Western Snowplows Discussion: 11/7 - 11/11

[Western]

Welcome to the 2005 Western Products Discussion!

Once again, Western has opened this thread to discuss any technical issues, as well as answer any product-related questions regarding our snow and ice control equipment.

In addition, we encourage any feedback you might have regarding new product requests/ideas and future improvements.

We will strive to answer all posts in a timely manner. We thank you in advance for your participation and look forward to your comments.

[Garagekeeper]

Glad to see you back again this season.
:rolleyes: John...

[Chuck Smith]

Any plans for an electric V box spreader?

Any plans for a stainless moldboard?

~Chuck

[bud16415]

Hi welcome to LTS

Can you tell more about who you are or in what capacity you work for Western.

I see Chuck beat me to the questions. What’s new on the Western product offering?

[Western]

Chuck,

No plans for either one of those products for the upcoming season although we will continue to look into the feasibility of products like this.

Western Products
Technical Service

[Western]

Bud,

We work in Technical Service at Western. There is more than one of us monitoring these sites but we all work in the TS department.

For new product offerings there probably will not be anything as far as this season is concerned. Anything new that we would have would be annouced on our website. The other place to look for new products would be at the NTEA show early in '06.

Western Products
Technical Service

[ratlover]

First I must say thanks for dropping by here! :waving

Second I must say thankyou for listening to all of us gripe about the fishstick set up for the V blades. No offense but the original sesign really sucked! New version is much better but anyway you could just go out and copy the Boss design? ;) I have ran a boss and bought a fisher and have ran my dads western V and the boss controller still seems easier to use than the western/fisher unit.

I do have a question. Fisher says its OK to run pro wings on thier blades right? Why are you not supposed to run pro wings on a western/fisher V then? I have a 9.5' EZV on my 2500HD Chevy and my dad has a 9.5 westernV on his f550 ford. Interested in sticking wings n em since I cant drop the cabbage for a blizzard. I do mostly lardge wide open comercial.

BTW speaking of blizzard congrats on the aquisition! I hope you guys all lean on each other and encorperate the designs of all 3 lines to build a better product(I'm sure you will).

Oh.....and I still think a wireless controller that has a base in the truck that charges it/can be uesed to control it if the wireless dies would be cool. Just make sure you put a homing button on it so the controller beeps/flashes when my truck tries to eat it:grinz

[Western]

ratlover

Western does not recommend the use of aftermarket wings on any of our plows. At this point the only plow that we offer wings for is the PRO PLUS. I can't speak for Fisher so I don't know if they say wings are ok or not.

Western products technical service

[BgGrg]

Thank You for answering questions on the web site. My question is about your two winter warentee. I have a 8ft polypro that has one season on it. The lift cylinder blew and my dealer had to replace it. Why did I have to pay out of my pocket and wait to see if Western will pay for it? You can look at the plow and see it is in excellent condition and well taken care of. I have never had this problem with any of my other western plows. Will western pay for the labor and the part or just the part? If my plow has a 2 winter warentee the plow should be fixed without me having to pay money out of my pocket. Western and my dealer blew a sale because I just bought a Blizzard Plow for my new skid steer.

[ratlover]

Just curious, why do you not recomend aftremarket wings(pro wings in particular) on your 9.5V? Is it that you just havent done any testing on thier addition or is there something you can see as probably being an issue? Thanks:)

[Western]

BgGrg,

The two winter warranty covers parts and labor for 2 years from the original date of sale. Our distributors may choose to offer warranty on the spot if they are confidant the failure is a factory defect. If not, they are required to submit the part for factory evaluation and testing where the claim is either approved or denied.

Western products technical service

[Western]

ratlover,

There are several reasons why aftermarket wings are not recommended. You are correct on the first one in that we don't test our plows with aftermarket components. Two, the blade was not designed for the additional load that wings add. Three, wings also add additional weight to the front end of your vehicle possibly exceeding its fgawr.

