved the local dealer is swamped. I take my hat off to you guys that do this stuff for a living. I'm just dabbling in it as I work for corporate america still. Won't get into that subject....
I'll let you guys know what I find, you never know, someone else may stumble into the same thing as I did.

[urethane dino]

Toro had problems last year with the carbs. Take the unit to a local Toro dealer and have them fix it under the recall.
Dino

[wyldman]

Dino

Any idea what 3650's are under the recall ? I just bought 4 more,and was wondering if they would have the same recall ?

[asnowsquall]

Thanks Mr.Dino. I will bring it to the dealer tomorrow and see what they say. I'll let you guys know what happens.

[snowplowjay]

http://www.toro.com/safety/recall_fulltext.cgi?doc_id=14

Theres the RECALL information

Model Serial Range

38600 210000001 - 210999999

38602 210000001 and 210999999

and the model numbers/serial numbers involved


Im going to look into it more in the morning when I call up Toro.



Jay

[mikegamb]

dump the mix out of the tank and replace the carb.sounds like someone dumped straight gas or oil in.my friend had the same problem with the crapsmen he has.guy who used it before him dumped straight oil in it and tipped it over for what reason i don't know and got the carb all messed up.replaced the carb and the mix in the tank has worked fine for the past two storms.


i think your best bet is what dino said.the carbs are 50 bucks it takes 5 minutes to replace.see if your dealer will give you the carb then do it yourself and give him back the old carb so he can get credit

[WoofsPlow]

The recall refers to cracked gas tanks. I don't beleive this would effect operation (unless it catches fire)omg

[snowplowjay]

Today i contacted Toro and my local dealer. Here is what I have come up with as far as the 3650.


The 3650 recall has to do with a Choke ingestion of snow which chokes out the engine under extreme conditions. Toro produced a small rubber stop that can be PURCHASED if your unit suffers from these symptoms. It is not a warranty RECALL but instead a part that may be purchased if you unit suffers from this constant choking out. The 2004 models have all been equiped with this Rubber stop so they are not effected.



Jay

[wyldman]

I just checked my new ones,and they all have the rubber flap installed.They are 2004 models.

It's just a piece of rubber,like a tire tube.It's 2 3/4 inches high and 5 inches wide with a hole in the center.The hole slides over the choke lever.It could easily be made from an old tire tube.

[asnowsquall]

I didn't have time to make it to the dealer today so I called. He said try dry gas as it may have water in it. If there was any water I think it may be coming into the carb in the form of snow as you guys are mentioning. At another site someone recommended flipping the metal cap which is located on the air input side of the carb upside down. He said the cap is ment to catch gas incase you prime it, keeps it off the ground. Rubber sounds interesting. I've got a mig and some sheet metal I could get real creative tonight. hmmm. do I have a used tube somewhere....
I'll bet thats it because now that I think about it I think the snow was so high I was basically tunneling. Carb could be icing up inside from the snow/moisture particles which would explain why after it sits a little its fine. No more cold air being sucked in,carb defrosts and she runs great again.

[asnowsquall]

Da. I just finally figured out what you are talking about. It's not that actual choke, its the lever. I think that this is the problem too!!!! It's snowing real heavy wet snow after raining all day so I was thinking let me try it now when there is no light snow to fly around. It ran perfect! It was very cold before when I was using it, and the snow was powder, and it was windy so I was getting a little in my face. plus it was deep and I was doing a little tunneling. Well I'm sure it sucked in a little powder around the gap near the lever and froze up the carb. Piece of rubber will fix it easy! Thanks a lot guys. I'll give an update and a picture at some point. The thing is awsome on the wet snow. Would love to do a side by side with the 520A.

[wyldman]

The little piece could be easily made with the dimensions I posted above.If i can find a camera,I'll see if I can post a pic of it,and where it is mounted to make it a little easier.

[asnowsquall]

Check this out,
You can see the part on the 2004's by launching TORO's part viewer https://lookup2.toro.com/partdex/index.cfm?xCaller=Toro
1)entering the model number 38518
2)Choose View Assembly Drawings for the 2004
3)click on "engine and frame assembly".
4)See #34, thats the guard!

repeat and choose 2002 at step 2 and you can see it isn't there.

What gets me is that the people at my dealership are telling me to put dry gas in it. Thanks to the Internet and friendly people we can share the correct information.

Thanks WYLDMAN!!

[snowplowjay]

Yes my dealer was CORRECT. She called me right back and told me what has helped a few of you guys already. Im glad it worked out guys.



Jay

[WoofsPlow]

You would think Toro would test these units under all conditions.

[asnowsquall]

Take a look at the gap for the choke lever and how far away the carb intake is. It's a straight shot. Not sure what they were thinking.