Western products technical service

[mattg]

I will understand of course if you are unable to answer this but perhaps you can shed a little light on the question burning in everyones mind.
What will happen with blizzard and are we likely to see red plows with expanding wings soon?

[Pickering Snow]

Dear Western

I have a question concerning MVP's yesterday a good cust of mine stopped in for a vech inspection on a 03 hd 2500 pickup the dealer that was selling it had a Mvp installed. My question is why is it on that blade the cutting edge stops on this plow 1/4 inch from the mould board leaving the mould board skin exposed during curb scraping , i told him he may wat to have the western dealer look at it if he buys the truck has maybe its just this unit.
however in 03 i purchased a MVP 8.5 which was not gaped has bad but still offered no protection to the mould board skin. After 6 months of plowing with mine and a respone from my western dealer that it was normal design i welded 1/4 inch side plates to mine of course i was also told damage that had occured to my mould board was normal wear and tear and they could do nothing. My other question would be is like the blade i looked at yesterday had a contractor grade decal on it. Most all commerical accounts i have require clean curb scraping and theres no way in its current conditon would this provide that action without damaging the skin. just curious i elected to trade off my Mvp has i felt i had heard the normal wear and tear one to many times. thanks in advance.

[Western]

mattg

Immediate plans for Blizzard are business as usual. Same holds true for red plows.


Western Products
Technical Service

[Western]

Pickering Snow

There is a small amount of adjustment on the cutting edges. Did you try to loosen the bolts and move the cutting edge over as far as it goes? The play between the bolts and holes may be enough to bring the cuting edge inline with the edge of the moldboard.

Other wise there are aftermarket curb guards available. Would curb guards be something you would be interested in if Western was to produce them for our straight blade and v-plows?

Western Products
Technical Service

[snowplowjay]

Western,

First off thank you for your continued tech support here on the site each winter... It would be nice if you came back for a week of post season followup in say April or May.........

I would like to make a suggestion for your moldboard treatments....

Over the years the Western blades which we run in our company undergo lots of use and I have noticed one area which I think Western should address when painting/treating their blades at the factory. I have discussed this with a fellow member who services/sells your equipment who is here on the site and he has seen the same concerns.....

At the base of the blades on the lower horizontal support tube which lies at the base of the blade on the smaller blades I have found this to be the main area for concern as far as corrosion and it is the most difficult place to keep treated from the elements. (the area behind the cutting edge on the plating that faces the pavement).... I treated my blades with Fluid Film trying to cut back the corrosion since keeping any kind of paint on this area seems to be a tough task due to its location.

It would be nice if this area came treated beyond just the powdercoating from the factory. Perhaps with some sort of a POR15 type coating.... I feel that this would prolong the life of the blade and prevent a boat load of corrosion issues on these blades.... I realize that Powdercoating is the material of choice for its environmentally friendly properties but in future technology it would be nice to see this area better treated......

It may be hard to figure exactly the area in which I am talking that I see this being a problem I can try and get some sort of a photo of the area if I get a chance.......

THANKS!!!!

Jay

[ratlover]

I would like to see curb protection built in. Or maybe make it easy to bolt on a urathane chunk to act as a curb gaurd?

How much would galvanizing a blade and then hosing it down red add to the cost or is that way to far out there? :beatsme

[ratlover]

And I know its hard for you to go out on a limb for liability reasons ect;) but if one were to add a set of aftermarket pro wings to a 9.5 V if there were issues with the blade what do you see them being in regards to tearing up the blade? Just trying to make a somewhat informed decision;)

[Mark Oomkes]

I would like to see curb protection built in. Or maybe make it easy to bolt on a urathane chunk to act as a curb gaurd?

I think you hit on something, Philip. As far as I know, this is a problem with all current designs. We have been using curb guards of one sort or another for close to 15 years. Blizzard's urethane edge comes 'standard' with a curb guard. Boss just started making edges with curb guards built in.

Western, I would like to see it as an option as long as it is reasonably priced. Same thing with urethane edges as an option. (Just as an example, Boss's new scraper edges are outrageously priced, IMO, for things that we have been doing for years because they didn't\wouldn't. Not to mention their edges last half as long as the ones we had made up with the extra options.)

[bud16415]

IMO if you are designing, building and selling a piece of equipment that is to be used in a commercial environment each and ever aspect of that equipment should be designed and tested to some life span in normal use. When those life spans are reached the part that is designed to wear should be designed to be easy to replace. This should include anything that moves metal on metal or metal against the environment.
Once again IMO there is way to much cutting and welding going on as I read in the posts here when things stop working.
All the plow manufactures have had years and years to evaluate what the marketplace wants and is doing on their own. Everyone speaks highly of U edge on here and to take a rough guess I would say 60% of the forum would never go back to steel for their applications. Why isn’t there a plow totally designed around the U edge concept.

I don’t want to answer for Fred but the idea of using the manufacturing tolerance in the mounting holes to shift parts around doesn’t sit well with me. Those oversized holes were never intended to be used as adjustment holes but to compensate for tolerance stack up in the mating part. It would seem a simple matter at very least to make the cutting edge length such that no mater how the bolts went in, the edge would be flush to slightly extended if that would make a better plow

[Western]

Snowplowjay,

Our powder coating system underwent a major overhaul several years ago. We are confidant that the new system will greatly improve the corrosion resistance of our plows.

Western products technical service

[Western]

Ratlover,

Unfortunately it would be pure speculation to predict exactly what premature failure(s) could occur due to the addition of pro wings. It is not recommended by Western and the decision is up to you.

Western products technical service

[Western]

Mark Oomkes,

Western is constantly looking into the feasability of offering products such as curb guards. Keep an eye on our website and at the NTEA show for new product releases.

Western products technical service

[Western]

Bud16415

Thanks for your posting. You are correct in say that the holes were never meant for adjustment but are for allowable tolerance stack up.

In any case I will take your suggestions and pass them along to the appropriate personnel

Western Products
Technical Service

[wyldman]

A simple wrap around cutting edge (like Boss now has),or a welded on curb guard (like on the Blizzard wings) would help protect the edges of the moldboard.They tend to get pretty beat up after running a few curbs.

The other thing I would like to see (and it has been mentioned before),is a universal style mount.Keep it clean and simple,and tight up under the truck.Ground clearance is becoming a big issue on these newer trucks with lower ride heights.Make a mount that can be used for a Fisher,Western,or a Blizzard.Even if just the truckside is the same,with different "ears" used to mount different plows.Saves changing the whole thing if you change blades.

Design better wiring\relay setups,so they aren't so damn complicated.The current Isolation modules don't really isolate,they are just a bunch of relays in a sealed box,switching the factory headlamp power to the plow.ISOLATE the plow from the truck.

Build a setup that uses BATTERY power,and just use the truck headlamps to trigger it.Same for the running lamps.Saves wear and tear on the headlamp switch,and makes the headlamps BRIGHTER (which is a big problem with today's plow lamps).

[nsmilligan]

Just a comment after reading the posts, how far we've come! I remember the days of the old site where this thread would have degraded to bashing, I actually think that there are real world questions and answers being posted.
As for Chris's comments, I like the idea, now that Douglas owns all 3, of having a common truck mount for all 3 brands, I for 1 would buy a blizzard, because of the extra money I could make vs my V, but if I didn't have a V to punch through some of our now typical "blizzards" I couldn't plow at all! I would have no problem investing in a second plow for the same truck and switch as needed.
As for the isolation module, having switched last year from the old relay setup, to the new isolation module, the installation of the module was as simple as it can get for installation, but relays do isolate, hte power only activates the coil on the relay (milliamps) and the current to run the headlamps goes through the contacts, I 've noticed NO difference in current to the headlamps, and I run Euro 165x100 H4 lamps in place of the standard sealed beams that came with the plow, also the H4's are 2500K yellow blubs which are awesome in snow.