[WoofsPlow]

If someone has some time can they post some pics? Thanks:D

[asnowsquall]

This is how mine looks right now. I stopped by my local dealer and they are out of the rubber part which is $2.03. The manager wasn't there to talk to about if it was a recall. I think I'll just make one myself. This is the problem for sure. Last night wet snow, no problem. Today in Underhill I blew powder, got some in my face and it killed the motor. Choke it and it starts up. You can see where powdered snow got stuck to the plastic on the back panel.
My neighbor with the 8 HP Troy Bilt 2-stage was impressed when I was running circles around him with the 3650. Its was a very impressive performance in today's 7-8" of wet snow. Going to be an excellent maching when I get the slot plugged up.
Dave

[bossplower]

I had 2 Toro ccr2000 for 14 yrs great machines . I have had nothing but problems with my new one, 2001 model

[asnowsquall]

The choke control is different on the older machine. It won't allow snow in. Hmmmm, that's a good idea.

[snowplowjay]

Originally posted by asnowsquall
This is how mine looks right now. I stopped by my local dealer and they are out of the rubber part which is $2.03. The manager wasn't there to talk to about if it was a recall.
Dave



As I stated above IT IS NOT A RECALL. It is a part that was added in this years model and if you are having a CHOKE OUT problem that is the only reason you will need this rubber square.



Jay

[asnowsquall]

Well I purchased a piece of rubber, and cut it to the 2 3/4"x5" piece and installed it. Really easy to do and now that's out of the picture but I ran it tonight and it quit on me again about 3-4 times. I have to put the choke on and a shot of primer to get it to start back up. I'm starting to think the mixture isn't rich enough for the real cold temps. It ran great last night, but it was warmer out. If I put the choke at mid position it runs better. When it's running and I'm not blowing any snow, and it's warmed up it doesnt stay at a steady RPM. It rev's back and forth like the governor is trying to keep it running because the mixture is off a little. In the half choke position it does it but you can hardly notice it. May go out and look for an adjustment screw to see if it has one. I've included pictures of my work, it took about 10 minutes to do. The rubber I used is 1/16" thick, and TORO red so you guys can see it. :)

[wyldman]

That's exactly how it should look.

I think your problem may lie elsewhere though.I think it's time to open up the carb,and check the float level,and see if there is any crap in it.Or,take it to a Toro dealer and let them worry about it.

[mikegamb]

like i said before REPLACE THE CARB ITS 50 BUCKS THEN YOUR DONE WITH THE PROBLEM:D

[wyldman]

Don't replace the carb unless you know that's the problem.There are too many other things it could be,like air leaks,ignition,etc.

[asnowsquall]

I would take it to the local dealer but there is like a 2-3 week wait. Is there a spec for the float height wyldman? I'm not going to spend $50, if the dealer wants to replace it fine at some point.
It must have a mixture screw, how do the know what altitude the snowblower is going to be at? Must have a screw.

[wyldman]

I don't have the spec,but most carbs the float should be level,or parallel with the bowl mounting surface.If it's off,then bend the float tang up,remount the float,and gently push down on it until you get it level.

[mikegamb]

new small engine carbs no longer have adjustments which sucks big time.pull the bowl out and make sure everything is clean.i did the same to my friends carb.cleaned it out put a carb kit in which was a seal one jet and a new float.still didn't work right.it was a 1000 times better but still messed up.replaced the carb and its been runing 100% the past 2 storms

[asnowsquall]

Here are some pictures of the plastic carb. Notice the red arrow pointing to where it had a sticker on it with numbers over the jet. weird...
Haven't popped the bowl off yet. Included the measurements, 3/4" dia., and 1 11/16" width for mount holes. A picture of a carb off of a suzuki motor or other ccr's would be cool. Wouldn't mind finding a metal carb with adjustments on it. Does the owners manual say anything about running it with the choke at the half position in cold weather, I have no manual. I have full resolution pictures if anyone is interested.

[asnowsquall]

This is along the line that I'm thinking. They are running it lean maybe to meet the EPA regulations. Read this stuff http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums...4000111581.html

[asnowsquall]

Sorry, that's http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/lmower/msg0914000111581.html

[wyldman]

Since you have the carb apart,clean it up before you put it back on.

I would try it again,with some Opti-2 synthetic 2 stroke mixed at 100:1

These motors run so lean,that if the mix is a just a little heavy (too much oil),they run terrible.

Too much oil makes the engine run lean.The jet sizes are fixed,so when you have more oil in the mix,less fuel get through,and it runs lean.

I noticed a big change in idle quality and overall power when i switched them over to synthetic.

[asnowsquall]

I will clean it for sure. I'm not sure if TORO's 2 stroke oil is synthetic or not. I wouldn't mind putting a metal carb with adjustments on it. The EPA wouldn't like it, but I'll bet I could dial it in. I don't think it will be to much longer before the 2 stroke will be gone, but that's another discussion. You guys with the older TORO's with adjustable carbs may want to keep them. Anyone with a carb the has dimensions like the one in my picture, let me know.

[asnowsquall]

Well I cleaned the carb, it wasn't bad at all. Used an air gun in all of the ports and stuff. Has a cork for a float. Also picked up a 1985 TORO S-620 for $70 to use or resell and it has an adjustable carb. Will have to see how the 3650 runs in the next snow storm. Santa brought me a SONY DSC-F717 for Xmas and I love it.