Bill

[Mark Oomkes]

Good point Chris, decent, bright headlights.

[mattg]

The "universal" mount has got to be one of the best ideas I have seen on this forum. And so far as headlights go, the brighter the better. Brilliant!!!

[William B.]

Western- Good to have you on the site! I currently do not have a plow but have been looking for a Western for a while. I have a couple questions regarding the mount on a Chevy.
1) With the Ultramount the tow hooks have to be reomoved, is there a way to reattach those to the mount?
2) If the hooks can't be reattatched I am assuming that pulling against the mount would be a bad idea.

I also have a couple questions about the plows and warranty info.
1) Does putting on the Pro Wings void the 2 year warranty, or is that left up to the dealer?
2) Does the plow have to be installed by a dealer for the warranty to be valid or could I do it myself and still have a valid warranty?
3) Seeing that Western does not recommened wings for any plows other then the Pro Plus, is Western going to work on designing factory wing for the Pro Series? I think that if Western were to do this, that they should be made to adapt to the older Pro Plows.

Thanks for your time

William

[wyldman]

As for the isolation module, having switched last year from the old relay setup, to the new isolation module, the installation of the module was as simple as it can get for installation, but relays do isolate, hte power only activates the coil on the relay (milliamps) and the current to run the headlamps goes through the contacts, I 've noticed NO difference in current to the headlamps, and I run Euro 165x100 H4 lamps in place of the standard sealed beams that came with the plow, also the H4's are 2500K yellow blubs which are awesome in snow.

Bill

If the plow lamps are truly isolated from the truck,then where do they get power from ? There is no battery feed to the module,so they are not isolated.The relays,or iso module work one in the same,and just redirect the original headlamp feed to the plow lamps.When you add more wiring (too small IMHO) and more contacts\connections,you get more voltage drop.

Bill,just do a simple test with a DVOM,and you will see.Turn the headlamps on,and measure the voltage at the plowlamp connectors.You will see quite a voltage drop.

[ratlover]

I know its like chevy and GMC.....some people like the looks/style of one or another ect. So keeping seperate product lines might make sense. I dont now about a universal mount.....dont see that flying well but a universal douglas mount and wiring ect would be cool and a good thing for biz too IMO. Being able to take my truck and put anything from a 7.5 fisher to a blizzard 8611 low pro would be sweet. And alow people who run fleets to pick and chose to run douglas owned stuff. Make the controlers all swap ect too. Now I know it may be a PITA for the electronics for a V to work with a blizzard but IMO it shouldnt be that hard to get it set up were one "isolation moduel" ect works for everything and you just have to plug in the appropriate controller and hook up a blade.

I also dont care much about brighter plow lights. But if LED flashers could be built into the head gear(seperate from turnsignals) I would like that if it was a reasonable cost option. You could put a simple pigtailed wire that needs 12V to turn em on so people could tie into thier other warning lights. Something for front/partial side warning. And LED tipped light up side markers that run with the running lights would be good too IMO. Helps other traffic see your blade.

And how about rubber snow deflectors that are big, dont cost an insane amount of money and bolt on easy?

Speaking of deflectors.....the center metal deflector on the V's needs to be bigger IMO

And a way to grease the center pin on the V's would be nice too.

Maybe on the angle stops instead of making it a firm stop make a rubber timbren deal or a short fat spring so it has a wee bit of give before it uses the stop. Might save some wear and tear on the blade and save some warantee work.

[Western]

Wyldman

We are investigating different possibilities for curb guards and we appreciate your comments.

Although having a "universal" mount that goes between different plow brands sounds like a good idea, I don't think it will become a reality. Having different mounting systems helps distinguish brand identity.

I think everybody would agree that brighter lights are a good thing and we are actively looking into ways for improved lighting of our product.

Western Products
Technical Service

[Western]

William B.


1)If the tow hooks can remain in place or be re-installed with out any modification then we would do so. If it would require modification to re-install then we can not recommend that practice.
2)You are correct that pulling against the mount is not a good idea. The mount was not designed to be used for that purpose.

Warranty Questions
1)The Pro wings would not necessarily void your warranty unless the damage or failure was directly related to the Pro wings. I.E. if the blade is damaged where the wings would attach it would probably not be covered under warranty. On the other hand if something fails that has nothing to do to with the wings it will more than likely be covered. For example if a cartridge valve fails which has nothing to do with the wings, it would be covered.
2)The plow does not have to be installed by a dealer for valid warranty. However, it is the same situation as the wings. If the failure is caused by the installation then it would not be covered. For example if you forgot a bolt or did not tighten a fastener and some damage occurred it would not be covered. This holds true for no matter who installed it, you or a dealer. If the failure is directly related to poor installation then it is the responsibility of the installer.
3)If Western ever decides to develop wings for the Pro series plows I agree that, if possible, should be made to adapt to older Pro plows.

Western Products
Technical Service

[mattg]

Has Western given any consideration to full seam welds on the moldboards rather than the extended tack welds on them now? I can only imagine that this is a cost saving measure, or a way to keep the steel from warping from the extra heat, but there is really something to be said for the strength of a full seam weld.
Thanks for your answer.

[bud16415]

Has Western given any consideration to full seam welds on the moldboards rather than the extended tack welds on them now? I can only imagine that this is a cost saving measure, or a way to keep the steel from warping from the extra heat, but there is really something to be said for the strength of a full seam weld.
Thanks for your answer.


Matt

I’m pretty sure they do it for both cost and also heat. It was brought up also in the fisher thread and I talked about using a seam sealer before paint and the problems with intermittent welds propagating rust.

[Western]

mattg


When a plow is designed, we look at how much weld is required to give the plow the required strength. Adding full seam welds may increase the strength but it is unnecessary. So adding extra weld would be just that, adding extra weld that really isn’t needed.

Western Products
Technical Service

[Western]

To all members of let’s talk snow,

Thank you for the opportunity to participate in your forum. I hope that we were able to help a few of you this week. We appreciate all of your support. Best of luck this season!

Western Products

[Chuck Smith]

Thanks for giving us this great opportunity.

~Chuck

[wingman]

Western- Good to have you on the site! I currently do not have a plow but have been looking for a Western for a while. I have a couple questions regarding the mount on a Chevy.

1) With the Ultramount the tow hooks have to be reomoved, is there a way to reattach those to the mount?

Thanks for your time

William

Hi everyone!

I'm a "recreational" plower for a few years and have lurked the site off and on for just as long.

I've 'upgraded' my truck/plow this year to something built in this decade (yea!). I've searched the site but haven't found a concrete answer. Has anyone performed this mod and if so, how much work is involved? I really hated to give up my front hooks...

2001 GMC 2500HD
Western 8' Pro Ultramount

Thanks for the great site Chuck!

Mark

[wyldman]

You can reuse the factory tow hooks, but they require some modifications. You need to machine down each side, so it fits inside the u-shaped spacer in the frame rail. You will also have to use new hardware,(2 bolts),or drill it out to use the single thru bolt. The rear bolt will need to be removed and replaced with one that fits into he tow hook as well.Some of the older u-shaped spacers had a bushing welded into it to prevent it from crushing the framerail. This will need to be removed.

I usually make my own u-shaped spacer, but one that goes much deeper into the framerail,and catches the rear tow hook bolt as well. Spreads out the load much better and prevents the lower frame real from tearing out over time (which they all do).

You can also use a universal tow hook (like the ones that go into a hitch).Slide it into the frame,and mark where you need to drill the hole for the bolt,and drill it it out. You may need to add some shims to either side so it's a tight fit.

[wingman]

Thank you, Wyldman!