[wyldman]

Did you check the float level ? Was it off at all ?

[asnowsquall]

It looked like if it was off it was very little. When the float was up so that the fuel valve was closed the float wasn't parallel to the bowl sealing surface (bottom of the carb.), it was still hanging down slightly, so I gave it a small tweek which should increase the amount of fuel in the bowl. Fingers are crossed. Runs good still, but we need another snow storm so I can check it out. The snow we still have is pretty crusty. Could go north and find some snow. hmmm....

[asnowsquall]

Purchased a 1995 TORO CCR 2000, with electric start for $150 the other night, which at this time of the year is a deal in my book.
This guy gets snowblowers that the TORO dealer and Agway doesn't want to mess with, fixes them and sells them. Well he had a carcass, basically the auger and housing assembly, and motor and carb that he threw in for parts for $20!! This one is a 1996. Both of these unit have the Suzuki motor in them. Now that I can see these machines, I can understand where TORO got their reputation. What a beautiful, simple engine. I've got a good feeling that the carb from this motor would work on my 3650 and it's a Mikuni. I compared the carbs between the 2450 and 3650 at toro's web site and they are the same part number, they use the same part number for the Nozzle and main jets. They list the part number for the pilot jet on the 2450, but not the 3650. Will check with the dealer and see if they have that info. Still waiting for snow here. It's friggin cold, been hanging around zero.

[asnowsquall]

Had to do some modifications to install the Mikuni Carb, but I ran it for a good 15 minutes lastnight and it was about 5 degrees out and it never quit. It surges real bad when there is no load but I know something that will help that. Right now the throttle can completely close, when this carb is on the Suzuki there is a low idle screw. I had to use that part to limit the wide open position. I just need to add a screw, spring, and nut to have a adjustment for the low idle/stop point. I used my finger do this and it stopped the surging. For me this kind of stuff is fun. EPA side note, this motor and setup will be used for competition snowblowing ONLY! It will not be for normal snowthrowing. I'll try posting better pictures later. If you want to do the samething, it helps to have a mig welder. The intake cup will most likely get flipped over to the correct position. Still need to work on the choke control, which shouldn't be to bad.

[TLS]

Bringing this back up to the top.

I have a brand new 3650.

It does NOT have the rubber flap around the choke lever.

It has a model year 2005 serial number. If you follow the instructions on the TORO website, it only shows this rubber flap on the model year 2003's.

I do have a piece of thin rubber that will easily work, but wonder why TORO did not include this in later years.

[wyldman]

I would put it on,just in case.It only takes a few seconds to do it,as the rear cover is held on by two small screws.

One other thing to do is write down the serial number,and keep it safe.The rear plastic cover tends to rub through the serial number decal and wipes out the number.

[Beast12]

My dad just bought a 3650 (I am pretty sure) from the local Toro dealer. He wanted a Honda but they were not able to get anymore until the end of the year?!?! Weird!

Anyways, he went through a big pile of snow with it (a big NO NO!) and then it bogged out. He was not able to start it back up. I told him maybe something got frozen or got snow in it and told him to put it in the cab of his pickup. 30 minutes later he brought it out and it started up fine. Now, I have not looked for this rubber piece but seeing as how it is a BRAND new unit should it have it? If not I guess I will have to get him to order it!

I also do not like how this machine is either on or off. No idle lever. Isn't that not good for a motor shutting it off when revving full throttle? It goes against EVERYTHING I was taught growing up! :(

He picked up this blower for $1080 CANADIAN. Good price or no?

-Matt :canada:

[Assured Services]

Welcome Matt. Hows things over on the other side of the pond.
:canada

[Beast12]

Things are good over here. Been getting some good snow. Except this week is supposed to be "nice" out. Too bad, I am ready to go plowing again. I am all rested up! :D

-Matt :canada

[Beast12]

Well, we ended up getting those pieces of rubber from the Toro dealer in town. I put them over the choke and then put the cover back on. It seems like the rubber is causing the choke leaver to bind up. Is anyone else having that problem? Or am I doing something wrong?

-Matt

[wyldman]

Are you sure that is the cause ? Take it off and try it again,making sure it's properly installed.Rolling it to curve it a bit helps it.Making sure the rear cover is properly installed is important too.The bottom part must sit up on top of the lower cross tube,so it's locked into place.

[Beast12]

Just wanted to update this thread. I left those pieces of rubber rolled up all summer with some tape around them. I installed them just before our first snowfall. They have worked fine in every snowfall. One of them I was blowing a foot of wet snow. Worked pretty good (no one had walked on it yet). ;)

We have been wanting to get another blower so we have one for each truck. Went to the Toro dealer and took a look. They are discontinuing the 3650. :( But, since they are they had one sitting there that was discounted. Regular price is anywhere from around $950-1080 new. This one was $650 BRAND NEW! Grabbed that one quickly! :rockon

-Matt